...did anyone just watch it?

How sad, but how very responsible of the family!

yes i just saw it! it was very sad, but it mauled the little girl, which isnt right. the poor man too

I really don't think it was neccessary to see them bury it in the garden, or show the poor owners making that agonising phone call though. Its a hard enough thing to do without having it filmed and shown to the nation!!

sniff...watched it...sniff

I must admit I was in tears. Brought it all back because I had to have dog put to sleep because it bit my then 18 month old daughter for no reason whatsoever. I know exactly how they felt but agree it was absolutely the right thing to do.

first time i have seen victoria  fail like that-im surprised they showed it. i think as it was a solid cocker perhaps it had sudden rage syndrome? my mother in law would say it proves dogs and young kids dont mix.

yes i thought she might come back and train the dog and it would all be fine

Stereo typing solid cockers again.  I agree the dog had to be pts but maybe he could have gone to an adult only home.  Its just a thought and of course I am biased having a solid red and a blue roan cocker myself.

I wasn't suprised they showed it, I think they would have really wanted to show it and were glad the family agreed to it - particularly the filming of travelling to the vets and burying the dog in the garden - its reinforces Victoria's message that you have to train your dog (to some degree) and if you're going to be a dog owner, you have to take responsibility for it and the consequences of dog ownership.

Although she did make a point of saying he must have had a neurological disorder, just in case viewers thought she had failed!

I'm glad they showed it. The dog was dangerous IMO... it had really attacked that little girl. I wouldn't want it around even an adult only home I don't think... I found it upsetting though - didn't enjoy watching him make his final trip in the car to the vets - awful :(

I too think they did right showing it. The family I think were part to blame for the training not being done correctly in the first place. I would (I hope) never let a situation get out of hand like theirs did. I would not have dogs jumping at the table & stealing food. It didn't look like they had been taught much at all. I also noticed that all members of the family, including the children, were pushing/smacking the dogs when they jumped up. This achieved absolutely nothing. One dog trainer (a long time ago) told me if you start to smack your dog across it's face, you are on a hiding to nothing, because they soon start to snap at the hand that feeds them. There was a dalmation on the other week which also had terrible habits, but the transformation after the traing was a credit to both the trainer & the owners.

I think it was very brave of the family to allow the broadcast to go ahead. It just highlights to us all that sometimes there is no "happy ending, ", despite everyone's best efforts.:-( :-(

i dont believe i was 'stereo-typing' solid cockers, most people i know have never heard of sudden rage syndrome. i thought research has proved it exists but cant remember where i read it. it was just a thought thats all- i couldnt think of him attacking someone with no reason.

Personally i am not entirely sure he had rage syndrome (or as she puts it a neurological problem) at all. The other times he had bitten it was over food, was not happy at being challenged by his owners and i would bet that he was probably guarding something "tasty" he had found in the garden. Having a spaniel that resource guards i would say that that had a big hand it it.

I think they were far to sketchy with the details . how many more owners will just take there dogs to be pts without finding out why the dog did it now . Just because it was a solid dosent mean it had rage :rolleyes:  rage is very very rare!
Couldent this dog of just had a problem with children it dident seem to go for the adults in the house , either way I dident want to see the poor boys head sticking out of the cloth he was carrying to be burried

I was delighted the phrase 'rage syndrome' was never uttered in the programme.

On the subject of Victoria mentioning a neurological disorder...I did think it was curious the dog did not look at all fat, and that made me wonder if the dog had some some of hormonal/thyroid problem, which could then be linked to the aggressive outbursts?
I can't say I know much about this topic, but I did have an uncle whose ex-wife had an over-reactive thyroid gland, and that caused her to have aggressive mood swings and trouble keeping weight on!

