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Topic Dog Boards / General / Animal Welfare Act
- By Lois_vp [gb] Date 08.11.06 07:51 UTC
The new Animal Welfare Act comes into force in April 2007 and will require pet owners to take reasonable steps to provide their pet with the things it needs for a happy life.  The RSPCA hopes this will help to prevent the soaring levels of animal abuse and neglect.
Basically the new law requires owners to provide their pet with
     A proper diet
     Access to water
     A suitable place to live
     House them with; or apart from other animals as neccessary
     Ensure they are able to express normal behaviour
     Protect them from pain, suffering and injury

I'm wondering how this will be enforced/monitored.  For example how would the RSPCA know that an animal wasn't getting a good diet and access to fresh water ?  :confused: Or wasn't able to express normal behaviour ? :confused:  How will such cases come to their notice ?
- By Annie ns Date 08.11.06 08:09 UTC
Presumably it will just give the RSPCA wider powers to intervene when suspected abuse cases are reported?
- By Lois_vp [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:26 UTC
I was hoping that the new Act would target owners who maybe weren't being intentionally cruel or neglectful, more just being thoughtless or having other priorities.  I'm sure we all know of animals who don't have good quality lives - they may not be being beaten or whipped but perhaps they're left tied up for hours on end never seeing anything of the outside world or deprived of human company.  It would be great if the Act could make a real difference to them.
- By Val [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:20 UTC Edited 08.11.06 08:23 UTC
Ensure they are able to express normal behaviour
I wonder if that includes dogs being able to chase prey? ;)  Hunting is normal behaviour for hounds, isn't it?  Terriers chase and catch vermin?

Protect them from pain, suffering and injury
And I've seen more Vets cause pain and suffering than owners over the years.  All in the name of 'helping and healing' of course.  There are many cases when I would have my dogs pts rather than subjected to long and painful operations and recoveries. :(

I will watch this act with interest.
- By Lois_vp [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:27 UTC
There are many cases when I would have my dogs pts rather than subjected to long and painful operations and recoveries.

Good point, Val.
- By Val [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:36 UTC
The problem is agreeing on what is 'right'. 

All of us on here obviously love our dogs, but even we don't agree on the right and wrong way to feed and care for our dogs.  I'm of an age where I consider that there are rarely right and wrong ways, just different ways, except for extreme cases, although I obviously think that my way is more right! ;)  :)
- By sara1bee [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:42 UTC
why didnt they include regular exercise? what about all the poor dogs that are never taken out?:mad:
- By Lois_vp [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:43 UTC
Totally agree, sara1bee :)
- By Val [gb] Date 08.11.06 08:47 UTC
Open to interpretation again.  Someone might consider their garden a big enough exercise area for their breed - another person may not. :(

I would put human contact on the list too.  I don't consider exercising and feeding a dog to be enough when mental stimulation, human contact and basic training is neglected.  Others are happy to keep their dogs in kennels, well fed and exercised with the company of other dogs and the minimum of human contact.   Who's to judge?

