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By echo
Date 23.10.06 08:08 UTC
I put this in the breeding section because it concerns puppies just on their feet and still with mum and I do understand that different breeders us different techniques so here goes.
I personally have never seen any of my bitches pick up a pup by the skin on the back of its neck. I have seen one bitch pick up her puppies by enclosing the neck and shoulders in her mouth to move them to a different spot.
A breeder friend of mine picks up puppies by the scruff, skin only to move them around.
Would there be any benefit to picking up puppies like this or is it likely to cause damage?
By LindaMorgan
Date 23.10.06 08:26 UTC
Edited 23.10.06 15:11 UTC

When my bitch had pups she had one of them out of her birthing box and she picked it up beind its neck but upto the little ones legs were in her mouth. I have not picked any of mine up with the scruff but when my dad bred Jack russels many moons ago all his breeder friends also picked them up by the scruff and some used to scream and it has put me off also my vet has never handled them this way either
my bitches rearly pick the puppies up i did have one bitch who did but picked up around the shoulders and head i dont agree with picking them up by the scruff id never put my puppies through it
By Daisy
Date 23.10.06 08:32 UTC
I used to pick Tara up by the scruff when she was having hissy-fits - it was the only way to get hold of her (without getting bitten) to put her for 'time out' :D :D A very experienced friend uses this with unruly puppies and it is amazing how they quieten and relax when picked up this way. She doesn't consider it at all dangerous to the pup :)
Daisy
By sam
Date 23.10.06 09:37 UTC

I certainly do this for the terrier pups....continuing for rest of life, but not for the hound pups as they are not designed for this. My hound bitches darry them by encompassing whole head, neck & shoulders in their mouth.
I don't think it's a suitable method for large heavy pups but certainly the smaller breeds, in particular terriers, who seem to have skin as thick as rhinos, I don't see a problem with it. Better to grab a dog by it's scruff and get it out of a situation than try and pick it up with both hands (not recommended when 2 are fighting!)
Becky
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 10:49 UTC

I would not dream of picking my terrier pups up by the scruff. Why treat terriers differently?

Certainly my bitches havent used the scruff when picking up their babies. And I really cant beleive that because they are a terrier breed their skin can be any different from any other breed. We are (I think) talking puppies here, not adults having a fight.
By sam
Date 23.10.06 17:58 UTC

"Why treat terriers differently"
because they are designed for it.
I have to say, being a microchipper, the skins of terriers (even 8 wk old pups) is incredibly thick and they don't seem to mind being scruffed, my dachshund doesn't either, my poodles on the other hand are big girls blouses and if I tried to grab them by the scruff they'd scream blue murder.
Becky
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 18:34 UTC

Designed for what??? Are you saying that, say, an Airdale is similar to a westie?

I thought terriers were designed to hunt vermin and so would be needed to be more resistant to bites from their prey.
Technically an Airedale isn't a terrier, neither is a Russian Black, on the other hand dachshunds are!
Becky
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 19:21 UTC

But why should terriers (or whatever breed is "technically" a terrier) be scruffed any more than other breeds? If a bitch doesnt pick up her babies in this way, why should we? Cats yes, dogs no. Mine are terriers and no way would I do it.
Not even in an emergency? What exactly is your problem with it? Do you think it would hurt?
Becky
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 20:20 UTC

I cant imagine any "emergency" where it would be necessary to scruff a small puppy. My problem with it is that as far as I am concerned a puppies scruff should not take the whole weight of the puppy and it is totally unnecessary to pick a pup up that way.

Then why cats, which are heavier than a small puppy?
By Daisy
Date 23.10.06 20:26 UTC
Well, I'm afraid that I have, in the past, used the scruff to remove my younger dog from picking a fight with older dog - mine don't wear collars indoors and it is the easiest and safest thing to do. Although it is not something I have done on a regular or frequent basis, she has never shown any signs of pain or discomfort. Better that than a full blown scrap.
Daisy

I've seen adult labradors lifted out of the water by their scruff and the loose skin in front of the tail. Maybe not ideal, but quick, and better than drowning.

i never do this to my cats either
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 20:58 UTC

When I said cats and dogs, it should have been kittens and puppies - I would not scruff an adult cat. Kittens have a much fleshier neck than puppies.

A vet will
always remove a cat from a catbasket by lifting it by its scruff. It's the only safe method to prevent injury to both cat and vet.
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 21:06 UTC

But he wouldnt lift a puppy that way.

You think not?
By Fillis
Date 23.10.06 21:13 UTC

Well I've never seen a vet lift a puppy by the scruff.

I pick my pups up by the scruff alone till they're about 3 weeks, then it's scruff and hand under the backside for support, because they're getting heavier. I
always have a firm grip on the scruff of a larger pup when I'm carrying it tucked under on arm, for security.
By jas
Date 23.10.06 17:35 UTC
As others have said my bitches pick up the puppies by grapsing the whole head in their jaws. These are big, heavy hound pups and I don't pick them up by the scruff. When they are tiny I lift them with a hand under the belly. Once bigger I lift them with one hand under the chest and one under the rump.

My bitches have always lifted their small pups by holding them around the body, not the head. They hold the heads in their mouths when the pups are older and need disciplining!
By jas
Date 23.10.06 17:49 UTC
As well as moving baby pups by the head my girls grab them by the head when they are bigger for discipline too. Or they grab them by one hind leg and tip them over - though that may be some arcane form of hunting training?

Oh yes, mine do the hind-leg grab too! I'm sure it's hunting training - hamstring your prey then it can't run fast and is easier to kill.

Yep playing Elkhounds always go for grabbing of each others hind legs.
By echo
Date 24.10.06 08:15 UTC
I was talking about 3 to 4 week old puppies in no danger of fighting. The puppies are not Terriers but quite a smallish breed. Just seemed unnecessary to me but I can see the merit of lifting one out of a fight rather than let it get bitten when they are older although none of my puppies have got into that situation because mum has always stepped in.
Interesting about the leg grabbing. My TT's tend to go for the front leg to bring down a Beardie, totally different technique but works equally well.

One of mine used to bring down her basset hound friend by standing on his ear! :D
By Dill
Date 25.10.06 11:11 UTC
Edited 25.10.06 11:17 UTC
Sorry, but it seems to me an outmoded form of picking up a young pup :( Scruffing to have a firm grip on a pup or older dog (but not
picking up by the scruff ;) ) would be sensible in certain circumstances. Cats are normally scruffed in the vets but the other hand
should be under the rump to bear the weight and suppport the cat ;) Certainly I've never seen a vet pick a cat up by the scruff only ;)
Lets face it, Rabbits
used to be picked up by their ears but now its deemed to be cruel, thank goodness ;)
Would love to see the Basset being brought down by his ear :) :)
Our bedlies often go for the legs when playing, especially the one underneath, but it's the neck every time to bring each other down
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