I was just walking the dogs in the field, which is very exposed arable land which is usually pretty empty. Half way round this jogger suddenly came right up behind me before either me or the dogs had noticed. Of course once he drew level with me the dogs noticed and both ellie and murphy rushed up barking at him. I grabbed hold of them and apologised that we hadn't heard him, but now i'm not quite sure what to do. THey don't routinely bark at joggers, ellie is partially sighted and has a tendency to bark at anything sudden or out of the ordinary and murphy just backs her up, but how can i proof them against this happening again, and should i? (THey don't bark at joggers that they see coming towards them.) It suddenly struck me that its a little worrying that a man could come up so close before we noticed, and to be honest i think a man should think a little bit more before he runs up behind a young girl and 3 dogs offlead, i think the dogs were just protecting me and themselves. (he had so much space he could have used but he was about a a metre away). What if he had had bad intentions - which in this day and age is quite likely - i would have wanted the dogs to protect me. However in the eyes of the law it is the dogs that are out of control so what should i do?

The identical thing happened to my OH last weekend :( He didn't know anything about it until the jogger ran past him on a narrow path between fields, nearly knocking him over :( (Jogger was running down hill from behind him). Bramble did nothing, but Tara was in front of OH on a flexilead and she was startled and lunged at the jogger before OH had a chance to get control of her :( She didn't get the jogger but could easily have :( Why didn't the jogger call out as he approached :rolleyes: Joggers really annoy me because they think that a dog will not react when they run right past. Tara is very nervous, but is fine if the jogger is spotted before he/she gets close and we get her into 'watch' mode :)

I'm not sure what the legal position would be on this ?? I've also had joggers running across the fields in the pitch black with no lighting/fluorescent markings. My dogs always have lit collars - why can't joggers ?? :(

Daisy

My friend (who is 5ft nothing and weighs about 8st) was walking her well-behaved, very large leonberger last autumn when a jogger suddenly ran past them - he hadn't called out either - and startled both of them.  Dog immediately barked the deep Leo bark - and took off after him - with my friend digging heels frantically into soft earth, and getting his recall!   It's a good job that he is well trained - or that jogger would have been overtaken quite quickly :)   My friend reckons that he must have run home with brown stains on his jogging bottoms :D!

That'll teach him not to call out before he passes someone walking dogs!

Margot

> That'll teach him not to call out before he passes someone walking dogs

After OH had recovered at home - it had really shaken him up as Tara has been known to nip :( - we took the same opinion :D But I'm not sure what view the police would take if she had got him and reported it :(

Daisy

I think everyone has a right to enjoy their free time as they please (as long as they're not invading someone's privacy) and as far as I know jogging isn't against the law in any of the European countries. I myself happen to be a jogger and I expect to be safe while doing it..... I usually go to places where you don't get to meet many people, but still you can never be completely alone. I do however expect other people to keep their dogs under control. I don't mind a dog barking at me, but if he actually attacked me, it would definitely be the owner's fault!

This is where the 'live and let live' point is made. :) A person's right to jog or cycle is as valid as another person's right not to be alarmed by joggers or cyclists.

Unfortunately it's not unheard-of for joggers to be murdered, so it's sensible for joggers not to run alone. Self-defence advice for joggers around dogs is to stop and walk. Equally joggers should be aware that the sound of footsteps running up behind a person is alarming so a friendly call of "It's all right, I'm not chasing you!" would be polite. :)

joggers around dogs is to stop and walk
It might say that, but I would not be happy having to inturupt a run to walk around a dog. And I would not expect any joggers to have to do it around my dogs.
If your running you run you dont stop start stop start. I have just got back from a 2 mile run and I would have hated it if I had to stop. Apart from anything else you are not doing yourself any favours for stamina.
Joggers should be aware that you dont get too close to dogs, and dog owners should be aware that there are more people than just them and their dogs.
Sorry rant over
Lea :)

Having to share the planet is a pain, isn't it? Still, that's Life! ;) :D

I will certainly understand the mentality of joggers better now ...

Daisy

I'm a bit confused though.... so under UK laws if I am jogging and a dog attacks me there's nothing I can do? If I report the incident to the police, the dog owner isn't responsible? Who does the law protect?

It would depend entirely on the circumstances of the attack. If the dog owner could show that the dog-walker had grounds for believing they could be attacked by the jogger, and the dog was protecting them, it could be that, as well as the dog being required to be kept under better control, the jogger would be found at fault too. Innocent walkers are attacked, sometimes horrifically, so it's sensible for innocent runners to give warning of their approach.

Further to below: UK joggers need to be aware that pepper spray is illegal over here!