Very sad the poor dog and family.  I think my last cavalier may have been put to sleep if I hadn't rehomed him as he had bitten me and my partner several times but as there were no children involved I would not have him pts he had an awful upbringing and his was fear aggresion and food aggresion but I really think he loved me and was never aggressive with the cats.  The attack on the little girl looked awful I don't think the family had a choice but the Dad still held on to hope Victoria could fix it how sad

On the subject of Victoria mentioning a neurological disorder...I did think it was curious the dog did not look at all fat, and that made me wonder if the dog had some some of hormonal/thyroid problem, which could then be linked to the aggressive outbursts?
I can't say I know much about this topic, but I did have an uncle whose ex-wife had an over-reactive thyroid gland, and that caused her to have aggressive mood swings and trouble keeping weight on!

They did mention the pts was also on the advice of the vet, so I'm sure the dog would have been examined - how thoroughly we don't know.

You're quite right regarding thyroid problems, and they can cause problems in dogs including aggression sadly. Dogs get hypothyroid usually, there's a fair bit of info about it on the net. I hope the situation was neuro in a way, as if it had been something like hypothyroid it could have in all probability been cured.

It was very sad, I'd have liked to see more about the decision making and a tad less of the very sad ending for the owners.

Lindsay
x

I haven't watched it yet, taped it, but I gather from this thread what happens. I had a Cocker myself (Blue Roan) that had to be put to sleep due to aggression -there was certainly no resource guarding with her, she was just like Jekyll and Hyde and you never knew what she'd be like and when she'd attack.

I like the fact that they DID show a failure. Last year we all moaned about how they probably DIDN'T! I must admit Victoria Stillwel is growing on me -I think she is improving. I've found myself saying a few times recently "Oh that's what we do!" Don't agree with it all still, but when you compare to "Dog Borstal" or "Britain's Worst Pet" -well she wins hands down. Did anybody else notice how on "Britain's Worst Pet" they NEVER seemed to actually fully resolve ANY of the animals' problems, they just sat about and   uumhed and aahed, wheras on "It's me or the dog" the dogs DID improve. I thought the Chihuahua/Bulldog episode last week was very good.

Credit where credit's due. :)

I have been told by a source that the dog has been given put into rescue and was being looked after but because VS said he should be put down the family demanded him back and he was pts because the rescue papers had not been finalised in time.  The rescue home knew the dog well and was prepared to take on its issues.  I am so damned cross

Never saw it was at work but can anyone tell me is it repeated anywhere?

I think re the rescue we don't know the full story - part of that story was that the dog was a working cocker or that he was from working lines, yet also there is suggestion he was bought from a place similar to a puppy mill, so how anyone even knows the parentage of the dog is odd. Not saying the story isn't totally correct, there may well be a very good explanation, but that sounded very odd and I'd   want to know more before judging, so to speak :)

Lindsay
x

He wasn't a working cocker he was a show one. They stated that he had been handed to friends after the attack. Personally, in my opinion, if a dog attacks a person unprovoked then it should be put down. Any rescue centre that takes on a human aggressive dog that attacks unprovoked needs to be questioned (if that is indeed the case). There are many non-aggressive dogs out there that need homes and should really take priority.
Becky

Response to the programme from Victoria Stilwell http://www.victoriastilwell.com/benjy-resp-10-17-06

I agree 100%. There is also the fact that the dog could be rehomed in an adult family, but still have visiting children - and if the new owners do not understand the enormity of the problem the dog has in attacking children it could easily be yet another bad news story for the cocker spaniel.

There as I thought another side to this story I'm not at liberty to post what actually did happen on a public forum as the information came via a members only e group.

All I can say is that it didn't surprise me at all that VS when she fails resorted to the PTS advise

Unfortunately I neither saw nor taped this episode but having had a cocker spaniel and received warnings about "cocker rage" - not that Bob suffered, I hasten to add - I'd be very interested in seeing the programme if anyone would be kind enough to send me a tape. Postage and costs of tape met by me, obviously!

so i was right about the rage syndrome?

I think most, if not all, responsible trainers would recommend PTS for a dog that savages unprovoked a person. I also saw it on Pet Rescue where a person aggressive dog was put down so it's not jus VS who hands out this advice.
Becky

Bear in mind this was a badly bred dog bought from a dubious source that had owners who never trained it & were all inconsistent

As for Pet Rescue programs so called "behaviourists"I stopped watching it when the great dane bbitch that ate her own puppies was on & the "behaviourist"couldn't explain why she did it & that she had never known or heard of any bitch that would do such a terrible thing & suggested she be PTS !!!!!