It's a very difficult subject. :(
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 08.11.06 09:11 UTC
Again, who decides what would constitute 'adequate human contact'? Most large boarding and rescue kennels would immediately become illegal.
- By Val [gb] Date 08.11.06 09:21 UTC Edited 08.11.06 09:30 UTC
I wouldn't disagree with that! ;) :D  But rescue kennels make people feel good so they must be OK??????? :(
- By Nikita [gb] Date 08.11.06 13:07 UTC Edited 08.11.06 13:09 UTC
I would hope that exercise would come under "expressing normal behaviour" - running is normal behaviour, after all.  The constant pacing, whining and attemting to open doors that my brother's dog does through a complete lack of exercise is not normal IMO, but there's that word again - opinion!  This act will be tricky I think, I wonder how many cases are going to show up in the press under huge debate because someone has interpreted a particular part differently to someone else.
Exercise could also be conceivably policed (though dog knows how) under the "free from suffering" part - dogs cooped up indoors get frustrated and suffer that way.
- By Ory [gb] Date 09.11.06 13:01 UTC
I agree with you!!! I can't stand people who keep their dogs inside at all times and poor creatures never get to see other dogs, traffic or people...... just imagine what happens when the owners realize that they can't take care of the dog anymore and take him to the shelter. Who is going to adopt a completely unsocialized dog that's completely out of control? :mad:
I have to say that I support Italian law that says dogs have to be taken out for a walk at least twice a day....... now, I'm not completely sure how they actually supervise all the owners in the country :rolleyes:, but I guess if a neighbour reports you, they actually have to investigate and it's within their power to give that person a fine. I don't think it's a bad idea!
- By supervizsla Date 09.11.06 13:19 UTC
If that was the law that you had to take your dog out twice daily. I would probably be fined a million times over. I can only just get my little dog out for a walk once a day - let alone twice daily (but on the other hand her only walk is 1 1/2 hrs long) .
I would like to see animal welfare laws better and more well equipeted to prosocute those owners who mistrete their animals.
- By Ory [gb] Date 09.11.06 13:27 UTC
I think this law came out as strict because there many, many cases of animal abuse in Italy. Now, I think that if you have a big garden, live somewhere out of the city, once a day is more than enough (even if you skip a few days in a week it's okay ;)). But imagine some people that live in flats and make their dogs use them puppy pads and they hardly ever see the outside world!!! I think that is just a typical case of animal abuse!! :mad: But that's just me .....
- By mum2molly [gb] Date 09.11.06 14:14 UTC
I'd just like to stick up for flat dwellers with dogs.  I know Ory that you are talking about people who don't exercise their dogs and let them have a good run, but I live in a flat and Molly uses piddle pads.  We do go out everyday to the park where Moll has a good tear around (she's useless at recall - beagle/basset cross! so she's always on a long 20foot training lead and when there are no other dogs about I do let her lead go so she can chase her ball properly).  I'd hate anyone to think that I was mistreating her in any way.
- By Ory [gb] Date 09.11.06 14:42 UTC
mum2molly, don;t get me wrong..... I have absolutely nothing against people that live in flats and if I was a breeder I wouldn't say no to someone who lives in a flat and wanted to buy my pups. All of that is fine, but they would have to promise me that the dog will be taken out for walks. I know that having a bog house and a massive garden doesn't make you a good owner! I'd rather give a pup to the right person that is living in a flat then someone who's never there and has a big garden! :cool:
- By Isabel Date 09.11.06 14:53 UTC

>having a bog house


Phew, I qualify with a suitable home :cool: :D
- By Ory [gb] Date 09.11.06 16:25 UTC
Sorry for my spelling mistakes :mad: ..... I always type so fast!!!! bog=big ;)
- By Isabel Date 08.11.06 14:48 UTC

>There are many cases when I would have my dogs pts rather than subjected to long and painful operations and recoveries.


I agree but acknowledge that vets do not do these treatments/operations without the owners' consent and, I suspect, determined wishes.
- By Puppycat Date 08.11.06 09:39 UTC
Hi
Is this confirmed as the date for implementation? Presumably then this will include docking?
Do you have a link to an offical source please?
- By Lois_vp [gb] Date 08.11.06 10:07 UTC
Hi Sharon
The Act will be introduced 'around' April 2007 in England, and later in Wales.  Apparently Scotland already has an Animal Welfare Act in place.
I think there'll be something on the RSPCA website but there's some info on
http://www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=23244
- By Moonmaiden Date 08.11.06 11:03 UTC
Animal Welfare Act 2007 from the RSPCA site

It has not as yet been passed on it's third reading in Parliament & can still be amended upto the date it has it's third & final reading
- By KateM Date 10.11.06 11:03 UTC
The Bill got Royal Assent on 8th November

To read in full

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060045_en.pdf

I can't find anywhere the commencement date but it is now a published Act of Parliament
- By Moonmaiden Date 10.11.06 17:24 UTC
I thought it was due sometime this month, must have missed the Hansard entry for it getting Royal Assent

Hm well the RSPCA will now be able to enter premises without the police if memory serves me right from the draft copy
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 10.11.06 23:18 UTC
Drat, it's in a .pdf format that my computer won't recognise. :( And I already have the most up-to-date reader that my system can use.
- By Val [gb] Date 10.11.06 23:24 UTC
There, I was going to copy and paste it for you, but it's 54 pages! :)
- By Moonmaiden Date 11.11.06 09:55 UTC
I've got a txt version & an iff version that is even bigger !