You were out and about with your dogs just like any-one else would be. The dogs were doing their job making sure you were safe and that stranger kept his distance from you. Joggers, cyclists whatever. A lot of them are pretty ignorant about dogs and think of them as stuffed toys without emotion, instinct or perception. Well they are not and they do. Perhaps the jogger will show some respect and give distance next time.

I'm glad i'm not the only one, it made me feel pretty awful and embarrassed to start with but then it made me angry, imagine if i had been an elderly woman who was hard of hearing and unsteady on her feet, whe could have had a heart attack! It really worried me as i know ellie wouldn't bite its all noise with her, but murphy is still very much an unknown quantity and although hes never shown any inclination to i don't want to find out. Its very often a problem with cyclists too, and i think by law they should have to make themselves known. The jogger seemed apologetic and did stop (unlike some who just keep running regardless) so that i could grab the dogs. Perhaps he realised it wasn't the brightest thing to do.

OH's jogger didn't stop :( Whilst Tara hasn't nipped a jogger before, she would just bark like yours, she has nipped people before on the odd ocassion (only at home) and we have been working very hard to get control of her when joggers are around - we only let her off the lead in the main fields where we have good vision, as we do get the odd jogger, unfortunately too many to just chance it on paths where we can't see who is coming round the next corner :( OH is almost 60 and his hearing isn't 100% - but the jogger didn't know that and neither of the dogs had sensed him coming either :( Doesn't it make you mad :(

Daisy

agree entirely. we have had joggers trip over my girl when a pup but not stop running. if it were a child would they stop? in our park they even threatened to hit a dog or kick it if it went near them again and it had only barked at them not tried to bite. i now catch my girl in good time if i see one and have to keep my wits about me at all times. i think they should be banned in parks and stick to wide pavements where they can be seen and arent a nuisance!

To be perfectly frank I think any man nowadays who runs up behind a woman is putting himself into a very difficult legal position. Muggers and rapists have been known to dress as joggers.

Thats what i thought JG, how was i to know that his intentions werent nasty, let alone the dogs! I think the fact that he apologised means he probably realised that too. I don't understand why joggers cant just walk past people and then start jogging again a short distance away?

I absolutely detest joggers, they are mine and I am sure many dog owners worst nightmare, I'm lucky now as I live in a place where I very rarely meet one, but in my last home it seemed to be joggers city!!!

I certainly spent half my dog walk recalling and leading my then male dog throughout his puppy/adolescent days.  It is our responsibility to lead our dogs, and I think even if a jogger came up behind us if our dogs were to jump up, scratch, nip or chase we would still be held responsible for it, joggers feel that they should be able to run where ever they want, (which I guess I would feel a right to too) and most won't slow their step or even make themselves known just expect a dog to be put back on lead and not give chase. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Most older dogs loose interest and are so good at recall by then that they would not think it such a great game of chase the jogger :-D but with pups and adolescents it truly is a nightmare and I feel sorry for anyone caught out by one. (I make Joggers sound like aliens :-D)

As to one perhaps being an attacker, I guess that works with all men and women approaching us from front or rear, I would not want my dog to bark or growl at every approaching human and if they have not been trained to do so I would not be too upset that your didn't either. Our dogs are good at sensing our distress and fear, if someone grabbed us those dogs which have a nature to protect will, and anyone mad enough to attack you with three dogs on the loose must be insane, (mind you most are ) so I would not worry too much about that, I would feel pretty safe with more than one dog an attacker can not fend them all off and I doubt would want to try, so relax on your walks you can feel pretty safe.

As to what you should do, I always used to, well still do look behind and infront and all around, always like an owl on my walks, I see everything well before my dog and take appropriate actions, you got caught out this time I doubt you will let it happen again, just get your owl head on for those walks. :-D

Carrington please don't detest all joggers.

I personally used to do lot of jogging, going past many people.  Just isn't nice to be branded as someone with no sense when I have dogs myself and know.  Most of the joggers in my area back home are fine and will give the dogs a wide berth.

Not all are bad.

lol, :-) I do really know that, I actually do also understand that the hardcore joggers are in a rythm and that is why they don't slow down too, it is not just ignorance although it comes across that way, but I still inwardly scream, when I used to see one as my dog could not enjoy his walk and had to be constantly leaded, (I was living in a office mans haven, and there were tons of them and their wives, girlfriends at the weekend and before and after work) if I saw one today, I would properbly still scream and wish them away, they were like a nightmare for me. :-D Help! I need joggers therapy.

I must say - as a dog owner and a jogger (sorry jogger haters, but I am) it wouldn't occur to me to shout ahead to warn people I was there, especially in an exposed open place. As a dog walker I try to be very aware of what's going on around me - mainly because I want to know what dogs are about as mine has a dislike of German Shepherds and I always put him on his lead if I see one.

