For anyone that needs an unbiased opinion on vaccinations/boosters there is an excellent article in the November edition of Dogs Today which is out now.

No I'm not advertising the magazine, it's just that there is so much interest in the subjuect on this forum, so some of you might find it helpful! :)
Maria

I've just got part way through that - about leptospirosis, yes? :)
Very interesting, I still have to finish it as I was so tired last night after an Indian meal out, I fell asleep! :P

Lindsay
x

Will take a look later. Just been reading your website!

I don't usually buy magazines but this one was prominently on display at Waitrose and the vaccination article headline jumped out at me! Mainly because Nips has just had the call for his first annual booster vaccs and I'm still far from decided about what to do. If I could stop having the sort of silly week that means I get into bed, pick up the mag and promptly fall asleep with it over my face then I might find this article helpful!

Maybe if you are undecided Roz titre tests could be the way to go?

Not much use for Leptospira as I understand it, Maria, which, together with parainfluenza, is all that is due in this first booster.
I would go anyway to the vets, Roz, as a annual checkup is a good move, I think, with animals and discuss it with him.  It is unlikely that any vet will not be aware of all the issue surrounding this not to mention any particular concerns in your geographical area so probably the best person to advise.

No test for Lepto at the moment Isabel you are right.
Can titre for the others though and although Intervet and NOAH etc say to have a first booster - the Professor at Glasgow uni says this is not the case!  Also with Lepto, it may be worth considering not to do the Lepto as this is the one that causes most adverse reactions and only protects (according to some specialists) between 3 - 7 months so for part of the year they are not protected anyway - also doesn't cover all the servars - is it worth the risk ? 
That's why I posted about the article - it's worth a read!

Yes there is a test for Lepto at the moment as both my dogs have had it this year along with titre tests for everything else.
Idexx is the lab that will titre for Lepto as well as the other diseases.
After losing my last two dogs to auto immune disease almost certainly caused by vaccinations I will NEVER routinely vaccinate again but test first to see what they need and only have that done if necessary.

Bev

Bev, thanks for this information!

I remember you posting this at the time bevb but I still don't understand how it is possible.  What was the result?
Whatever the result, as decay of immunity can be very rapid with this type of vaccine, how do you know the result will be relevant even a month later?

how do you know the result will be relevant even a month later?

Exactly the same as the vaccine!

Are your experts saying one month now? ;)

Are your experts saying one month now?

Not my experts Isabel, but the experts do say that protection could be between 3 - 7 months but doesn't cover all the servars - so I understand that as the dog could possibly be protected from 2 servars for 3 months (maybe 7) but not protected from all the servars!

I  know it's confusing, that's why I think it would help to read the article!:)

Not your experts maybe but not the experts either.  I'll take the annual vaccination period of 1 year as recommended by the combined efforts of all research and experts and hope I get at least the 7 months of cover over the majority of strains :)
Rather than read isolated articles I think it better to let those trained to interpret all the data produced to guide us.

I'll take the annual vaccination period of 1 year as recommended by the combined efforts of all research and experts and hope I get at least the 7 months of cover over the majority of strains

Just 2 of the strains Isabel, not the majority and not necessarily the strains found in the UK either!

>could possibly be protected from 2 servars for 3 months (maybe 7) but not protected from all the servars!

That's just an opinion.
I think I will stick to the findings of all the opinions from the specialists.

Rather than read isolated articles I think it better to let those trained to interpret all the data produced to guide us.

The article was requested by a PR company of the vaccine manufacturers so I thought you would find it interesting as they appear to be the experts you listen to :)

It is interesting but it doesn't alter the fact that lay people cannot really view all the information and are ill equiped to form definative opinions.  If the vaccine manufacturers have got the article I am sure it will have gone into the process of evaluation with all the others :)

If the vaccine manufacturers have got the article I am sure it will have gone into the process of evaluation with all the others

It's the vaccine manufacturers views and is written by them, the PR company just do what they are paid for and contact the magazine and 'fancy the story up a bit'! :rolleyes:

Take a look at it and then make up your mind about it! :)

Oh I see what you mean now

>It's the vaccine manufacturers views

Actually I haven't read the article just the editorial in the supermarket because I can't bring myself to pay Beverly Cuddy any money :p but what I read there was the vaccine manufacturers approached them to print an article in view of the current disease outbreaks but that this was the magazines response ie to write an article giving other perspectives so I'm not sure that the end result was "written by the manufacturers" although I would hope their contribution was included or even that the magazine did "fancy the story up a bit" nor do I remember reading that they had actually been asked to do that that rather than the companies just expressing a concern that the public should know that disease was out there and, quite reasonably, sugggest that people should be considering their vaccination policies.

Isabel, if you feel that "decay of immunity can be very rapid with this type of vaccine" and are throwing doubt on immunity still being there in a month's time, is there any point in giving it in the first place?

It is not something I feel :) It is the nature of killed vaccines.  Decay of immunity may be rapid when it reaches the end of the period of cover but it is not expected as soon as it is given!
Intervet: "Lapsed booster"

I remember you posting this at the time bevb but I still don't understand how it is possible.

