I have taken one of my dogs to his last Champ show today. I am not thick skinned enough for this game and people in our breed are too serious. I want to have fun but the nastiness and the you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours mentaility is beyond belief.  I am just going to have him at home to snuggle up with mummy and daddy and the other boys. He has had a very successful time at shows so this is not sour grapes. Just think hobby exhibitors can often get their noses pushed out unecessarily.  Deep sigh!!  Least I will save loads of money and buy the boys some new chewies and toys.   Sorry for going on a bit , just a little sad at the way some of these big shows have gone!!!

all the best folks!!

Oh, Danny
I'm sorry that it's come to that for you.  I've taken "time out" every now and again, but I do keep on going back.  Maybe you'll fancy it again after a break.  The thing to do is to ignore the people who can't be pleasant, and enjoy the nice people who feel the same way about their dogs as you do.  Not always easy, I know, but don't let the b*****s get you down.

I will be honest here. It just winds me up when people can predict who will win before the class because of who the judge knows and not because of the quality of the dog. It happened today again!! AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH !!   At times friendships have put up dogs of poor quality and not true to breed standard. This is shocking and of no benefit to the breed.

do I sound wound up ???

:rolleyes: yep know exactly what you mean. It was my first time in the ring today, not mollys of course, but new for me :) I actually enjoyed it, didn't think I would but I did :P
Trouble is with big shows/champ shows, people can predict who is gonna get placed where and it takes the fun out of it. I prefer the smaller open shows myself, though saying that their not without face judges neither ;)

Im sorry to hear this.

We found this with one of our breeds, it would be very much who you are, rather than the quality of the dogs.  Its taken us a year just to get places at champ shows and the comments we got at first because we had bred our dog ourself rather than bought them from the big breeders weren't too pleasant.  I decided to have a break, i'd had enough of the bad manners from other exhibitors.  But then we selected the shows and judges very carefully, and once we started getting placed and winning fairly regularly (we dont show thats regularly anyway!!) we noticed people started to talk to us, tell us how nice our dogs were, come over and say hi in the ring, and suddenly we were doing a lot better :rolleyes:  I very much believe its who you are, or who you are seen talking to!

That said though, with our pug we had a lot of success and we are no one in the breed!  At our first show we qualified for crufts in a huge class, we were completely unknown, so it shows that SOME judges judge the dog, not the handler, and i have found it to much more common in pugs than our other breeds to judge fairly, which is a shame for our other dogs, but its nice to have at least one breed where we're made to feel so welcome!!

I would have a break, and then maybe try some carefully selected open shows and see how you get on.  At champ level its incredibly competitive.

On a side note, funny story we heard from the woman who runs the hydrotherpay centre we take our dogs to.  She is a very successful breeder and exhibitor of Golden Retrievers and one year a rumour had gone around that she may be judging crufts the following year (she wasn't!).  Anyway, she was invited to a champ show, where her entries would be paid for her ( ).  So she took her absolutely worst dog who'd never been show train andby her own admission was a terrible example of the breed.  It was purely a pet, but she thought she'd see what people would say after all the rumopurs going aorund... Anyway, her dog won the class, then went on to get best of breed, despite the movement being awful, as well as the conformation! :rolleyes:

I think that story sums up some champ shows for me!! lol!

In my years of showing I've rarely actually seen this happen - people talk about it all the time but I think it can be explained another way :)  Ok, so people can quite often guess before a show who will get the tickets, but what if it's not 'facey' but simply that the judge is known to like that particular type? Of course they will like the type that their dog has sired etc. The big names who have several champions and always seem to win with their young dog at it's first show - maybe this is because they know exactly what to look for in a pup, it has very good lines and is well presented :)

I remember 20 years ago when I first started showing borzois there was a dog that was winning everything up here at the time. He was very glamarous and moved really well, but the people in the same breed whinged coz he had light eyes - and was winning over their dogs with dark eyes. There is no such thing as a perfect dog, people can always find a fault or three in the dogs above them - it's a judges job to weigh these faults up. Personally I liked the dog who was doing all the winning and forgave him his light eyes, as in a running hound I didn't think this was an important say as one who was upright in shoulder or had flat feet. Try looking at it the other way round and you may feel happier :)

My little lad (doggy ) and I have just had a snooze on the bed, he was cuddled up to my shoulder and his chin resting on my cheek for a whole hour. What sweet bliss!!  This is what having a dog should be about love! love ! love ! No win at any show could take away or be more important than the lovely moments I have just had with him!!

i take time out and do other things with my dogs, agility and flyball, etc, but i always go back to the breed showing, i have been put down tremdendously with one of my dogs,
for example he is always being beaten by a certain dog older than him, we got beat at a show and because we where beaten i let my dog go for a swim in the local lake he had a whale of a time, when i got him out and walk past this couple they said you can tell farm bred dogs can't you,
and of course i said no you can tell happy dogs that have a life and walked off, for three months we just concentrated on our agility and then went back in the ring two weeks ago and took BOB, beat our rivals, and i just smiled sweetly at them.
i show because i love it, yes i am happy when i take something home, even if it is from the raffle,
but i do know how bitchy it can be and how competitive some people are.
carol