Val

I dont like cyclists when I am driving my car, but we have to live with them and that is that!
Karen

By law cyclists must have a bell on their bikes to alert others to their presence. Perhaps joggers (in today's dangerous society of random attacks) should have something similar?

By law cyclists must have a bell on their bikes to alert others to their presence
Do they?????
I have recently been told that is a myth. It is not law to have a bell.
Now off to try and find something about it!!!!!!
Lea :)

Just found it.....
From the Telegraph filed 10/09/2006...........................
Figures show that 12 pedestrians have died after being hit by cyclists in the past five years. The number of cyclists killed on the roads rose by 10 per cent last year to 148 - the most since 1999. Current laws require bells to be fitted to new bikes before being sold, but cyclists do not have to keep them on. Ministers want to close the loophole when harmonised European Union cycle construction standards are enforced this autumn.
So nope it is NOT the law you have to have a bell.
They are just trying to bring it in!!!!!
And as the article says,...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/10/nbike10.xml if you are just about to hit a pedestrian you would not fiddle around with the bell, you would be bellowing at them from your mouth!!!!!
Lea :)

Ah, that's where I was muddled! I knew bikes legally had to be sold with a bell (although most aren't :rolleyes: ) but was unaware that they could then be removed. Hopefully the loophole will be closed within a few weeks. :)

Just a point on this Halfords sell one in 3 bikes in the UK and 95% have a pre-delivery inspection as part of that a bell is fitted as standard. The rest of the bikes are non delivery inspected and so are sold unbuilt at the customers request. Therefore don't have a bell fitted but are provided for the customer to fit :)

I've bought bikes from Halfords in the past that didn't have bells fitted. I haven't seen a bell on an adult's bike (whether on display or on the street) for very many years.

JG they do it now so if they don't then do let me know as Mike is a Senior Manager at the Head Officed and will take this up if anybody finds a store that doesn't do this ;)

We bought a bike for Indigo from there back in July for her third Bday and it had a bell fitted :)

The little children's bikes always have a bell or a hooter. :)

I don't like cyclists when I'm in my car, and I don't like car drivers when I'm cycling. No pleasing some people, is there! :D

He, he and the other way around.... when I'm on the bike, I think most drivers are idiots! But I guess that's life, world is not perfect and we all have to live with each other! ;)

I used to be a runner until my kneecaps crumbled and I don't think I would have been able to shout breathing enough to stay alive was hard enough :-D I have to say that I hated dogs who ran at me and tried to trip me up. I could have easily injured myself or the dog. I have taught my dog to move over and sit whenever a bike or runner goes past and not to chase them under any circumstances. He's safe, they're safe and I'm helping to ensure that I can keep walking my dog off-lead in the area. The path is there for everyone to use.

> The path is there for everyone to use.

Definitely - if you know that they are there :)

Daisy

I always call my dogs in and put Molly on lead and tell the boys to lie down if I see a jogger coming.In return I don't think it would hurt them to nod thanks or even slow down for a few strides

what i dont get is that joggers never seem to negotiate a path, say if im walking on one side with dog and stop to wait, if they are on the same side they get angry that they have to go on otherside...they cant expect to have a route that is clear of people and dogs if they choose to jog on public pathways?

I bet they hog the centre lane of the motorway when they drive too. Arrogant, ignorant swine. (No offence!)

ooh get you jg!! hehe :p

Have this problem with the cycle walkway so no longer use it sicne I had more than two dogs.

I taught the dogs the word bike so that they would move to my side when I shouted, but hard to do in time when they come up behind you.

It still works in the country park where strictly speaking they aren't supposed to cycle.

I absolutely detest joggers, they are mine and I am sure many dog owners worst nightmare, I'm lucky now as I live in a place where I very rarely meet one, but in my last home it seemed to be joggers city!!! mad
Are you suggesting that we turn into a nation of completely unsporty, unhealthy people just so dog walkers can walk their dogs in peace? I am a dog walker myself but I also enjoy relaxing in the field and jogging....... it makes me feel much better and healthier and believe me, it works wonders for my selfesteem and good body image! ;)  We all have the right to spend our free time in the most relaxing way possible!

Lucy

Why should the jogger warn you?

Just because some people have dressed as joggers to commit crimes why are all joggers to blame

I have to say that the comment is almost offensive.

Surely if you are worried about this you should be aware of what is going on around you?

On a plus note my lab used to routinely knock over joggers when i used to let her off the lead in my local park so I stopped going.  I always took the opinion with the jogger that he can see my dog coming so can take action :)

The dogs are just doing what comes naturally - they were being protective off you.

Common courtesy?

