Earlier this year my mum bred her bitch, for her 3rd and last time. The past two litters were from same sire and perfect in health, from this last litter she ran on a pup.

'Winston'- a big pup, walked funny, an absolute babe, calm lab and gentle. at the age of 5 months got xrayed- sent them to bristol, came back as awful elbows- the worst they have seen, now Winston has been pts at 5months old, a baby. The decision came after long researched thought, all the vets said the same, he would be on permanemt painkillers and also the operations would really take it out of him- take a year in total to recover, and strict cage rest, not much of a life for a pup...

I blamed all this on the sire not being tested, but the vet said that even if the tests had come back fine- he may have still got it... i just feel so sorry, that he lived a short life. He was fully established in the household, and had a special place in my mums heart.

RIP Winny boy xxx you can run to your hearts content now hun xxx

You poor thing, there's nothing I can really say, except I'm sorry you had such rotten luck.  It's the hardest thing in the world for you, but the best thing for Winston, which is the most unselfish thing I can think of.

I am so vey sorry to hear this. Run free Winston with no more pain xx

how can you blame the sire, its not his fault!!!!! blame the breeder who didnt insist on using a tested sire maybe, but not the sire himself!! Was the dam elbow scored? I know of a litter from two "0" score parents where 2 of the pups had elbow displacia so its no guarantee

Exactly Sam. You took the words out my mouth. This why people put all the effort in to not only bring the tests in but to encourage carrying them out.  To use one untested dog is bad but to go back and do it again is insane as far as I am concerned.   Unfortunately the death of the puppy is on her own hands sadly.

I don't mean to be so blunt but it is just so tragic and a preventable tragedy..

I read it as being that the last litter (which produced this pup) was by a different sire to the previous two litters. The OP doesn't mention that the bitch is tested and that the first sire was tested, but as you say, dogs tested okay can produce affected offspring. Using an untested dog is a gamble - he could be fine, but you just don't know.

You could be right JG. I may have read it as the last two meaning litter 2 and 3. 

You just can't tell people enough about testing. yes there is always a chance but a heck of a lot less with a tested dog and hopefully with a lesser severity.

Very sad for the dog indeed.

sorry- but dont assume things you dont know about.

the first litter and second litter was sired by same dad- tested. dam is tested clear.

then came third litter- different dad- not tested- winston pts. consequence of sire being untested- reason why im angry at various people- mum and sires owners. you dont have to shout about it being stupid- i know full well.

there is a reason why im posting this- to make would be breeders think- not to get sympathy or get guilt tripped. my mum is distraught and realises she may have made a mistake with not getting the sires owners to test him, he was recommended by a vet, so mum thought he had great health... please dont get so presumptious...

>he was recommended by a vet

Unfortunately not many vets are dog-breeders (or cat-breeders, or horse-breeders) and don't have enough room in their brains for all the specialist knowledge required. It's quite likely the sire was in great health - his heart and lungs and kidney function and weight all perfect. That's where the breeder has to be the expert and do the background genetic research; and even then nature has a horrid way of putting a spanner in the works. :(

Poor Winston. And poor you and your family.

sorry- but dont assume things you dont know about.:rolleyes: I am assuming things based on what you have said in your post nothing more nothing less.  No assumptions made whatsoever.

Perhaps I was mistaken in thinking that it was 2 litters from the same dog but the post isn't worded quite 100% clear AND regardless whether it was only one, the bottom line is taking feelings aside it was a very irrisponsible mating.   If you don't expect people to say it on an internet site then you shouldn't have posted it to be honest.  I don't mean to be so blunt but the fact you have accused me of being presumptious and assuming when I am only commenting on the facts , I am going to defend myself. I feel angry reading it myself but for the poor pup. :-(

Whilst I can imagine how you mum is feeling along with guilt on top of it your post initially read like you were blaming slightly others , you have rectified it BUT we can only comment on the wording in the post.  The bottom of the line is the breeder is 100% responsible for the dog selection regardless of who advices one way or another.  The vet is probably passifying your mum by saying the puppy could have gotten it anyway. I think that is also irrisponsible for the vet to say.

my mum is distraught and realises she may have made a mistake with not getting the sires owners to test him, he was recommended by a vet, so mum thought he had great health... please dont get so presumptious...   Presumption is when you guess. I haven't guessed anything. I commented on the facts.  There is no "maybe" about her mistake as far as I am concerned. Some people make mistakes on their 1st litter but with guidance and support shoudn't be doing it on a 3rd litter.   Who is going to defend the pups.

Am I wrong as a caring animal lover to feel mad for the puppies and potentially any other pet buyers out there. 

This poor lovely breed is being distroyed.

Commiserations to your Mother Chrisjack :(  That must have been so hard having kept him long enough to become part of the household, as you say.  Whatever your Mother is suffering at least she should know that Winston will not.

So sad.  Doesn't it seem sometimes that a terrific personality accompanies a serious physical ailment?  Maybe so they (puppy, kitten, child) will get a little extra love and attention in the short time allotted to them?  How lucky he was to have you and your Mum to ensure that love and a minimum of pain.

My IW boy had surgery for severe bilateral OCD shoulder aged 7 months. The two surgeries didn't take much out of him. I did worry about what effect the extended periods of cage rest would do to a puppy's temperament and personality but he took it very well and is now a big sweetie with no hang ups and no socialisation problems. He is also as sound as a bell and is a nippy lure courser. We do appreciate that he may get arthritis when he grows older, but we will deal with that when it happens.

I realise that Winston may have been in different circumstances, but I wouldn't like anyone to think OCD is always a death sentence or a life on painkillers. Surgery can work very well indeed.

thanks, but at 5 months old he weighed over 6 stone, not fat, just very big bones, the weight was the problem, even if he lost every ounce of fat the joints would still be under huge pressure.

i  dont blame the actual dog! it just meant i believe this illness cam from his line. the dam was tested and sound. i part blame my mum- even though i dont hold anything against her of course, but she should of made them test??? anyway, i just feel for our little laddie.

i wanted to post this to warn people who are thinking of breeding willy nilly- if it isnt done with GREAT care and research- you will cause unneccessary hurt and pain. please take this sad story of our Winny and think before you go ahead.

thanks xxx

What a sad tale and it is good that you are highlighting the problem :) Lets hope would be breeders read this but think it will take a lot more to stop this sort of thing happening. Your mum has learnt a very hard and painful lesson :(

Run Free Winny :)

Lucy
xx