Irrelevant, the dog attacked a child without provocation. How could you rehome that?
Becky

Irrelevant, the dog attacked a child without provocation

I'm not saying I would rehome such a dog but the dog was offered a chance by someone other than this self styled dog behaviourist & this person knew the dog  & the family for longer than a few weeks

I think he had already had more than enough chances!

The first time was over food and explainable to a degree but the second was a definite attack, not a bite. From wounds they showed on her body he had obviously gone for her several times, not just a snap to 'tell her off'. I think there's a BIG difference between the two.

There are plenty more dogs that dont get any chance that end up being put down that IMO are much more deserving of a home.

I did some voluntary work for a local, well known, rescue centre earlier in the year. One dog came in with an ear infection and only lasted a couple days before being put down for being a 'dangerous dog'.

He had arrived at the centre and was poked and prodded for his health check, injections and microchip. He didn't like his ears being done and one woman went in to his kennel to do his ears on her own. He growled at her, she ignored it and she carried on so he snapped at her.. so they put him down.

I think that the fact that the dog attacked without provocation was the issue, how could you know it wouldn't do it again? They had already given the dog a chance when it bit their other wee girl over food. This time the poor girl had been bitten a number of times for no apparent reason. I would have done the same. One of our dogs bit our daughter when she was three and fractured her leg! He was fighting with our other dog at the time and her leg got in the way. We gave the younger dog back to his breeder for rehoming and kept the older one as an only dog until he was 13, he never did it again ever, but if it had been done with no reason I would have had him pts even though it would have broken my heart to do it :-( , sometimes people just have to come first, especially children.

I never saw the programme but given what has been written and from that what I've read happend all I can say is I would rather be burying a dog than a child. A dog is a dog and no matter how much I "love" my dogs, and I do - I would not choose my dog over a human - would you?

I don't think nearly enough information was given as to why the dog was being PTS.  The last time it bit was when the child was alone outside with it, so how on earth could they have known what caused the bite and why on earth was a young child being left alone with a dog that had already bitten.  The owners unknowingly were inviting a bite the way they were tapping the dog on the nose when it did something wrong, I think if someone kept doing that to me and not listening when I said I didn't lkike it I might bite too.  On the info we were given I really don't think the dog needed to be put to sleep.

Karen

I would normally agree with you, we don't know because the child was alone and that wasn't sensible given the history, but the dog bit her - and kept biting! IMHO you can't take a risk with a dog that does this. My experience was different because the dogs were fighting and my daughter got in the way but when the dog bit her both dogs stopped fighting  immediately and obviously knew that they had done something wrong. A dog that snaps and stops once the provocation has gone is one thing but one that keeps on biting like this one did can't be trusted and having it PTS is IMO the only sensible option.

My coment to my OH is the dog should have been crate trained and only allowed access to the children supervised but it had bitten both young children and the mother the programme is to short to go in to great detail about everything but the dog bit the second child in three different areas on her body thankfully not her face in different circumstances maybe there could have been a different out come but the dog was loved and being pts was not the easy option maybe this will serve as a deterent to others who allow there dogs to run riot with no training.  Even with smaller dogs things can go wrong.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, however, once a dog learns to use his teeth on people they tend to do so again. Whilst it was a tragic outcome, in my opinion was the sensible and best one for both people and dog. We don't know what was going on in his mind to make him do this and he is now at peace.
Becky

>I would not choose my dog over a human - would you?<

Depends which human we are talking about,i guess. I will admit there is nothing on this earth my dogs could do that would make me put them to sleep,nothing! If worse came to worse i would give them away to another family,which would be a stretch,it would have to be a do or die situation,it would break me in two and would be hard enough,but to kill my dogs,this would never,ever be an option!

Surely that is being grossly unrealistic and naive. So say your dogs killed a human? You'd KEEP them?! :rolleyes: Under law you wouldn't HAVE a choice anyway.