I've just spoken to the Ivexx Labs and they confirm that they do a titre test for Lepto and the cost is £43.60p

That doesn't really answer my puzzle :)

I paid £36 for testing everything except lepto, this included my vet consultation, taking the blood sending off lab fee and going back to collect and have results explained to me.
I was charged £52 for all the same but including the lepto test along with the test for everything else.. So don't think Idexx could have been charging £43.60 for the lepto alone.

Thanks Bev,  maybe the price I was quoted by Ivexx was for a combined test?

I know when I asked our vet for the price of titre tests they gave one price initially then checked and gave another lower price afterwards!
But I'll check when Jasper's booster is due next May!

Good to know that you can get the whole lot for £52 though.:)
Maria

I KNEW someone told me they had had their dog titre tested for Lepto - wasn't you, was someone else, but was starting to think I was going mad when people were saying there was no test for it.

Do kennels accept titre test results rather than vaccinations?

Rather than the opinion of some specialists I would always prefer my vet to take the course determined by the bulk of the specialists as described in the protocol guidance given out by the veterinary governing body.
Having owned a terrier I would not be inclined to miss out Leptospirosis cover personally.  Even those incompetent at catching rats, no disrespect Nips ;), will still inevitably be drawn to sticking their noses in any rat urine located on their trips, hopefully , outside the house.
The cover may not extend to a full year but that seems more like an arguement for more frequent doses of booster to me :), however Intervet recommend an annual booster.  What I have done in the past though is try to move the annual booster gradually to spring, early summer to ensure the best protection during the peak breeding season for rats when there is, I imagine, a greater risk.

But with a test for Lepto then we don't even need to consider the vaccine!

And many vets request advice and guidance from the eminent Professor that I refer to - so I'm confident in the advice I've been given. :)

If you read my post to bevb you will see I have some doubts about the particular titre test in particular, not that I think any really help in determining the best test to booster rather than just give a picture of current immunity.
I'm glad you are satisfied with the advise you have been given but I would hope vets are continuing to be taught to follow the accepted accademic process.

My dogs came back with very high titre levels for everything except Lepto which showed they had no cover so they have both had the lepto booster.
You don't know with vaccinating against any of the diseases whether or not your dog will then be covered because as with humans there are dogs that don't take up the vaccine and how would any of you know without a titre test.
I always insist that puppy vacs are a must but then titre to see what they need before boostering.
Lepto is known or thought to only last 6-12 months in your dog so for vaccinated ones some will not be covered after 6 months.
Lepto vaccine can be the one to cause the worse side effects though and my dogs are only boostered for this because they come to the stables with me and drink water sometimes that could be contaminated with rat urine.
Any dogs that swim in ponds or lakes or frequent areas where there could be rats should also consider seriously keeping the lepto up to date.
I would rather titre and check and only vaccinate if necessary.
I have out of interest just had another titre done for the lepto alone now they have been vaccinated as I wanted to see how reliable it was and it has come back showing them having a high level of cover now as compared to none when the vaccines were due.
My next question is how long is the vaccine lasting in my dogs as obviously after 12 months they had no cover.  So i am debating whether to do another test in 6-9 months time just out of interest to see what levels if any they have left.

Yes, I can see the point to titre testing at six months, say, if you feel your dog is at very high risk towards the end of the expected average period of cover but because of the nature of the sudden drop off you could find yourself testing pretty frequently during that period. 

I'm certainly taking Nips in for his annual check up and, given that I have a good rapport with my vet, I think I'll just tell him why I'm undecided and ask his advice. The idea of titre testing certainly appeals though.

Roz, if you do decide to go down the titre route, make sure your vet is aware of Glasgow University Diagnostic Services who use one blood sample to test for antibodies for parvo/distemper/hepatitis for £25, whereas other labs may charge more than that to test for just one disease.  I had the health check done when the blood was taken for the titres.

Sounds like a very sensible thing to do Annie!  When your dog had the titre test was the antibody level high or did he have to have a booster? :)

The antibody levels were very high so he didn't need a booster.  :)

Fantastic, just goes to show that we shouldn't listen to all the hype the so called experts would have us believe then!
Will you titre each year or every 3 years?  :)

Surely complete immunity at the end of the recommended booster period is to be expected there is nothing hype about that that is the consensus of opinion, when it will start to drop off is the unknown element.  Titre testing at least yearly after that is the only sensible choice.  Immunity is expected to last three years a minimum of three years not multiples of three years.

We went with the same booster regime that our vet uses on his own dogs, the flu and lepto, then the others every 3 years and I'm happy with that as it seems sensible and not the overkill recomended by the drugs companies or a need for the titre test. Our vet was very good and took lots of time explaining the whys and wherefores. He's intrested in the subject himself and has done a lot of independant research over the years, so whats good for his dogs, is good for mine.

Actually that is the regime recommended by most vaccine companies :)

Do you think I've been duped then

No :) I think your vet is a sensible man and understands the value of going with strongest opinion.

Titre testing at least yearly after that is the only sensible choice.

Quite agree, titre testing yearly is the only sensible choice! :)

Idexx do it all from one blood sample too and will include lepto testing.  Glasgow does not do Lepto testing and takes twice as long to get the results back to you.

Very interesting article Maria - thanks for letting us know about it.