My cousin and his wife are currently looking for a new dog to share their family life with. In the past they had an American Cocker male that died a couple of years ago aged about 12 or 13. They have seen what seems to be a Working type Cocker in a picture, and have researched the owners details to find there is a litter due soon. They have asked me to help them to make the right decisions, and I've said I will do my best.

That's where you guys come in!

What are the health issues in Cockers, and in particular what should they ask a breeder of working type Cockers? Another breed they like is the Small Munsterlander, or indeed the Large Munsterlander. What should we ask breeders about these breeds?

Then that most dreadful of questions..........What might they expect to pay for a puppy of these breeds?

Dawn R.

My experience as a groomer is that working Cockers are MUCH more active and driven that the show bred Cockers who are still busy but not constantly on the go.  Some families can cope with this and some can't.  And of course, that is a generalisation and there's always the exception. :rolleyes: :D

I would advise the average pet family to go for the show Cocker every time. :)

I would endorse that.  From what I understand about large munsterlanders, anyway, is that they are similar in energy to the working cocker.  I suspect the small would be similar.

Health issues in Working Cockers are much the same as in show-type Cockers - they should be eye tested and ideally hip scored. However, very few Working Cocker breeders do any health screening preferring to believe that only show-type Cockers have hereditary problems :rolleyes: There are some exceptions of course such as Kirsten who posts on here on here as "workingcockers" who is very knowledgable so would be a good person to contact for advice about Working Cockers generally. Just recently there has been a bit of an explosion in BYBs producing Working Cockers purely for the pet market and and selling them as the "low maintenance" version of the show-type Cocker so make sure your cousin talks to experienced breeders who actually work their dogs and know what they're talking about ;-) In the right home, a Working Cocker can make a great pet but but some new owners do find they have taken on too much so more working-type dogs are now turning up in rescue sadly.

i have al ot of experience of working cockers and as a rule they are hard worKK I am happy to recommend responsible careful breeders of working stock though if youwant some ideas. You may find that a responsible wcs breeder will not recommend one to your family on accountof their lifestyle v. the requirements of an active working bred dog.

My Yankee is show lines, though his coat's not brilliant, and he's certainly got bags of energy - I don't think I'd want a working bred cocker!

Happy to answer any questions etc - either by PM or email. Not really posting too much on boards now
Kirsten

Thanks everyone for the input. My cousins family are very outdoors people. They have horses, his wife doesn't work and the children are 12 and 8, so not toddlers. They have a great lifestyle, but not a huge amount of dog experience, although, as I said they had a male Yankee in the past, but Jasper was a very sedate old boy when he died.

I'll tell them all about the eye testing and hip scoring, and I'll look up the breed mean score.

What eye diseases are Cockers tested for?

Dawn R.

What eye diseases are Cockers tested for?

GPRA, CPRA & Glaucoma. There is a gene test now available for GPRA in Cockers but I think only show-type breeders are using this test at the moment. Other eye conditions are also seen like congenital cataracts, entropion and distichiasis.

Hi. As someone who is owned at present by 3 Large Munsterlanders I would be happy to talk about them all day! They are an active breed, and will take as much excercise as you want to give them. They are very loving as a breed, some more than others. My male likes nothing more than watching TV sitting on my lap 35 kgs of dog is a bit much to take at times ;) Being bigger than cockers they carry more mud into the house, and water, but they do dry very quickly. They are tested for Hereditary Cataracts and Hip Displacia. Some breeders are also starting to test for elbow displacia, but don't worry if the breeder you find hasn't started. It's voluntary and there doesn't seem to be a major problem.

www.lmclub.homestead.com/index.html is a good place to start. You may have to wait for a while for a litter as there aren't always puppies on the go, but there are details on the club site of the puppy list holder.

Hello all,

I have a working cocker bitch (Tizzy) who is 18 months old now. They need to be in a very active family with time for training from a young age.
Working cockers are a bit like jeckyll and hyde characters - in the home if they could open your lap and climb in they would :rolleyes:, BUT and its a big but, as soon as they're outside and the nose goes down, they can be quite deaf!  A lot of working springer people won't have them as they say that they're too nutty!. They are a mix of stubborn/wilfull and sensitive/soppy and i wouldn't be without mine.
They are beginning to be seen about in pet homes quite a bit more now, i know of a couple that do well in agility.
As far as price goes, you get what you pay for (mostly). I paid £400 for Tizzy, as her parents were health screened, but this price differs depending on pedigree etc.
The one thing i would say is that most of the working cocker kennels are still owned by people who work their dogs, i found that when i was searching, some of the kennels i contacted don't home to pet homes unless you will do some sort of work with their pups, not necessarily gundog work, but working trials, agility etc.

Anyway, enough wittering on - Ali

I've noticed a huge influx in working cockers in pet homes in my town -and I think the owners don't actually realise what they have bought, they just think Cocker, good pet dog and don't know there is a difference.  At our training club they turn up week after week, there must have been ten different ones in the past few months. None of them have stayed long, they give up.  Guess it must be somebody in this area that really churns them out.

>They are a mix of stubborn/wilfull and sensitive/soppy and i wouldn't be without mine.

