I came across this site, it's about St Bernards being bred for human consumption in China. Click the links but be warned, some of them are very graphic. They show a dog slaughter house. http://www.aapn.org/peixian.html

http://www.aapn.org/stbernard.html this is articles about eating dogs in China, no graphic pictures.

:-(

I never open these links I'm afraid. Call me a wuss if you like but I can imagine what's awaiting me and I'd rather not go there. Also (and takes cover with tin hat on) I do think it's important to remember cultural differences across the world. We are horrified at the idea of eating dog because we love and cherish our dogs as companions but that's simply not the case in some areas of South East Asia. And is eating dog so much worse than eating any other animal bred for human consumption?

What's important is the method of slaughter. It's always bad (that includes here in the West) if the animal isn't killed humanely (after being raised without cruelty too).

i agree with cultural differences but cruelty is not a cultural difference and the way they treat and slaugther the animals is a discrace :and something should be done to put a stop to it and they dont only use them for meat it's there fur aswell many of them are still alive when they start to fur them and the same with the meat and while ever we all just keep saying it's a  cultural differences what reason have they to stop {none} people not exporting there pup's is going to change anyting and while people keep turning a blind eye it will never stop and animals will keep on being the one's to pay the price and suffer maybe if everyone looked at the picture's and video's of what happen's to the animal's over in them parts of the world they would no doubt change there minds about it just being a  cultural difference !!! {and thats my thoughts on it }

I agree.  I find it strange in the UK where we have native Ponies that really are surplus to requirements that we don't utilise them for free range helthy meat, but instead get all in a lather about them being sent abroad to be eaten. 

I of course agree entirely that the conditions they are shipped in and the treatment during this if bad should not be tolerated.

Personally with modern refrigerated vehicles I don't see why any animal destined for slaughter shoudl be transported anything but the minimum distance to local slaughterhouse.

Native ponies are used for meat already. They are over bred in huge numbers, dragged in from the hillsides, take from their mothers and sold direct to the meatman for a tenner upwards at the sales. They are worth nothing, are absolutely petrified and mostly in bad conditions - it would be better off to stop them breeding so many as it all seems pointless to me.

Is it any worse than dairy calves though?

dairy calves fetch a lot more than a tenner a piece....

Do they?  I must say I don't know much about the native pony issue.  Why do they allow them to breed?  The stallions must be a bit of a nuisance.  I remember as a young thing going for a trek in the New Forest and we got chased by one which was pretty scarey   Would less stallions do the job or would each one just get about more!

Yep, they do. Even lambs fetch £90 a piece here in Spring when sold - the price drops to £60 odd after. But then lamb is more palatable than scrawny welsh sec a off the hills in wales. They allow them to breed because they still get that much - and when they are taking 100 or so a trip then I suppose its easy money for them.

In the NF I believe they are rounded up and sold more as riding ponies - they are usually better condition and NF's fetch good money as childrens ponies. Welsh tend to be more opinionated and less for the average child - and NF's are usually registered and these welsh are not. I know that they tend to manage the herds in the NF with certain stallions running wither certain groups of mares and they are rounded up and the foals removed at certain times, de loused and wormed etc. I'm not sure the welsh mountain ponies are treated anywhere near the same and end up in a tin of dog meat. I even heard of one breeders who sends substandard colt foals to be fed to lions in the zoo. Can you imagine a dog breeder sending mismarked pups to be fed to crocs etc?!

Well I do like to think we should ensure animals all have a decent life, no matter how short, and a decent death but I must say I have little concern about who eats who once that has been achieved.  Being eaten by a lion actually seems a rather noble end to me :)

Yes, I agree... there is not a lot of difference between them... but remember these foals are not being bred for meat, they are bred to make riding horses or show ponies and it seems a very cynical way to operate in that they get culled so young because they are not "breed perfect". I'd rather see them breeding less in the first place!

Under no circumstances should cruelty should be tolerated on the grounds of cultural difference but, with respect, that should go without saying. My point (and no I don't need my eyes opened by gruesome pictures) was that it's easy to get into a lather about consuming animals that we wouldn't contemplate eating from our cultural perspective. The important thing, IMHO, is to campaign vigourously against unacceptable methods of production rather than the actual consumption end of the business.

