Hi folks

It's about a year now since I began feeding barf and thanks to the fantastic advice that I recieved from all of you it's been the best thing that I could have ever done for my dogs.  I now need some more help as in a few weeks time there will be another addition to the family -  a little collie bitch.  At the moment she's not quite three weeks old but by the time she comes to me she will have been fed on commercial puppy food and I will be changing her diet to barf.  I have several questions to ask.  Firstly should I do this gradually or feed barf straight off?  Secondly should I grind the meaty bones or feed them whole ie. chicken wings, breast of lamb and allow her to tear at the meat or possibly a combination of both? Thirdly is it okay to immediately feed her the foodstuffs that I feed my other dogs - fresh fish, kidneys, heart, liver, tripe, eggs, pulverised veg/fruit etc or introduce these gradually over a period of time? Although I roughly chop these up for the older dogs I would grind them for the puppy.

Thanks

Its really down to personal preference. Some people will say keep her on her 'normal' food until shes settled in whereas others will say do a straight switch. Theres no real right or wrong really.

Personally I do a straight switch and would start off with chicken wings (whole, but obviously supervise her) then gradually introduce other foods. I've got a border collie whos on BARF and she loves it =D My others were all adults when I changed them onto the diet and were much fussier. This little pup eats everything and anything!

Hi :)
I don't see why you can't just do a straight change over? I know mine were adults almost when the change over happened but IF (helen ;) ) I get a puppy I would introduce it to raw straight off :)
Like Giruff says though, just supervise the first time with bones etc, I'm sure it will be fine and if your'e not so sure then 'bash' the wings a few times or hold onto it till the little 'un gets the hang of crunching :)

Straight change over, much easier.

Ive done this now with two pups, one aged 6 weeks, one aged 12 weeks, both took to it really fast and are my least fussy dogs.

You will need to make some changes because pups are smaller etc and you m ight want to make things a little easier to eat at first, so for that, i used AMP minced meat for most meals, with RMBs (chicken wings as both mine were small) as more recreational bones than proper meals (or i found they were still eating breakfast when dinner time came round).

I also stuck to a much less varied diet for a couple of months, gradually introducing new things, so as not to overwhelm a pups digestive system and also so i could see instantly if something didnt agree.

Both my raw fed pups have been MUCH less chewy than pups ive had fed on complete. Housetraining is not as fraughta s it can be either as they dont need to poo so often.

Em

Thanks all for your input, it will all go towards making the transition to feeding barf so much easier.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     theemx,  you say that you stuck to a less varied diet for a couple of months gradually introducing new things, where I can understand the dilema in not overwhelming an immature digestive system is there not a worry that the puppy might develop a vitamin/mineral deficiancy during this time?   The fact that you do a straight change over and that you feed minced meat with RMB's as recreational bones is the answer I was hoping for, I was dreading the idea of having to buy commercial dog food again, circumstances would have to be pretty dire for me to abandon barf even for a short period. Also although I know that RMB stands for raw meaty bones I'm not sure what AMP is short for! 

AMP stands for Anglian Meat Products. They do a lot of packaged meats and minces which can be handy. I use the Natures Manu ready made frozen complete meat and veg mix when my lot go into kennels as its easier than trying to prepare veg/offal mixes and explain what to be fed and when (plus I dont think they're too keen on chicken carcasses). Usually, however, I order from landywoods

I was worried about correct nutrition as my current puppy's diet consists of mainly chicken wings. I dug out my Ian Billinghurst books. It says to feed 60-80% rmbs and it says that chicken wings or necks are the best form to feed as they are from young animals so are softer and easier to chew, and also contain much less toxins.

It also states: "They supply top quality protien, top quality fat, the fat soluble vitamins, some of the B vitamins, plenty of energy and all the minerals your pup requires. The fat in raw chicken wing has an excellent balance of fatty acids plus the fat soluble vitamins your puppy needs. The bone in the raw chicken wings is full of iron containing marrow. This helps build your pups blood and immune system" It goes on to emphasise the importance of the pups eating the bone as this contains all the minerals.

I'd suggest seeing how things go and play it by ear, so to speak. Try her on a chicken wing to start with and see how she takes to it. From my experience puppies are far less fussy than older dogs. I am convinced that we make them fussy, they dont start off that way. You may need to chop it up initially, or pull of a bit of meat so she gets the idea.

If you're doing a straight switch I would suggest feeding mainly chicken initially then slowly introduce other things one at a time. This way if something doesnt agree with her then you know what it is. Our rottie, for example, is allergic to lamb ribs. As you'll know from feeding BARF you dont need to balance nutrition on a daily, or even weekly, basis so if shes feed just chicken wings for a little while it will do her no harm.

With mine, (and do bear in mind that pup one was TINY at 6 weeks hence more need for mushed up foods),
i stuck to two types of AMP mince, and a chicken wing or two a day, and a veg mix made up of just two veg/fruit (i think although im going back 4 years now nearly, that was apple and spinach with a tiny bit of olive oil added).

Theres plenty there for a couple of weeks, then add in something new, then couple more weeks, add in something else.

Second pup was 12 weeks and a bigger breed, so he did get more chicken wings than the first pup.

With both, i left off adding things like fish, raw egg and very fatty rich meat like lamb until theyd been here a month or two as they are a bit more likely to cause the squits.

All in all though i had no problems and like Giruff says, they were not at ALL fussy, and even today, these lads are rising 4 and rising 2, and both will eat almost anything put in front of them (although the younger noe doesnt like pears or peaches whole, but he is strange in many ways that dog).

Em

You do not mention the breed of your puppy but as they have a good set of gnashers by the time they come home (7 weeks or more) there is really no need to grind their food as though they were some toothless baby or invalid.

