Ive just read on a US based, breed forum a question from a member asking if everyone thought their set up was ok for their new pup they are about to bring home...they are planning on crating an 8 week old pup in the garage for 9 (yes 9!) hours a day while they are at work...:( To make matters worse everyone was congratulating them and generally thought it was fine as long as the pup had enough toys and maybe a stuffed kong....:( I was a lone voice, suggesting that the puppy will be incredibly lonely and also pointing out that a pup that age needs 3 meals a day...I just dont get it, I honestly don't know anyone over here that would consider that setup to be any where near ok...but it seemed totally fine to most members judging by the responses...do views about dogs generally differ in the US or something??

I'll tread cautiously here because generalisations can easily cause offence but in the USA there are people who seem to have a greater acceptance of crating for longer periods of time than is considered acceptable over here.

it does seem different over there, from what i see on tv a lot of dogs are chained in the yard permanently. i suppose they are just guard dogs.

oh yes, of course, I dont want to cause offense to American members, I think I was all shocked after I had read all the responses, I really am sorry to generalise like that, its just from what I gathered it seemed more acceptable than maybe it would over here...of couse it was only a very limited number of people, so it is possible I got entirely the wrong impression.

I have been similarily disturbed by the overall acceptance of crating for long periods that seems to seem acceptable in the USA especially.

They are wonderfully useful things to have, but I would never use them routinely to keep a dog in for long periods while out.

I do wonder whether part of it is that many US homes are far more open plan making alternative safe containment harder?

Also many homes have no fenced Garden, it is normal to buy property unfenced, and you are either not supposed to have a fence or it is expensive to put one up, so many dogs are either kept in a pen (if they ahve a responsible owner), or are expected to learn the boundaries (mad) or escape and get run over or add to their huge overpopulation problem.

My daughter  & family are now in Conneticutt - and are now the proud owners of a working springer spaniel:rolleyes:

They have just paid out an enormous amount for "invisible fencing" as they are not allowed by local byelaws to erect any fencing in/around their half-care plot - which leads down to a lake and woods where, apparently coyotes have been seen from time to time.
I'm not at all happy at the idea of this sort of fencing - but I suppose when in Rome........

Come to that, I wasn't particularly impressed with some of the baby-rearing methods prevalent in Singapore and Tokyo when she had babies there either!

Margot

Being in Canada and not being a professional dog person I am not going to comment here other than to say I do find the information exchange here to be more advanced than what I found on some other doggy boards I visited. 

But, Margot, re. the invisible fencing, do you suppose they are like I was and do not realize it only keeps the collared animal in?  And does not keep other animals out?  Don't laugh, but when I first heard of it I thought I might be able to use it to keep my neighbours' nasty dogs out of my yard. 

We have coyotes too.  I can't see them being a threat to a dog the size of a Springer.  Unless the Springer accosts the coyote.  But puppies, yes, and cats have disappeared from my village.

Somewhat similar to my thing yesterday with the young toy breed pup which people wanted to push on its back etc etc as it growled over its food.

Views in general DO vary a lot between the countries. Although I think to a large extent it is Joe Public's views that differ, there are still nice, normal, responsible dog owners in the US of course. :) But if you look at pet keeping in GENERAL, just look at what is seemed as perfectly acceptable over there, such as neutering 8 week old pups, de-barking dogs, de-clawing cats, ear cropping, lots more are sold in pet shops, the puppy farms have auctions when they need to sell of their stock that is no longer any use for breeding, etc etc, I could go on.

When I had a BF in the US and stayed there quite a bit there was a lot that really upset me, such as going down to the supermarket to shop and finding people in the supermarket car park selling Dalmatian puppies from their car boot. They handed out leaflets to the shoppers saying something like "Dalmatian pups, pedigreed, priced to sell!!!" And nobody thought anything of it, in fact all I kept hearing was "Oh it happens all the time, it's how we got our dog/cat".

Now with my breed Malinois things get even worse, as over there the majority of people see them as a dog who is only measured by how hard it can bite. A good dog is a dog with a good BITE. And you cannot possibly train a Malinois without being hard -some people use not one but TWO electric collars on them, then get REALLY angry if you dare to say that is not right and there ARE other ways.....

I could go on for hours and hours about differences. It's largely cultural differences, what you have got used to. I know my views often are different to people here as I am Swedish and grew up with Swedish values, which for instance included never to neuter dogs (it used to be illegal) and never crate them and most dog owners live in flats.

We saw some St Bernard puppies for sale at a market when we were in Florida on holiday. It upset me for days. I can remember when the pet shops here used to sell puppies and kittens - thank goodness that was banned :-(

>thank goodness that was banned

No it isn't - it's still perfectly legal for licenced pet shops to sell puppies and kittens.

I went into a pet shop in Barcelona looking for goodies to bring home for my two.  I was disgusted to see glass 'tanks' with all sorts of breeds of pups for sale :(  I walked out immediately, announcing loudly in my best Spanish exactly what I thought of the place

I think we have two populations of dog owners in the US. There are responsible caring people who look on their pets as part of the family like most of the members of this forum (OK, maybe 3 if the looney toons who treat pets like spoiled children are a subsection of this group). There are a lot of these people, but you also get those who think it should be house, picket fence, and a dog in the backyard; just all part of the homeowner's package. For them the dog is like owning a garden gnome. The same groups exist here but the responsible ones seem to outnumber the crappy ones. I noticed when I moved here there were FAR less strays and more of the former types of owners. Something you Brits can be proud of.

now, my family is American, and I've lived in the UK all my life.  My opinion, and most of my families opinion, is that my dogs are family members.  My mum treats them like grandchildren!

I waited 3 years to have puppies.  I wans't in the right situation so I waited for them.  I work full time ish (at college one day a week), but I demand to work from home a good 70% of the time.  I only go in to work when they need me there.  I find this difficult enough, and I would never crate them for this long.  I bought 2 so they would have company on these days!  I simply cordone off the kitchen and hey presto.  ALthough stuffed kongs are great, they don't compensate for a mummy's love.

My attitude is that if you can't make arrangements, it is a little unfair to the dogs.  Sorry if that is a genrealisation, but it is how I feel!

I think you need to think for a long time about the commitments you will be making.  I can't bear the thought of a poor puppy being on its own in the dark all day like that.

Ooh dear, I'm getting upset now....  sniff!