Yep that was what I was trying to say.

Also as I understand it horse meat isn't sold for human consumption in the UK,  If it were I would hazard a guess it would be worth the owners while to rear a better quality carcass so the ponies would have a better life while alive.

>I never open these links I'm afraid. Call me a wuss if you like but I can imagine what's awaiting me and I'd rather not go there. Also (and takes cover with tin hat on) I do think it's important to remember cultural differences across the world. We are horrified at the idea of eating dog because we love and cherish our dogs as companions but that's simply not the case in some areas of South East Asia. And is eating dog so much worse than eating any other animal bred for human consumption?

Agree with what you say.  don't get me ron, the thought of eating dog or cat disgusts me, I don't think I chould do it.  However we eat cow where as one religion (I can't remember the religion name) won't even think about killing a cow.

It's all about culture and what we are brought up to believe etc

Now I remember hearing that Rabbit was popular meat in this country many, many years ago (? or am I a fool and I'm getting things confused) but now-days you never see it anywhere.

>However we eat cow where as one religion (I can't remember the religion name) won't even think about killing a cow.

There are other religions that kill without stunning first, by cutting the throat and letting the animal bleed to death. That, to me, is barbaric - whilst they see it as cleansing I believe? Its all about perception :(

I don't know if anyone noticed but they beat the St Bernards first, they reckon that the adrenelin makes the meat tastier.Barbaric in my book, nothing to do with interpretation.
A patitian with 11,000 names has been lodged with the chinese government. The St Bernard is the national symbol of Switzerland so needless to say they're none to impressed.

Yep used to buy diced Rabbit in Iceland (though I think it was imported) up to the early 80's and there is still a Rabbit meat industry here, but it isn't very profitable, especially with the worry over Myxi, and now the bleeding virus.  Imagine vaccinating all the bunnies makes it totally unprofitable.

Rabbit was very popular during the war (if you caught it yourself it didn't come out of your meat ration) and many people kept a hutch of rabbits in their back gardens for just that purpose. There are still rabbits in many butchers' shops - usually they're sold ready-skinned so you possibly wouldn't recognise what they are!

>Now I remember hearing that Rabbit was popular meat in this country many, many years ago (? or am I a fool and I'm getting things confused) but now-days you never see it anywhere.

My mother used to make a superb rabbit pie. Again, it all goes back to wartime and when while my mother and grandmother still lived in the country they was a ready supply of fresh rabbit that didn't come off the ration.

I wish I could get hold of fresh rabbit nowadays and was rather hoping that the dog might oblige given his breed. So far, despite great enthusiasm for hunting the bunnies all he's delivered me was a very long dead and distinctly unappetising one that had to be thrown into the river!

The problem with the dogs being killed for consumption is that the cultures believe that the more terrified the animal is, the better tasting the meat

In many cases, the slaughter of the dogs is actually illegal for that country, but the "law" does little about it. I support the International Wildlife Coalition, which works with the governments and other agencies. No matter what the culture, dogs kept ready with tin cans around their muzzles and forelegs tied behind their backs is to me unacceptable, and that is before they are beaten to death with a shovel or piece of wood. Dogs usually see the others being killed, and are surrounded by the smell of it, often for days. And it goes to say that it seems they are not fed or given any exercise or food but kept squashed impossibly into spaces much too small for the amount of dogs.

Personally I think it's wrong to kill a companion animal - however I know many will disagree.

Lindsay
x

I think its wrong to keep or kill any animal in such a way - disgusting. But when a country has a poor human rights record - what chance do the animals have?!

I just cannot look at this link.I opened the last one about the fur trade abroad and it made me ill for days.

No, I am not opening it either.

Lindsay's description is I'm afraid all too true - and in some cases even worse - the one trip that gave Trevor nightmares for months after was to the dog meat markets of Korea - the slaughter still goes on despite WSPA and others campaigning for over 10 years - the solution lies in educating the new generation - dog meat is eaten by the older men as an aphrodisiac and because they believe that it helps to heat the blood - the more the dog has suffered before it's death the more beneficial it's meat will be - cats too are boiled alive in giant pressure cookers and the resulting juice drunk as a kind of tonic.