My last pup was fed on a mixture of commercial and raw before he came home and then he went straight on to raw full time at 7 weeks and managed chicken wings and carcases etc with no trouble (GSD).

It is not food that generally "upsets" dogs but the stress of moving home and new water, so bring a large container of water home from the breeder.

I tend to fade new things in gradually just in case they have any intolerances, (not discovered any in my dogs so far).

Proponents of commercial foods go on about vitamins and minerals in their foods however look at animals in the wild, they get all their vits and mins from their natural diet, in its natural rather than synthetic form, plus most commercial foods NEED added things because cooking/rendering removes them.

Good Luck

My puppy is a border collie so won't have the gnashers that a GSD has so do you think that she will be able to manage chicken caracases?  I have a great butcher who keeps me well supplied with them and for my older dogs they are probably their favourites so that would be great! I will of course feed her chicken wings but will wait a while before introducing lamb if this is too rich.  When I mentioned the worry attached to vitamin/mineral deficiancy I was referring to the suggestion that offal and the like should not be fed for the first two months thus leading to a possible deficit in the required nutrients, although I can well understand the need to introduce these gradually but I feel that in the wild a mother would regurgitate whatever she had managed to kill and devour and the pups would eat with relish and thrive on muscle, bone, offal, stomach contents and anything else that she produced.  Anyhow I have taken on board all of your advice and suggestions and I'm very grateful to you all for sharing your knowledge and experiences and am looking forward now to the day I get her and knowing that (apart from a very short time) she will be fed the best diet that she could possibly have.
Thanks again

My BC's have never had any problem eating Chicken wings, necks, backs, etc etc etc

When our BC puppy arrived I kept her on chicken wings until her stomach settled then introduced her to the basic pattys we feed. She had a little bit of a funny tummy for the first few days but then she came all the way from the scotish highlands!

She still cant manage all the bone on the lamb ribs but has great fun getting the meat off - certainly kept her occupied. Ive actually got some piccys if you look <a class='url' href='<a class='url' href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/giruff/254832161/in/set-72157594259512975/'>http://www.flickr.com/photos/giruff/254832161/in/set-72157594259512975/</a>'>HERE</a>. Chicken carcass bone is soft - shes not any problem with them...well, except they're almost as big as she is ;)

ohhh naughty posting pics of a gorgeous bc puppy...just when I'm trying to convince myself I don't need another one :rolleyes:

how divine?????
lush! is she blue & white? or B&W some of the picciews she looks blue!

3 weeks till my pupsy arrives!

Three weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mish Come on tell more photos photos photos Breeding colour etc etc etc Boy I presume LOL

look in my photo bucket!!!!! ;)

havent chosen yet cos theres two peeps infront of me,

Breeding. Dad is WT CH waggerland mister jake (full brother to Waggerland Fizz dad of the colliewoods & Kathy ingams oddi)

Mum is  Pat Watsons Dizzy, Danesway Double delight @ forever magic, who has one CC this year & a res i think. she is by a FM dog & a kajo bitch. obvisley shes close to flynn through the FM line but also she has the exact same sealight line as him

going again hopefully on thus night

oh & hes going to be csalled Maverick. "Mav"

cracking pups,all B&W all nicely marked

Nice looking babies & I love the name

I'm top of the list for a boy linebred to Rookie in 18 months or so time I tattooed the first litter & they were awesome LOL Even got my ring steward down for a girl from the same litter  ! My first non pure ISDS BC ! Mind you there is ISDS close up & Rookie has lots of ISDS behind him on his paternal side

rookie line pups are fab!

LOLOL well I think they are too as I loved that boy from the first time I saw him at 5 months old !

Yes Michelle, heard that you were having one from the  litter, hav'nt finally decided yet but I think my little girl is probably going to be called Suki

hi ann,did you look at my photobucket to see the pics?

Yes Michelle, I have looked at your photobucket are'nt they lovely!

just added some more from tonight!!!!! :)aged  4weeks tomoorow. they are ALL totally fab! mega lively & keen, tugging already! lush!

she is a blue and white :)

3 weeks - so near and yet so far.

The 8 weeks from birth until I was able to collect my pup seemed like eternity, despite getting to visit her before hand!

what breeding is your pup?

lochiel - heather turner

I wean my Border Collie pups straight onto raw & by the time they leave here at 8 weeks they will eat anything & everything with 2 exceptions ~ they only chew on lamb ribs & chicken carcasses, not being able to manage them. 

I feed Landywoods minces & while here they get, chicken, chicken & tripe, best beef, lamb, tripe, tripe & organ, lamb & tripe, heart, liver, then they also get pilchards & sardines in tomato sauce, eggs, cottage cheese, natural yoghurt, bit of fruit & veg, chicken wings & necks.  They do also get a teeny bit of Natural Choice Holistic Wholebake added to 1-2 meals a day.

I hope this is of some help to you :)  If you want to ask me anything else of would like a copy of the diet sheet I send with my puppies then please PM me.

All the best

Yes borderpride it is of great help and a copy of your diet sheet would be much appreciated but you'll have to excuse my ignorance I don't know what PM means :rolleyes:

Private Message :)  Click on Borderpride's name, then Send Message.

Hi
Don't know if your pup has arrived yet, but just to say that my new addition came this weekend and within 48 hours had made her own choice of food!  The Royal Canin that she had been weaned on to......null points!  The RMB, minced lamb and chicken wings that my other dog was getting........to die for!  :-)  I had planned to do a gradual change over, checking that the move had not upset her stomach blah blah blah.......however, madam decided that what Number One dog was getting on the other side of the baby gate was FAR superior and so far (touch wood!) appears to have had no ill effects!  The chicken wings keep her occupied for ages too!  :-)

Good Luck.

PS  Thanks BorderPride for your diet sheet.

she should be getting her today!!!!!!