We have it all the time here when we are riding. Racing bikes flying up behind us, not slowing down to overtake, no warning they are coming. One day they are going to cause a nasty accident. Ironically they go past faster then cars or motorbikes do!

When walking on a narrow pathway is it not too much to ask a jogger to slow or shout "excuse me" on the way past? If some bloke ran right up behind me close enough for Phoebe (who walks to heel off lead) to growl at then I'm afraid I wouldn't reprimand her at all. I am bored with political correctness and when walking past a male on the canal towpath I hold her collar, allow her to growl at them and stare them right in the eyes! Personal safety comes first all the way with me ;)

Absolutely Chloe.  It doesn't take much to let us know they're around!

Last week I was walking in the woods along a fairly narrow path, I just looked up in time to see about a dozen moutain bikers hurtling towards me.  Luckily Remy listened and came the instant I called him, or there would have been a horrific accident - the bikers made no attempt to warn me, and the lead biker only went so far as to shout "dog walker!" when he was literally a couple of feet away.  On the up side, some of them did say thanks as I waited for them to pass - more than can be said for the joggers we meet.  When I jog myself I make a point of thanking anyone who has to wait for me to pass - and I slow down if I see a dog, as I've no way of knowing whether it will ignore me, chase me or want to say hello.

On the jogging note - I got a bit miffed a few days back on a walk, the dogs were a little way ahead of me on a little-used road (we were walking along it to get from one field to another) when a jogger was heading towards us, the dogs ignored him until he was level with them then Remy just turned slightly to catch a sniff as he passed - I called Rem, but the jogger stopped completely so of course Rem ignored me to get a better sniff, to which the jogger turned to me and said "control your dogs!" fair enough, Remy didn't recall when he should have, but all he did was sniff.  I think it irritated me more because it was the one time I didn't get hold of their collars, normally I always do - I figured the width of the road would afford us enough space, seeing as he didn't have a dog.  I'm more careful than before now - if it's possible! - but I'd much rather he'd shouted "call your dogs!" before Remy went to sniff him, really.

Live and let live.  I don't expect joggers to warn me that they are approaching on the other hand I don't feel overly guilty when a jogger overtakes me unexpectedly and my dog then barks and runs alongside for a few moments.  It's happened a few times and I just call out "Sorry, didn't see you coming".  Not had any negative remarks so far although can't hear what they might be mumbling under their breath :D

I agree. But I wouldn't gallop my horse past a walker or a jogger on a footpath - so live & let live but BE POLITE AND CONSIDERATE :D

just out of curiosity you mentioned that you are walking dogs along side a field and your dogs are off the lead.  Are they keeping to the path?

As it could be that the jogger was just using the footpath and not the field which is private property?

Um, no I didn't - are you replying to the wrong person?

>I agree. But I wouldn't gallop my horse past a walker or a jogger on a footpath - so live & let live but BE POLITE AND CONSIDERATE

I can well remember doing some serious training when the dog was a pup and thought the best way to deal with mountain bikers on the Downs was to run through the wheels of their bikes! Because basically, they have as much right to be up there as I do and if Nips had caused an accident then I'd have been responsible. Things were always easier when the cyclist sent a cheery greeting rather than biking up silently and taking me and the dog totally by surprise though!

The same live and let live principle goes for joggers who should be able to jog around without dogs interfering with them. However, it's all down to HOW people approach you rather than the fact that you are sharing space with them. Just before I went on holiday we had a rather spooky experience in the woods when Nips suddenly barked and went through the fence into an adjoining field where I realised I was being watched very carefully and very silently by a chap who appeared to be following my footsteps.

I'm mainly as tough as old boots but I was distinctly unnerved by his behaviour and the dog was keen to keep himself between me and the silent watcher. He showed him no aggression or even went very close to him but was suspicious for all that although I suspect that if the bloke had come armed with evil intent AND a bone, the dog would have had a crisis of conscience!

After we'd got out of the woods, the chap remained in the field and simply sat down. When I got back to the village I ran into a friend who promptly sent one of the farmers up there in his Landrover packed with assorted dogs and it turned out that he was a landscape artist. However, he got a thoroughly good telling off for the way he'd conducted himself since while it was perfectly OK to paint up there, it was not OK to skulk around giving women and small dogs the abdabs!

I'll assume you're asking me that - never mind if you're not! - yes, my dogs were keeping to the road, when we walk down that bit they stick right to one side by the grass until it comes to move into the next field, then they cross to it when I give them them go-ahead.  The jogger was on the other side of the road.  I'm not saying the jogger was jogging where he shouldn't be, and hands up from me, Remy didn't recall - I'm just saying that it would have been easier all round if he'd have said "call your dogs" before any sniffing occurred, rather than having a snark at me after the event.