Thanks to education programmes and pressure put on the governement it is gradually dying out but ST Bernards are still being imported from Europe to be used in the dog meat farms to breed bigger more placid 'livestock' - they are crossed with the native Jindo to produce the 'dog meat dog'.

Yvonne

What sort of people breed dogs like this to go to this sort of death?

The sort who haven't been taught that animals have valid feelings. The ones who think a scream from an animal is of no greater significance than a squeak from a rusty gate. :( :(

The boiling alive is a bit of a dodgy issue - anyone who's eaten crab or lobster will have condoned the boiling alive of a living creature. :(

I just think its disgusting. To breed, grow and ship these animals out and then put them through this pain and agony before death is inexcusable

Does a crab or lobster have the same pain receptors as a cat or less?

>Does a crab or lobster have the same pain receptors as a cat or less?

I don't know. I'm told that the pan lid has to be weighted down to stop them trying to escape, so I imagine they don't like it very much. :( I agree it's vile. But it seems a bit hypocritical to condemn someone for boiling alive one species but not another. :( The deliberate causing of pain is just wrong.

However we eat cow where as one religion (I can't remember the religion name) won't even think about killing a cow.
Hindus do not eat Cows, because they are sacred for them. They treat them with respect and let them walk around freely, giving them food and shelter and obviously feel about them in the same way we feel about our cats and dogs.   They must be disgusted to see us breeding cows for meat and transporting them around Europe in big trucks in the middle of the summer. Many die, many are injured and the suffering they endure just before they're slaughtered is beyond their (or my for that matter) belief.

I guess we could blame the culture and crulety of `other` nations, but in the end of the day we have to look at ourselves first and stop animal abuse in our backyards!

Sorry, I know it is compared to other meats and farm animals and should be looked upon no differently, but it just makes me feel physically sick to contemplate eating a dog. That written piece where in a restaurant people chose their puppy to eat and then it is slaughtered, (won't write how for those who did not wish to read) in a horrible way.

If we turn a blind eye to it, it is going to get bigger worldwide I feel as the 'meat' is cheaper to produce, there will be a big fight to ever get it passed in this country, (or is it here already?) as we are dog lovers here. It does scare me though, we already have dog thieves for other reasons, if dog meat is ever passed in this country in years to come or allowed to be sold in some restaurants, with black market traders I don't think anyones dogs will ever be safe.

I'll be at the front with my placard.

I think that if people had personal experience of what happens (not what is SUPPOSED to happen!) in slaughter houses and in chicken production units in this country, then they would be equally horrified. :(

We need to put our own house in order before we start criticising other countries.

From a country which leaves dead baby girls at the side of the road and walk past as if it is nothing,how can we expect them to treat animals any better?? :rolleyes:

I too believe that the way these dogs are reared and treated is a disgrace but as recent events in this country have shown (the blokes from a Bernard Matthews farm playing 'baseball' with turkeys) we can be as bad. Also how do we know that all meat we eat is kept and reared properly??

It's very true about the meat production here in the UK  - thing is, most peeps aren't going to become vegetarian or go for organically produced (and perhaps more humanely killed?) meat. I wish things were different. But I do believe that if anyone feels strongly about a particular issue, then it's important to do as much as possible to help. We can't change the world but we can do little bits in little ways :)

Here's a link to the IWCT - I believe these people do a good job, they are honest, they keep in touch with supporters  via regular newsletter, and you know how the money is spent. The home page isn't very upsetting, it does have one dog in a cage but it looks neglected (you can't see anything else) and there is a photo of Sweet, one of the rescued dogs :) GEnerally on this site, you have to click on photos to see the distressing pictures.

<a class='url' href='http://www.iwctk9.co.uk/index.html'>http://www.iwctk9.co.uk/index.html</a>

Lindsay
x

I think we could do a lot more in this country.  You don't have to buy organic, which has little extra benefit to the animals welfare, but you can stick to free range or at least RSPCA freedom foods, everybody can afford it if they accept the amount of meat we eat these days is totally unecessary, if not unhealthy! and reduce it to once or twice a week.
When the stushy about BM's turkey staff came out I was not in the least surprised but I don't think the blame can lay entirely with the staff or even Bernard Matthews.  Those that demand chickens at 99p each must also accept that that market drives profit margins so low that wages and conditions will be absolute minimal.  What calibre of people is going to be employed, what level of training and supervision is going to be maintained?  It's wrong from the producers side but the consumer has a lot to answer for as well in my opinion. 
We can do more!  Buy free range if you must buy meat, never buy from foreign markets where regulations will be even more relaxed and be prepared to pay for it.

