I went into our farm supply store yesterday, and when i parked outside, i parked next to a small car, which, being in a Defender, I could see straight down into it. In the back seat was a baby carry chair with a tiny baby in it, less than 2  or 3 months I would guess, and sat on the front seat was a jack russel!!! No signt of parents, they had obviously gone shopping!!! I was absolutely livid, what if something had sparked the terrier off & the child had been bitten or worse? it would have been the dogs fault of course!! I went into the store & looked for likely parental material so i could tell them my views but didnt see anyone & then just as i was paying i saw the car drive off. I am still fuming & going to write to our local paper to try & shame them!!

I find this type of behaviour also incredible Sam. Do they just not think.? People don't get it at at times.

This is perhaps a slightly difference example but still had me shaking my head,

I was standing behind a young lad ( 20-22 ish) at the vets last night at he had a 7 month old "Huge" rottweiler.  The boy must have said over and over again 30 times, "sit nice", "stand nice" but never once actually got the dog to do anything. The words were just coming out for no reason.   I couldn't help but say, " you are doing well with you training" and winked at him in a nice way.  He just laughed but he knew what I meant.   Lovely dogs are wasted at times.

People really frighten me at times. :rolleyes:

as good as Maddie is with Emily (23 months) I would never, ever leave them alone in the car together! Blimey if someone set Maddie off she would crush Emily if she jumped on her! It doesn't bear thinking about :(

and what would the papers have picked up on in the event of such an incident?
Not the idiot parents or guardians but Yup another killer breed

Good Heavens, is it not illegal to leave a child unattended in a car?  It is here.  There is a casino in a nearby community where, sadly, so many children have been left waiting in cars or free to wander in the parking lot that special parking lot patrol staff have been employed to check on the cars.  Sick people, and of course gamblers are sick.

That is just terrible Sam, and totally irresponsible and I think you are totally justified in trying to shame these people, before they do it again.  All that baby needed to do was start to cry and the Jack Russell would have nipped and even gone for the baby's neck to make it quiet, it is a natural instinct for a dog to want to stop a screaming pup, child or baby and if that means killing it so be it.

Did they think the JR would protect their baby from any kidnap attemps, is that why they left them alone together, :rolleyes: who would leave a dog to nanny a baby. :-(  They are lucky no-one drove off with the car, dog and baby also, all due to them proberbly feeling inconvenienced at having to take baby and carrier/pram out of the car, you can't be lazy with a baby or a dog, shame away Sam!!!!

I assume, given the time of year, that they weren't parked in the sun :rolleyes: Not that that makes it any better.

I have no exerience of young kids myself, so wondered, would it have been acceptable if the child was left in the car without the dog?
I would have though leaving a young child unattended would be an absolute no-no, yet the comments here only seem to be frowning upon the dog being in the car at the same time.

No.

They are always leaving babies in the car on the school run at my sons school. Its not right - car could go up in flames, get stolen - anything. Wouldn't leave a baby of mine unattended - no chance.

Why is it that people just don't seem to think about consequences any more? Has today's generation lost its imagination to think ahead? I am puzzled sometimes, I really am!

Lindsay
x

I remember hearing about a woman in Italy leaving her sleeping baby in a car and it getting heatstroke and dying....

I persoanlly as a parent and a dog owner have a problem with both a child and a dog being left alone in a car either it be it on their own or together it that had od been me i would have stood by the car and waited for them to come back

A friend of mine left her daughter in the car while getting money out of a cash machine. A Social Worker just happened to pass by and stopped. Apparently you can be charged with neglect or abandonment Quite right too. :(

Ok - here's one for you.

You are coming back from the park having taken your dog and baby for a walk.

needless to say both most probably fall asleep in the car during your drive back

You get very low on petrol and need to fill up- what do you do? (and no there are no drive through petrol stations around)

Take the baby in his carry seat in to pay for the fuel :) No need to wake up then. If baby is older then don't get into that position in the first place and fill up when baby is not asleep in the car :D

Do you have little kids?

Mine can fall asleep at the drop of a hat so not always possible.

What I was trying to get across is that this person may have made, in their minds, a sensible decision.  We can be very quick to judge others and I for one know I am not perfect (just don't tell the wife!)

Yes, I am on my 4th. And no, I don;t ever EVER leave them unattended in the car - and never never never never with a dog in. A fuel station that I could see the car out of whilst paying *might* be acceptable - but not with a dog in the car. What if it jumped on the baby?! Madness.

Terrible to leave a dog in the car, even worse to leave a dog in the car with a baby, but to actually leave a baby unattended in a car is criminal!   The baby should be taken from them and fostered!!!

How can you possibly say that! - that would really be in the best interests of the child!

Surely the best approach is to re-educate the person on why they shouldn't do this?

Well maybe you are right, it just makes me so angry that anyone can be so irresponsible I guess!
Yes, re-educate them - but I would have thought that maybe a parent should already know the reasons why they shouldn't do it!