>So say your dogs killed a human? You'd KEEP them?!<

But what would putting them down achieve? How many dogs have killed/attacked people for absolutely NO reason,not many, i'm sure.
For me,it's no different than the death penalty for humans.If one of my kids murdered someone i wouldnt want them put to death either.

Yes, i know i sound naive and the law would take the decision of keeping my dogs out of my hands anyway,but if the choice was up to me,then no there could be no reason for me to put my dogs down.If say one of them did attack and kill someone i'm pretty sure the dog would have shown some sort of sign or inclination beforehand.And i still firmly believe that dogs dont attack and/or kill for absolutely no reason.

What if your dog is mentally ill and therefore will attack with no external reason and without warning. I'm pretty certain if one of your dogs killed one of your children you'd think very differently.
Becky

>If worse came to worse i would give them away to another family,which would be a stretch,it would have to be a do or die situation

I realise we are now in the realms of hypothesis here but how would you live with your conscience if, after having given your dog away to another family, it subsequently attacked (and possibly killed) another human? I agree absolutely that there is a reason for all behaviours exhibited by dogs but sometimes the kindest thing that can be done is to put an animal to sleep. I certainly don't see euthanasia as an automatic solution when an alternative can be sought and there are certainly times when I think animals are pts too hastily but for all that, there are times when this course of action is, sadly, unavoidable. And a thoroughly happy and healthy dog rarely launches a frenzied attack on a human.

What would you do if you had a very large Irish Wolfhound that episodically (several times a week at the end) attacked the nearest living thing, be it dog or human and kept on attacking regardless for up to 10 minutes? A long time ago I was in this position, and reluctantly, after investigation at the Vet School and a trip to the bahaviourist I had her put down. It turned out a autopsy that she had a brain tumour, which had been suspected, but no matter what the cause had been she was simply too dagerous to keep. She was kept muzzled after the attacks started (and was very unhappy about that) but she was so big she could still do damage with the muzzle on. I was very sad to have her PTS, especially as, between her attacks, she was her normal sweet self, but during her aggressive fits she was a potentially lethal weapon.

Oh what an awful situation you were in, sounds like you ventured every avenue before you came to your decision, I cant imagine the trauma knowing that it was a illness rather than actual aggression from her.

You are very lucky Ktee to have obviously never have been in the position to have to make such a heartbreaking desicion. It is something I would not wish on my worst enemy but to this day I know I made the right desicion in choosing my childrens welfare above a beloved pet, no contest. We chose not to rehome because I could not live with myself if my dog bit another person unprovoked, like he did with my daughter. At the end of the day, my dogs actions are my responsibility and biting a child unprovoked is unforgivable. JMHO

I have to agree with you. As much as I love my dogs, if one of them bit another person for no apparent reason then I would have to have them pts. Like you, I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing that there was the possibility of them doing it again. I would feel responsible even if they were in the care of someone else.

I've done it too. When the choice was a totally unpredictable dog or a 6 month old baby -no contest. It would have been criminal to rehome such a dog.

Ottoman, I agree with you absolutely, and no its not the 'easy' option, its heartbreaking for everyone concerned, your child has to be your first priority.
Ktee, some dogs do attack without provocation and believe me, even when it is an accident, if your three year old child has to undergo surgery because your dog has bitten them then you might change your mind. People don't realise the damage even a small dog can do to a child, I would never have believed a simple bite to the leg would fracture a bone, which is why it is up to us, as responsible owners to ensure our dogs don't get into a position that the damage can be done, but accidents can happen in a second. If the dog bites with no reason then this would mean keeping that dog away from everyone - you don't know when the dog will turn and bite so its impossible to keep them in a normal situation. Having lived with a beautiful border collie who suffered with fear aggression(people not dogs), long before behaviourists were available to help, I can tell you it is a nightmare trying to live a normal life with a dog who will attack, even one who does give loads of warning signals. Its certainly no pleasure for the owner or the dog. To live with one who gives no warning would be a million times worse.