Danny,
Sorry to hear your soo fed up :(
Sounds like your taking the best Remedy tho' (Cuddles and quality time with your best friend ;) )
Keep taking the 'remedy', tommorows another day..and all that twaddle...but its true!! Take time out, look at it with fresh eyes when your ready...and dont let the Glory grabbers get you down ;) :D (or get away with it!!)
{{Chinup,your better than this,Hugs!}}

Happens alot in our breed and most people are beginning to vote with their feet and not attend the shows , our entries are terrible compared to what they used to be.
The same kennel always gets at least 20 sets of the CC's every year , and before someone jumps on me , yes some of the dogs are nice and worthy and some of the the lame rubbish ones are not!!
But whatever they walk in the ring with they will win, thats dog showing for you.
The average life of people showing in our breed is 18 months then they just reside to having them as pets, which is fine.
But i am sure it happens in a lot of breeds not just mine.

Peanuts

You see, people always say this about top winning exhibitors - "oh they only win because it's them, regardless of what they take in the ring".  Maybe that's true but whose fault is it? Certainly not the exhibitors who win all the time and yet they're the ones who get the flack.  The 'blame' lies solely with the judges.  If they choose to put someone up because of who they are then that's their doing and not the exhibitors'.

Not getting at anyones comments on here, it's just the way I see it.

Debs

It depends on the exhibitors - I am sure there are many on here who get sick and tired of the same people turning up under the same judges at open shows even though they have already had a BOB with the same dog? And when they get the ticket regailing the judge with their past successes with that dog? 

I see what you're saying but in the end it shouldn't matter what the exhibitors say, the judge should put up the dog they like and not the one that they know does the most winning ;) All down to the judge.

Debs

Who sits down with the showing list at the beginning of the year and chooses their entries as per judges on that day?

Yes, but unfortunately what SHOULD happen, very rarely does. The judge SHOULD not look at the catalogue, but he/she often does, the judge SHOULD judge the end of the lead with the dog...the judge SHOULD judge to breed standard...I could go on.

I do think though that sometimes we need to be realistic about what we have at the end of our own lead ! - many of the top kennels win a lot because they DO have the best dogs and put maximum  effort into their presentation and training to ensure that they look perfect for the ring.
At the moment I am taking a break from showing at champ shows because I don't believe that I have anything good enough to compete with some of the stunning dogs now being shown in our breed - I currently have a house full of 'oldies' plus a couple of younger dogs that are OK but not good enough to win at this level. Only one of my dogs is CC winning material and his performance is so erratic that I'm giving him a break to give him time to mature mentally.

Yes sometimes face judging does go on but so does kennel blindness too folk !

Yvonne

I do think though that sometimes we need to be realistic about what we have at the end of our own lead ! - many of the top kennels win a lot because they DO have the best dogs and put maximum  effort into their presentation and training to ensure that they look perfect for the ring.

Ditto Trev :-)

Yes sometimes face judging does go on but so does kennel blindness too folk !

Ditto again.  You have to keep ploughing on till you get that one good enough. Everyone started somewhere. The top kennels were not the top kennels when they started.

You have to keep ploughing on till you get that one good enough. Everyone started somewhere. The top kennels were not the top kennels when they started.

Yes but you can waste an awful lot of money before getting the one that's good enough..:D
Lets face it, Dog showing isn't cheap and for those of us that like it as a hobby it's becoming a very expensive hobby.
Especially when you do see some of the 'politics' that can go hand in hand with the show world.
After 17 years of showing I am getting a little jaded with some of the antics that go on or can do, especially when entry fees
are ever increasing, to enter two dogs (2 classes each dog), plus catalogue is costing on average £15-17 a show for all breed open shows.
It costs £45 plus for all breed champ shows (1 class each dog plus catalogue). That's before considering your fuel, food, day off work,
shopping/spending money.
Open shows are fast disappearing because people perceive that perhaps everyone isn't on an even footing, the judge isn't a good one,
the venue is awful or the organisation is awful and they don't want a stressful day out like they did the previous time...
Here's me worrying that I won't have many to go to next year! :D
I'm not quite at the stage where I've had enough completely but I can understand where the original poster is coming from.

In the future I shall probably be the one in the zimmer frame going round the ring determined that one day I will be a face in my breed :D
Afterall some promise that with the docking ban pending they won't stay in my breed...so that will mean less competition....:D

Yes but you can waste an awful lot of money before getting the one that's good enough..

