Has anyone given up trying to teach their dog certain things? My GSD has been exceptional with his agility. I am proud of him. I am really struggling with retrieve & send away. I am pretty sure he knows what I want him to do, he just won't play ball! My trainer told me to 'make' him hold his dumbell. I did this gently & put my hand under his chin with his head up. I always have fun with plenty of praise & treats, but that doesn't work. It has string on it, but he mouths it all the time & doesn't appear to like holding it. He will not actually come near me to present it. He was almost coming to me, but after I 'made' him hold it, he now stops about 10 feet away from me. It's as if he knows he is far enough away so that I can't insists he holds it. I have tried other balls, toys etc. & he is the same with everything. Funnily enough he has a fixation with stones & that's about the only object he likes holding in his mouth. He is always picking them up on his walks. It's very strange, he is also the same with send away, if I am not near him he won't lie down on command. he goes to the spot & then returns to me & lies down there.  I feel that he has gone backwards with his obedince training since his agility improved. My agility trainer has told me that not many dogs can do both. I met a dog trainer out on her dog walk this afternoon, she was telling me that she had a border collie who was exactly the same. Zak has been hard work to train (he is 3 1/2), but because he really, really enjoys the agility he seems to do as he is told & picks things up really quick. I am wondering whether or not to just carry on with the agility. I must admit it's great fun & I am beginning to feel frustrated when I see the other dogs improving in the obedience, but we have hit a brick wall.  I never really wanted to do obedience seriously, I just wanted a dog that could be taken out in public & be well behaved. Has anyone else had this happen to their dogs? Should I look for another agility class on a Sunday, instead of attending the obedience?

Sounds like you are rushing things with his obedience.

The Retrieve - I would find a club that uses the clicker, you will be amazed at the results for a dog that doesn't like to hold a dumbell.  It is too complicated to explain if he is not already conditioned to the clicker.  If he is conditioned to the clicker, tell me what sort of things you do with him and how and I will try and explain it further.

The Sendaway - Are you training with a mat?  If you get your dog to go down near you on a mat, then you should be able to build it up by placing his mat a bit further away each time.  The mat becomes a target that he lays down on.  The mat is gradually reduced in size so it is only a few inches square in the end.  Teaching the actual sendaway becomes a seperate exercise, send him to a marker with his ball firstly infront of it, then behind it, don't down him at this stage, just tell him to get it.  Eventually his ball can be hidden under the mat and he gets it after he has gone down. 

Sounds like you have loads of time to teach the sendaway so don't rush it, build it up very gradually so he is confident.

I know lots of dogs that do both competitive obedience and agility, so there is no reason why you cannot do both. 

I agree with Sandrah's suggestions.  The trouble with forcing a dog to hold a dumbell is that you often end up with dogs that don't like doing it - so refusals are made in practise and competition.  If you clicker train it, you end up with a dog that will happily run off to get the dumbell for you :D

i know what you mean about going backwards, my dog has a fantastic sendaway and will do it to an out of sight spot etc but ask him to go past another dog in class to do it and he he gets all scared and wont go these days. he has turned into a big wuss.

well my BEST retrieve dog was Tara. It took me 6 months to get a retrieve out of her. The others took 5 seconds & were never as good as her!

you need to keep on at it,& basically be more stubborn than her. Only do it when you CAN spend X hours on it if you have to. So each time theres some improvement, also do "little" steps,so you can back track a step or two to keep the confidence

though if you really dont want to do ob,dont, its no good of you dont enjoy it

It sounds as if your trainer is a bit of a dinosaur - if you "make" a dog hold a dumbbell, he will not only try to stop doing it, but will also start to mistrust what else you may try to "make" him do. Just one of the many reasons I hope the "makers" disappear from dog training ;)

Would you consider a class for pet obedience? as that is really what you seem to want. If you look at www.apdt.co.uk you may find someone near you who will do classes such as simple Good Manners and may even do social walks :)

Things need to be enjoyable for you and your dog, whatever you do decide to do :) I'd suggest spending time finding a good trainer who you like and who is up to date in her methods. Many pet dog class trainers will use clicker and could help you with your retrieve :)

Good luck :)

Lindsay
x

I thought 'make' might sound a bit harsh. I didn't know how else to explain it. I was asking him to sit & then putting the dumbell in his mouth & gently holding his head up. I think I will try the clicker training. I know this might sound weird, but he doesn't seem to enjoy the training, he has started almost 'moaning' when I ask him to 'go' to his mat in send away. He almost reminds me of a whining child who doesn't want to do something! I really wondered if, if he doesn't seem to enjoy it, should I continue? I have seen many handlers who have to really, really encourage their dogs in agility, where as it seems so easy because Zak does enjoy it. I suppose I have to be top dog though & it's me who decides what we are doing, not him!! Thanks for the tips.

thats GSDs for you though to be fair,SAs arent GSDs strong point.

Nearly I would love to get my Boxer girl her gold KC good citizens certificate.
But there are two things we are stuck on..
Go to bed....(i'm guessing this is a bit like sendaway so I've now got some tips here to try! :D )
She's never been told off and sent to be so this is a hard one.
The other is down stay out of sight..
She doesn't like letting me go out of sight.. she breaks her stays (either sit or down) to come find me.

I'm sure in both cases it's a confidence issue...
But it's also hard trying to teach/train her with two other Boxers muscling in on the act too :D

clicker training is great for "go to bed" you start off standing with your dog as soon as they go on the bed click and treat, gradually you can move further away but you must click as soon as the dog gets on the bed.  One of my boys was a real sod at this he would back up onto his bed and just put his bum half on it and look at me as if to say "well im on my bed now wheres my treat!"

Yes, that's defintely GSDs for you, they don't want to be away from you :rolleyes: I have seen a number of dogs esp GSDs become less and less comfortable about doing obedience, it's almost as if they just stop enjoying it. My GSD boy does both, although has only just started in agility. I took my older GSD girl out of obedience after just 3 weeks, she hated it and I was getting bored and frustrated, and she is one of the best behaved dogs around. She does agility and competes in fun competitions - she enjoys agility.

If you have the 'obedience' that you need for everyday life and you and he don't particularly enjoy it, don't do it. For what its worth, I believe that any kind of activity must be enjoyable for you both
Kat

There is no reason that a GSD cannot be brilliant at sendaways and many are in Obedience, Schutzhund and Working Trials.

There is no reason why you cannot compete at top level at more than one discipline, there are many that do in several different breeds.......... Agility and Obedience are not mutually exclusive.