I have trained my dog since a pup and have done a lot of training with her, including heelwork to music, agility and obedience. I have moved 6 months ago and started a training class a month ago. I was put in the baby class with the pups that dont know how to sit and was told that i would be put in the correct level of class after the first week, which still hasnt happened. Well, last night they decded that they were going to teach us the very basics of a present sit to a finish, which my dog can already do, and they got us to step back on our left leg and lure the dog all the way around us,from the left and then circle directly behind us to come back to the left to finish. ive always done it slightly differently, with the me stepping back on my left leg and getting the dog to circle on the left side of me to come into a finish. and was promptly told i was cheating, so my question is-does it matter where the dog turns to come into a finish, obviously not being far away from the handler. i no there is the other way of sending the dog to the right and walk around the handler to get to the left, but i have never used that method. hope that makes sense.
sarah and keisha

Just checked Ellie and she turns to her right when she does that style of finish. Presumably if your dog is turning the other way there is more chance he will go wide? She doesn't go right round behind me though, unless we are practicing the other style of finish.

there are two types of "finished" ,both are CORRECT & legal in competition.
1.English Finish. dog presents then goes to the right (of the handler),around the back & sits at heel on the left

2.German/continental finish. dog presents, then flips (pivots) around to the hell postion. ideally head should remain close to your leg

its easy to teach,just step back with your left leg & take your arm back at the same time (luring the dog back in a straight line),then step forward & bring your arm in so the dog turns into you & into the heel postion.

Are you saying you are turning your dog away to the left when shes behind you?????

Its not cheating,but its not correct.& would be marked quite heavily in competion :)

Remeber ideally you are looking for the dogs head to stay on you leg whilst the back legs go around so they are piviting on the front legs ,so by teaching them to turn into you ,you can work onto that.

Circling away from you would look very pretty if done well,very HWTMy,but isnt correct for OB.

howver dont really like the attitude of you club!

sorry of ive misunderstood about the turning thing!!!!

Tara does the 'bouncy' type, left-handed finish - looks much neater and is quicker too :) :)

Daisy

i used to do the left handed one, but flynn actually does do the right handed one better,ive changed it this year. sometimes he fogets though & does the other one instead,& i look a right t*t cos my command for a finish is quite clear on which one i want!!!!!:rolleyes:

i think most young dogs are best off doing the left handed /german one, as you can keep a eye on the dog at all times!!!!

sorry if i confused people. I get her to present and then bring my left leg back and she goes to the left, a little way away from me and then when she reaches my foot (in the step backed position) she turns into me to come into a heel position, as i bring my foot back into a normal standing position.

they were getting us to step back, lure the dog towards the left, bring then threequarters around us and then get them to turn directly behind our back to come back into a heel position. therefore making the dog take longer to come back into a heel position and would probably be easier for the dog just to do the right hand one. hope that is easier to understand.

Are you sure they were actually doing finishes as this is the way we learn foot targets and to get into correct position to start OFF heelwork? I.e. teaching the dog to wrap itself around the leg but still being straight with the bum in the correct place. We do that like this before even taking any steps.

they specifically said that we were going to teach finishes, but that they dont normally teach it until the dog is in a more advanced class, but they didnt expect the class to be as good as their recalls, so quickly thought of something new to teach us.

That sounds exactly how I was taught to train Remy to finish.  It does take a while to start with, but with him at least it clicked one day and he started turning quickly - it's a case of once they're doing to turn themselves, only rewarding the faster ones, then the tighter ones and so on.  Remy will bounce into position nicely now.

the way i do it, or the way they are teaching it? becuase i will quite happily do it the way they do it if it gets the end results

i wouldnt teach a finish like that!

that daid,my left handed finishes are quite crap.........

Lol!  that was a bit like "tea or coffee?" "yes please" wan't it? :D  I meant the way they are teaching it, leading the dog right round behind and bringing them back close to the left leg.  It did take Remy a few months to get it, but I wasn't practising that much, and he was a distracted pup :p

The trainers at my work placement train your way I believe, one step back, leading the dog back then stepping forward again.  Works for them, they have trained quite a few dogs.  I think it's an individual thing really - Remy isn't terribly aware of his back end, so just stepping back wouldn't bring it round enough and he'd end up sitting at an angle from me.

sounds odd! maybe they are trying to teach a left turn?

im extremely confused to. if any bit of it makes sense, which one should i do. the one that have already taught, the one they want me to do or the right handed one?

teach the right handed & the left one, if your dog al;ready does a left handed finish without farting about why change it?

sorry if i confused people. I get her to present and then bring my left leg back and she goes to the left, a little way away from me and then when she reaches my foot (in the step backed position) she turns into me to come into a heel position, as i bring my foot back into a normal standing position.

that sounds perfect to me!

where the other dogs sitting straight after all that other dtuff?

they were sat half way beind their handlers/owners so you could only see their heads.

nough said then. thats ridiculous!!!!!

i thought it was a bit weird the way they were teaching it, it was like they were doing the begining of a left hand one and then putting the going nealry the all way round of the right hand finish into it!

....but going the wrong way??????? or am i miss understanding totally?

no your not, turning left, but nearly getting the dog to go all the way around you before it turns, so it is turning where the heel position would be if it was on the handlers right

I think that the way we started was to have the dog in the present position on a very short lead. Holding the lead against your left leg, take one step forward past your dog (at the same time giving your chosen command). The dog will have no other choice than to pivot into the correct position at your side. Once the dog gets the hang of this, then you shouldn't have to step forward. When the dog is doing the position properly, do it without lead.

Daisy

seems very odd.
but some people do do things different ways & get good results/....so maybe they know a way i dont!!!

Why dont you ask them (nicely) why the dog need to go far behind to the left? ie what it will achieve ?why will this get a better finish?

Do they have any competition people there?

they are a well known club with people competing at crufts each year. so I guess it must get results, i just found it a bit odd thats why i thought i would ask on here

In obedience?

yes

ohhhh PM me!!!!!!

pm'd you

just have to ask WHY & HOW then!!!!!!

It could be to train the dog to go all the way back and use his back end before coming into the heel position to avoid corners being cut.

Just a thought.

I think - not sure if I've got it - that I saw this demoed in Mary Ray's "Novice to Crufts" - but I can't remember what it was for, now...!!

Sorry a bit behind with the conversation :rolleyes: :P

didnt think about the corners being cut bit. I think I will start to teach they way they are teaching and put in a different command to the one that i have already taguht her and then see which one would get the better results and use that one.
thanks for all the imput

I am no obedience expert, but I understood that both types of finish were fine, and have been told that with guide dogs they teach the one you're doing so they don't get in the way of their blind handler.

Sorry, I'm behind the times and we'd already got there! I'm going to have to stay logged in permanently so I don't miss anything :D

both types are fine! its the training methods of the one type(lefthanded) we are questioning! admittedly it is confusing!

it would be easier if I could draw a diagram to make it less confusing!!