Some people learn quicker than others! ;)
When I look back at the quality of dogs that I started showing (AND thinking that I should beat the big people!) I can now see that my dog and my handling actually deserved the placings that we got. :(

I know that there are some judges that can see a decent dog despite it's handler too :D

But I'm also well aware of dogs that have managed to get stud book qualified that aren't
as good as some dogs I've owned/shown..;)
The way the cookie crumbles at dog shows.........sigh.

I take my winning and losing as it comes but boy do my dogs get an ear bashing on the way home
on the politics of dog shows or how the judge must clean their glasses for next time if they deserve a next time...
if I've had a particularly bad day,LOL luckily it's only them and myself in the car :D :D

But from the OH who has never experienced dog shows until he met me...he said boy are people
bitchy/back stabbing...he has since made a point of not going to any other dogs shows unless it's Crufts
and he can go off shopping...

Danny - I read this last night and couldn't reply cos my mouse gave up (new batteries required!)

A little tear came to my eye having read this - having been watching a lovely animal programme and read your post and Nurseys/

If it gets you down then it is definitely time to take a break - I have not had a great in the ring this year with one of my boys - last year was wonderful - so we decided to take a break from the champ shows and aren't doing that many open shows either just having some fun with the boys.  One of my boys only did one champ show this year and we took him out too.  But I do love the social side and have made quite a few friends as a result too.

I think the cattiness is stronger is some breeds than others maybe?

As others have said yes the face judging does happen but what is that good ole saying - we all take the best dog home.  At one champ show this year I witnessed the most obvious facing judging ever too so I made a note of the judge and he won't get an entry from us next time!

Don't let it get you down Danny!

I wonder if it is the same animal programme I have just watched :).  It was lovely to see two dogs rescued from a life of squalor but I think the cruelest thing I saw on the whole programme was a Don Quixote character wheeling a deer with three broken legs about on a trolley.  I think his idea of compassion was a world away from mine :rolleyes:

Isabel - no it was last night about elephants and one of the elephants died and the way the other elephants gathered round at one point was so touching - elephants are quite intelligant from seeing this programme.

But your programme sounds v. touching - a deer with three broken legs ???? Goodness?

Yes I saw little bits of that one :)  I didn't realise elephants lay down to sleep and all the snoring! :)

Yes - bit like my OH when he has had a few too many sherberts ;)

I know what you mean Danny, my friend sometimes says 'so and so will get the ticket when it's a week before the show!! But like others have said, sometimes it is just because they know what type the judge will go for. If you persevere you will get there - I'm a nobody and both my dogs do pretty well. :-)

Hope you feel better soon Danny and are out bouncing round the ring again :-)

Thick skin can be purchased from Argos for £9.99 a roll ;-) :-D

There is certainly good and bad in the dog world and also Good and bad people  sometimes it shocks you but through time you learn that the only thing in common is the dogs so you have to switch off. Different up-bringings , different moral standards. Some people  make a living from their dogs some don't so you get a whole big mix of people. Some know what freindship is some will never.  Most you may probably never have mixed with had you all not had dogs.

Chin up :-)

Hi Danny,

I know exactly how you feel and have had the same feelings and experiences showing my dog who I have only been showing for the past 7 months, so very much a newbie when it comes to gog showing. I have had many ups and downs this year in the ring when she has done very well then hit a bad patch and not done much. Face judging does happen and I have seen it happen in my own breed and the big kennels do tend to always do well. I love both my dogs to bits and first and foremost they are my little snuggle bugs and for fun we go to shows, do agility etc but most of all we have fun. I have made some very good friends through showing my dog who have given me loads of advice and support this year there are a couple of not so nice people and I just avoid them as I go to shows for a fun day out and to chat to my friends. I hope your feeling better about the dog show world soon, it is the way it is and it takes a while to accept it but most of all you have the best dogs in the world as I do. :)

I will not ' plough on ' until I find a good enough dog. I do have a good enough dog and he has been VERY successfully shown and had group wins on numerous occasions. I will NOT keep on buying in dogs for the sake of eventually having one as 'good enough' as the some of the top show people. Bottom line is some genuine hobby show people with ' good enough' dogs get stomped on in order for big names to keep winning and sctratching judges backs and vice versa. I have seen TOP show people with dogs that are CRIPPLED and it has still won , where as MR NOBODY  takes in a stunning healthy example of the breed and they get thrown out. THAT IS MY GRIPE !!!!!

I know of several TOP breeders getting rid of older stock and dogs that are useless to them and breeding indiscriminately until the next champion is born. Dogs deserve better !!!

I will still attend open shows from time to time and my Frenchie baby is due out soon for the first time. If anyone going to BUBA, please cheer me on.

Let's face it, in any sphere where there is competition there'll be people willing to do anything to win and people being left out of the placings for one reason or another.  It's all part and parcel of competition.  If you want to carry on then do so with a few added layers of skin ;) If not then I'm sure there are other equally enjoyable things to do :) Dog showing's not for everyone.

Debs