Sums up just what I thought about my lovely old Bob.

I'd also be very thoughtful about lifestyle and overall experience with dogs before recommending a working cocker. There's a world of difference between living an "outdoor" existence and being able to provide the sort of productive activity that a working cocker (or indeed any other working breed) requires.

I've noticed a huge influx in working cockers in pet homes in my town -and I think the owners don't actually realise what they have bought,

Absolutely.  Of all the working Cockers that were bought to me for trimming/bathing, none of the owners knew that workers were different from show Cockers, including one lady who'd lost her Cocker and the pup that she'd bred 12 years before. :(  They just thought that their new puppy was a stockier type!  And even as a doggy, active, retired couple, they didn't have a clue how to keep the worker's brain under control.  He was gentle and loving with the grandchildren but like a coiled spring indoors and they couldn't take their eyes off him for a second outside, or his nose would take control of his brain.  Just having an outdoor life doesn't keep a worker occupied.

surely the lady who'd lost her cockers including the one she'd bred,would have had enough experience (as a former breeder) to check the pedigree of the pup before she bought and it would have been very obvious that it was a working type? Very few pedigrees will not have at least one FT CH, even if she didnt recognise the affixes? Apart from the breeding the physical appearances are different too even to a non breed specialist
It does annoy me that during the vetting process, some breeders are not making it clear what they are selling - my pet homes get a copy of the pedigree in the first stage of the vetting process so they can further research the dogs in it if they choose to before collection of a pup. Also they will have met my dogs during the vetting which includes 5 working cockers, 1 show type, a springer and a setter.

surely the lady who'd lost her cockers including the one she'd bred,would have had enough experience (as a former breeder) to check the pedigree of the pup before she bought and it would have been very obvious that it was a working type?

Not a clue I'm afraid.  She produced a pet litter to keep one and hers was (more by luck than judgment!) OK.  I wouldn't call her a breeder, although of course that's what she is.  They hadn't planned to have another puppy until they saw a lady in the village with a puppy and were told "there was one left"  They saw the Mother and thought that she was a bit big because she'd just had a litter!  They bought him to see me after having him for 5 days and my mouth dropped open.  They just said "He's a big boy, isn't he?"  By then he was part of their family and so there was no point is telling them that he wasn't going to be like their girls apart from a casual comment.  I've now moved away but they will love him forever - they're that sort of people -  but they were finding him very difficult as they were getting older.  The person who bred the litter just wanted rid of them.  There were no health tests and anyone with the money could have one.  It was to take the children to Disneyland! :(  I'm just grateful that he has such a sweet nature. :)

There were no health tests and anyone with the money could have one.  It was to take the children to Disneyland!
Too many breeders in all breeds are thinking like this - its tragic. I hope the litter cost them more than they made from it - I would be financially much better off without my dogs and having the odd litter, but like all of us, we value companionship more than any perceived monetary gain.
A real shame that the dog is being difficult to handle esp with an elderly couple - again all in the breeding - they are not all like that (other wise I couldnt have 5 of them!!), but doesnt sound like the breeders of this boy would be the sort to worry or have any long term breeding plan.:rolleyes:

doesnt sound like the breeders of this boy would be the sort to worry or have any long term breeding plan.

You're sooo right! :rolleyes:  Just a way of making money, and these really quite intelligent people didn't begin to understand, as so many people don't know how the dog world works when they only buy a puppy, maybe once every 15 years or so. 

It's hard when it's your own breed, isn't it?  It could be any one of us.

I have a working cocker and wouldn't change breeds for the world.  We decided on this particular breed because my OH wanted a dog which would cope with 12 hours hill-walking, and I wanted a dog which would enjoy cuddling up on the sofa.  Both of us have got our ideal dog!  She is our first dog, and was pretty easy to train, but it's important to keep them busy as they have very quick minds.  Be warned, though: this is not a dog to have if you aren't willing to spend at least 3 hours a day walking. 
I think the going rate for a working cocker (or wocker) is around £400.

Glad to hear a positive story - 3 hours walking a day though?? I really limit exercise until a year old as so aware that these joints have to last them a life time. But still after that wouldnt say that they needed 3 hours a day - even my setter doesnt need 3 hours a day...

If the dog is given enough mental exercise no dog NEEDS 3 hours a day. Most will take as much as you will give, but 3 hours of exercise will give you a very fit dog, but not neccessarily a tired one, especially as workers would be out in the field all daym they have incredible stamina. An hours brain work however would be as exhausting as 2 hours walking.

Yes, absolutely, I wouldn't dream of walking a pup for anywhere near that length of time.  Molly does get around 3 hours a day, but I guess this is what she has got used to, and if my partner wasn't a keen walker she may well have happily made do with less.  There's been a couple of occasions when both of us have been ill and she didn't get a proper walk, and she was climbing the walls and driving us mad in the process.  But most of the time she is more of a lap-dog and sofa snuggler than my parents' cavalier!

Thanks guys, this thread has been really helpful. I've given all the info to my cousin and his wife, so they are well prepared. If they ask all the questions I have suggested, the breeder will be either very impressed, or very taken aback depending upon their standards. :D Ta very much :)

Dawn R.