Why is it so terrible to leave a dog in a car? I understand not leaving them in on hot days and so on but what if your dog panics at home but will sit happily for hours in your car when you go out? Surely it's no different leaving your dog unattended in a car and unattended at home?
Becky

Well, the way I see it is that dogs can be left in the car with the windows open slightly for maximum of about 1-2minutes no longer - long enough to pay for petrol at the petrol station and still in sight.  At home they are in safer surroundings and less likely to come into danger.

Babies should never be left anywhere unattended!

My kids are now older nearly 8 and 11 and I do leave them in the car, with the dogs while I nip into the shop to get some milk etc but that for 5 mins at the most. I wouldnt dream of leaving them together when they were younger.
As for leaving dogs in cars.
When I first got Beano and when Gemma was emergancy spayed I had to take Beano to work with me. As, and Gwen will confirm this, Beano Howls when left on his own without somebody or another dog for company. This meant that I couldnt leave him on his own and mum looked after Gemma after her op and couldnt look after Beano as well as he needed to be kept away from her(Too bouncy)
So both times and quite alot inbetween just for the hell of it he has come to work with me.
He sits in the work van all day listening to music. We are in and out of the van all day(Landscape gardening business) and Beano curls up on the seat where I leave him and is very content!!!! He is taken out every hour or so and break and lunch to have a cuddle, stretch his legs etc and then jujmps back in and curls straight back to sleep!!!!!
The van is always outside a house either on the drive or straight outside the gate.
Am I wrong to take him to work because he is left in the van. I dont think so. Would rather that then leave him at home distressed because he is on his own.
Lea :)

I leave Nips in the car for brief periods - and certainly longer than 1-2 minutes. Obviously this is never, ever, when the weather is warm and never without the windows being open but, during cool weather, if we've been out for a long walk and I need to pop in and get a couple of items from the village shop he stays in the car. He just stretches out on the parcel shelf and goes zonko.

I wouldn't ever leave a very small child (let alone a baby) in a car with a dog though.

It sounds as if you have worked this out quite successfully!  

I can only speak for myself, but there is no way I would be able to relax leaving my dog in a car or van if out of my sight, as I said that is my opinion and what I would choose to do.

I'm unusual I think, as I wouldn't leave my dog in a kennels when I go on holiday either (and no I don't think there is a problem with kennels) It's just that I couldn't relax, I have to know they are with someone they know and are used to - otherwise it would spoil it for me and not be worth going away!   But that's going off the subject now.

It is wrong to leave a baby in a car unattended - with or without a dog it's still a definite NO NO!

 

I leave our dogs in the car unattended sometimes. As has already been said, I wouldn't do it in hot/warm weather. I see nothing wrong with leaving them for up to, say, 20 minutes. We usually do it when we are out for the day and have popped into somewhere to visit an estate agent or get a quick bite to eat. Ours make enough noise if anyone walks by the car, let alone try to steal them,

Life is full of risks and as long as you have evaluated them then I don't see any problems. But then I let my 11 year old son go, by himself, to stay with friends in Croatia when the war was on :D :D

Daisy

I'm too scared of my dog getting stolen if left in the car alone :(

Lots of people have more than one child. I'm just trying to work out the logistics of getting two toddlers strapped into their car seats and then having to unstrap them to go and get the baby to put into the car. If you couldn't leave them in the car alone for a couple of minutes you could be there all day getting children in and out and never go anywhere. As for getting them all out and into pushchairs etc, and the dogs out as well, to go and pay for petrol, then put them all back in again ...

Um, you take toddler plus baby to the car at the same time... baby is normally in a carry car seat so you place that in and instruct toddler to get in. Strap baby in, then toddler - then get in the car :)

I can't imagine many people taking 2 toddlers plus a baby and a dog out for a walk in a car alone - the logistics would be too difficult. One toddler, plus baby and dog behind dog guard would be reasonable.

My niece had a boy and twin girls all under two; it simply wasn't possible for her to manoevre all three at once - she didn't have enough arms!
We're not just talking about going for a walk - how about driving to visit family? You're going to have to stop for petrol at some stage, and with your car laden with children, dogs and luggage you're not going to unload everybody when you go to pay, are you?

I only have to drive down the road to visit my family :)

The original post was about someone going shopping and leaving a baby in a car with a jack russell. Are you suggesting thats acceptable? Thats a big difference between popping into a petrol station. I tend not to leave my kids in the car - seen cars burst into flames before now, or locks jam, or people run into them whilst stationary - too risky. My choice :)

>I only have to drive down the road to visit my family

My niece had to drive over 100 miles to visit hers. :)

Without knowing the temperament of the dog I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to whether it's acceptable. But obviously the owner of the dog/baby know it, and trust it. Personally I think a baby would probably be safer left in a car with a well-trained family dog than with an older child! But yes, I'd leave a child in a car with a trustworthy dog for a short time in a safe place - and the car park of a farm store (if it's anything like the ones I visit! - is as safe as can be. :)

Are you serious? I would never leave a dog unattended with any child - and on the various threads on the board about the rotties etc the parents have been lambasted for doing just that. And thats without leaving a baby in a car too!

Just as an aside - these days its very easy to take baby shopping. Car seats come out nad fit on the top of wheels, that come up and fold down at the touch of a button. Its easy and there's just no excuse for leaving a baby in the car to go shopping IMO :) If anythign happened I would never ever forgive myself.