Well said Isabel :)

Lindsay
x

I think it goes further back than that.

The average consumer does not think, and does not want to think, about where their chicken came from or how it was killed. Its a product on a shelf in a supermarket. Someone who is short on money will look at a free range, corn fed chicken at 5.99 and a larger standard chicken at 2.25 and will have the decision made for them.

If ALL the supermarkets only stocked food from farmers who treat the animals well adn slaughter humanely - even if more expensive - folk would either have to buy that or look into cheaper, more vegetable based meals. However, the supermarkets are busy putting butchers, bakers and candlestick makers out of business, blackmailing farmers and basically giving the average consumer value for money - cr*p.

The trouble with the RSPCA Freedom Food system, well-meaning though it is, is that, when it was researched on 'Watchdog' a couple of years ago, even the RSPCA don't know which farms are signed up and can't go and inspect them. I hope the system's been changed.

I'm not sure that many of the large freerange producers are all that either :rolleyes: but I do think supporting any of that sort of things goes a step in the right direction and, perhaps, more importantly sends a message in the buying statistics that welfare is what consumers are looking for.  This moves over to ChloeH point about the "chicken and egg" :p of it all.  I think supermarkets can hardly be blamed for giving the consumer what they want, and really would be want it any different?  I think it is up to us the consumer to indicate what it is that we find acceptable.

Consider other cuts too if price is an issue, it doesn't always have to be breast meat :)
A recommendation:  Sainsburys packs of Taste the Difference West Country free range thighs and drumsticks - a hefty pack of 4 chunky thighs and 4 drumsticks, perfect for Provencal chicken, a feast for four people :), far tastier than anaemic caged stuff and all for a fabby £3.99!!!

> I think supermarkets can hardly be blamed for giving the consumer what they want, and really would be want it any different?

If they stopped giving people the option of buying rubbish - then people would stop buying rubbish! I won't eat thighs or drumsticks - I'd rather go without :D I'm not into the barf diet LOL

You don't have to eat the bones :) 
I used to be a breast girl myself ;) until I tasted these things, must admit I leave the drumsticks to hubby but these thighs are not gamey at all and of course being on the bone they flavour the dish so much more...........not tempting you?  What about if I said it in the Marks and Spencer voice? :D

Isabel, I have 3 chickens. I have seen what they eat and how they each choose a pile of horse manure and rake through it up to their thighs - thats why thigh meat is darker you know! So, even in your best M&S voice "fresh thighs from free range, farm assured, poo picking, worm stretching, snail bashing, slug slurping chickens" is not enough to put me off my nut roast! :D  At least its filtered out a bit by the time its reached the breast :D

:D Perhaps now Myrtle has learned to spell her name properly ;) you could teach her how to wipe her bottom :p

I *knew* you would pick up on that :D She needs a manicure if nothing else.

They don't make life easy mind. Yesterday they raked apart every single pile of horse manure - meaning that it took me twice as long to scrape it up over twice the distance. Then they let themselves into the £25 bale of wrapped haylege and clawed that about - the horses noticed it and knocked the fence down and were merrily tucking in pre-winter and still the flaming things haven't laid one egg!! (the chickens - not the horses) :D

Do you want the recipe for Provencal chicken? :)

I love chicken - we buy the value freezer pack from Sainsbury's. The dogs have any wings or small thighs - we (humans) have the rest casseroled. Tastes delicious :D

Daisy

Call me an ostrich if you like - but I will never look at any of these links.   I know that this goes on, and of course I do not condone it.  But neither do I wish to witness it, even detached from it by computer.    I know that paedophilia goes on.  But no-one in their right mind needs to witness it to condemn it.

Margot

Could I just say that organic status does benefit the animals.  Organic chicken has to be free range, and the farms are inspected by the Soil Association once a year.  We have just bought a farm and are now rearing pedigree Dexter cattle for beef.  We are part the way through the conversion to being organic and our animals and facilities were inspected.