I see they did amend the right of entry to private dwellings without a court order
- By Isabel Date 08.11.06 14:45 UTC
Lack of a proper diet and adequate water can be demonstrated, much as it is now, but evaluating their condition and seeing if it improved when these things are altered.   Suitable housing and appropriate exercise could be determined in the same way.  I suppose the ability to act in a "natural" way could be determined by evaluating if abnormal behaviour or signs of stress and present and, again, reassessing when conditions are changed.  Pesonally, I would have liked to see something said about human companionship where it is appropriate.  For dogs, in particular, that is often more relevent than being housed with other animals.
- By Lois_vp [gb] Date 08.11.06 15:30 UTC
If the Bill hasn't received its final hearing, maybe there's still time to lobby M.P.s re the inclusion of other factors such as regular exercise and human companionship ?
- By sam Date 08.11.06 16:59 UTC
yippeeee:cool:  expressing normal behavious for my deerhounds is to course hares.....great, cant wait for the new law:cool::cool::cool:
- By Moonmaiden Date 08.11.06 17:09 UTC
Er shouldn't Deerhounds hunt Deer ?
- By jas Date 08.11.06 18:55 UTC
Yes, but they banned that long ago. Which is not to say they don't still take deer (and hares) as there is no way to explain the bans to them!
- By Boxacrazy [gb] Date 09.11.06 10:40 UTC
Does that mean that expressing normal behaviour.......
Your dogs can bark to their hearts content...especially if they are a guarding breed ;)
When you get complaints from the council and neighbours you just turn round and say
I'm making sure that I'm complying with the Animal Welfare act ;) LOL :D
That means that my Boxers can bounce upto anyone and I'm just making sure
that as it's normal behaviour for the breed (boisterous & Bouncy) I'm complying with the Animal Welfare Act :D :eek: ;)
Law and Ass comes to mind on some of it, although it is well intentioned...
- By pat [gb] Date 08.11.06 16:59 UTC
I could not agree more. What of the breeding bitches hidden from view on puppy farms and commercial kennels or in the ones in domestic houses in small cages? Have they again been forsaken?  In the majority of cases most do not have suitable housing or appropriate excercise for their whole life. Who is going to have access to check this out?  The licensing officers ignore their plight now and give many premises a licence, considering the premises acceptable when they are totally inadequate for the needs of the dogs confined within them.

Act in a "natural" way?, well it will be interesting to see if anything changes to the betterment of these poor dogs and their offspring the puppies come next year. I personally doubt it.   
- By keisha85 [gb] Date 08.11.06 20:01 UTC
We had this massive discussion about the new animal welfare bill and the link to the five freedoms (the list at the top of this topic) and how they contradicted each other at points, because for example- if you do the 'freedom to exhibit natural behaviours' for predator, then it is stressful for prey.
- By sara1bee [gb] Date 08.11.06 20:03 UTC
makes me think of the add i recently saw for chihuahua pups, both parents kc reg- pups wont be- buy with confidence from a licensed breeder! how can a licensed breeder sell not kc reg pups? will this sort of thing be looked at by rspca?
- By Isabel Date 08.11.06 20:08 UTC
Licensing is done by the local authority it is nothing to do with the Kennel Club or registering the pups although it should, already, provide a framework to ensure the dogs are kept in appropriate conditions.
- By pat [gb] Date 08.11.06 21:15 UTC
Isabel, if only that was true in all cases. So many licensed breeders that breed commercially for the pet trade, mosty selling through dealers although not all, own premises and allow their dogs to live in very low welfare conditions. Many local authority licensing officers in certain parts of then counry, licence premises that do not fit the criteria as stated in the conditions of The Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act. 
- By Isabel Date 08.11.06 22:20 UTC
Nothing I have said is untrue.  Whether the framework is used properly or policed correctly is a different matter.  I suspect you are right and it is not always upheld.  Whatever, it is not a Kennel Club issue.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 08.11.06 22:25 UTC
The Kennel Club doesn't licence breeders; the local authority does that. Generally anyone producing 5 or more litters per year requires a licence - they can be mongrels for all it matters for a licence.
- By sara1bee [gb] Date 09.11.06 09:32 UTC
thanks i didnt know that
- By Isabel Date 09.11.06 14:51 UTC
I think a lot of people get confused about this :)
Topic Dog Boards / General / Animal Welfare Act

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