I wouldn't leave a baby in the car while I went around the supermarket, of course. But parked outside the bank while I went to the cashpoint, or in the car on the petrol station forecourt while I went to pay, or by the letterbox while I got out to post a letter, then yes. No problem. The baby would spend more time unattended overnight while (shock!) I was asleep, than it would in those circumstances.

Absolutely serious. I trusted my dogs with my baby more than I'd trust other children. :) Just as I'd trust my husband, but not necessarily anyone else's, with my child. :)

I know it's only TV, but did you see the Casualty storyline on Saturday, where the older child smothered the baby? Fiction, but based on reality.

I do agree with you there JG  my friends 4 yo daughter almost strangled my son (2 months) I had only just left the oom for 5 mins in next room with door open... all because she was trying to cuddle him poor boy was turning blue at the lips!
I would trust and do leave my children with blade (16 month old dobe) but I don't leave my youngest child with the new puppy alone as she is still very jumpy!!

will probably get shot now for that! but i can honestly say I trust my dogs

It's probably, statistically, far more dangerous taking the baby for a drive in a car, than leaving it in a locked car for a few minutes :) We take risks every day without even thinking about :)

Daisy

I've been quite shocked reading this post and am thinking back to my childhood.  My parents would leave myself and my brother in the car for ages when they went shopping.  We would be left in the supermarket car park with the instructions not to open the doors for anyone.  the keys would be left in the engine so we had music and they would merrily shop and we would carry on in the car.  How times have changed and I'm only 29.

I have never taken my kids out of the car to pay for petrol, I can see them from inside and am only gone a minute or two.  I have popped into the local shop (tiny corner shop) and left them in the car where, again, I can see them.  I have also left them in the car with a dog,  again, where I can see them,  take them away and find foster homes now quick :rolleyes:

Ditto!

Shock horror - my son (18 months) plays with both my dogs!

I stop at the petrol station and leave my son in the car and both dogs and get out and leave them their when I pay - stop me I must be a bad parent!

People need to stop being so judgemental on this site - yes it may have looked bad that the people left the jack russell in the car with a very young baby - however none of us know the circumstances - they could have been looking on the entire time from within the shop for instance.

Yes, it's absolute madness to suggest that you should unload child and dogs (which probably wouldn't be allowed in the shop anyway so would have to be tied outside - tut tut how dangerous :rolleyes: ) from the car while you go and pay for your petrol. Sometimes a reality check is needed.

Thats right. Anyone with any sense would ensure they had enough fuel in the car before going out alone with baby and dogs, or take the baby in the shop with them. You're right - sometimes a reality check IS needed. What about if someone approached the car and the dog jumped on the baby? I can't believe what I am reading here. If an owner left a rottie in a car and it bit a baby the owner would be caned on here for leaving a child unattended with a dog :rolleyes:

How do you ensure you have enough fuel in your car if you don't go to buy it? You can't leave the baby and dogs home alone while you go - they have to come too.

This discussion is becoming bizarre.

What do you think that women did before baby carry seats where invented ??? If I dropped my son off at playschool and daughter was asleep in the carrycot in the back of the car, there is no way that I would have carried the carry cot with me AND held a toddler by the hand AND opened doors !!!! How many people on here have ever had anything bad happen to their baby whilst leaving it for a few minutes in the car. Sorry, Chloe - totally unrealistic not to leave babies in cars for a few minutes. Don't know about dogs as didn't have a dog when mine were babies.

Daisy

Those were the days when we left our baby in the pram outside the shop with the dog guarding it, Daisy!

I never left my children outside a shop in their prams and that was some years ago.  I remember once being told to take the pram out of the shop by an assistant - needless to say I never shopped there again!    I used to take one of my daughters into school and would carry my younger daughter if she was awake or asleep!

I guess an important point is the ages of the children!

It is a matter of choice - how we take care of our children, and our pets, I'd never tie a dog outside a shop either, just in case someone stole him or hurt him in any way!  I know it's inconvenient sometimes, but better to be safe than sorry - in my opinion! :P

What suits one doesn't suit another, whether we think it's right or wrong to leave a baby in a car by itself or with a dog.As I said, I'd leave a dog for a couple of minutes in a car as long as I could see him, but young children never!

And as for running out of petrol with children in the car, I'd make sure I had a full tank before the journey, and if it was a long journey then I'd take them in with me to pay! :)

I too used to leave my GSD bitch with baby in pram outside shops while I went in! 20 years on some people still remember her because of her perfect temperament, she was a dog in a million. Mind you when he grew up into a toddler I was always very sensible, my son had to be watched, not the dog!

>Sorry, Chloe - totally unrealistic not to leave babies in cars for a few minutes

Whatever Daisy. Last time I looked I have a baby and you don't at the moment so I think I am more than qualified to comment, thanks.

Its not only bizarre JG - its boring. Infact, its a bit typical of this site at the moment - arguing over every tiny detail. And seeing as I seem to be getting as bad as others at it I think I might just bow out of this inane discussion and go watch some paint dry or something :D

Ooh - what colour paint? ;) :D