Hi, this is probably a pathetic question, my young 16 month old GSd is very good at obedience except when I try to get him to retrieve a dumbell..he just doesnt want to know.  He is so ball orientated (probably my fault) that he will not pick a dumbell up no matter how hard I try.  I have noticed many different types of dumbell, the question is can you use a rubber dumbell if he was to enter any obedience show - or does it have to be the hard type.

I can't help with the technical stuff but when my afghan wouldn't put the dumbell in his mouth, I was advised to put elastoplast around the bar.  He had no problem with picking it up after that. :)

Or string I think too?

Yeah I have used string round the middle - have you tried the ones that are bright pink, yellow or orange?  I don't know what it is about them but my dogs love them, not only for recall but they chew them for ages and the things last ages - maybe it's something they taste of?  Not sure if that's the sort you are referring to however?

The one I have is bright pink...but wont touch it, perhaps if I wrap something round it as suggested it may work !!!!

You need to teach retrieve for competition in three parts really

I start with the hold which you need for the present & bringing the dumbell or article back. I hold the dumbell with my hands either side of the ends & offer it to the dog sayng the retrieve command which for me is "fetch"If your dog makes no effort to touch the dumbell try making a game of it by gently teasing him by offering it then taking it just out of reach Most dogs will be tempted to reach out for anything you offer then take away & as soon as my dogs get hold of the dumbell with me still holding it I praise & reward. I gradually lengthen the time the dog holds the dumbell until they can do so for around 30-45 seconds

I then go to part 2 which is the pickup of a static dumbell I leave the dog in a sit then walk a couple of paces away & place the dumbell in a shallow container like a dog dish against a wall. I then tell the go to "fetch the dumbell" as I already have a "hold"command of fetch I hope the dog will put 2 & 2 together(lol they usually do)& go to the dumbell & pick it up-as soon as this happens I run a few paces backwards calling the dog. Not too bothered aboput a spot on present at this stage

I gradually lengthen the distance to the dunmbell until it becomes a full length run out to the pick up LOL I'm at this stage with Rjj at the moment & he's picking up but does a handbrake present & is ending up by my side in the heel position with quite a lot of speed-think he needs new brake pad LOLOLOLOL It's nothing I cannot correct & I would rather he ran out & came back fast & did this than plodded out & back

Once you have a good run out & pick up & return you can work on straightening up the present either by stepping back to get the dog straight or giving a sit command early as he comes in.

The final stage is to throw the dumbell & send the dog & I go back to the short retrieve fot this again against a wall

This is a very simplistic explanation of what I do & no doubt others will come along with totally different methods one of which I am sure will work

As to the dumbell itself it has to look like a dumbell & can be made of anything but those with square ends tend to be better as they do not round so much on landing & are easier for the dog to pick up. They shouldn't have any moving parts tho'(some of the rubber ones have bells in them !)

I managed to teach my old GSD to retrieve a set of key, apparently dogs are not too keen on having metal in their mouths (don't blame them) but in order to try and test her willingness to retrieve items for me she did do it with keys, it took a while and she kept dropping them when she picked them up so we started with keys that had a big teddy on them so she would pick the soft thing up but have the rattle of the keys - it got to the point where she would have any keys regardless of size or what they consisted of - she used to go nuts when my Dad came in from work and take his keys, she would then pace around very proudly with them in her mouth, go and settle and wait until someone asked her to retrieve the keys :D

For Xmas one year she got her own set of plastic keys, they were never damaged - she just held them bless her!

Moonmaiden

How long do you get the dog to sit for before you send him off to retrieve the dumbell? I am finding if I make him sit and wait until the object to be retrieved has landed then he will saunter casually up to it and saunter back again. If I send him out before the object has landed he is more enthusiastic and will run out and back ( not always with the object in his mouth LOL as if he drops it on the way back he will still run back to me regardless).

He is not over enthusiastic about the retrieve to be absolutely honest ( despite being a GR) and I get the impression he is doing it just to please the human rather than because he enjoys it. He loves to play chase and is very enthusiastic at that but not just a retrieve.

The reason I do short retrieves against a wall is the time factor. when I'm judging or stewarding I expect the dog to be sent out two or three seconds after the dumbell has stopped & if you do short retrieves in the beginning the dog has less time to wait

I do occassionally throw the dumbell & then go & collect the dumbell myself to make sure the dog is steady & less likely to anticipate(although to me antication is better than reluctance)

If he's a bit too slow coming back you could try running backwards away from him to encourage him to speed up.

Fast retrieves are nice but there's nothing wrong in a stead dog who can be more precise than a super fast dog.

You can try making his play retrieves real fun by using a tuggy or ball on a rope so he gets to play after retrieving I always use a different command for play retrieves & competition ones

I also go back to basics at times as well doing the hold with lots of praise just for holding the retrieve article

Hi

The stupid thing is Kody will retrieve his ball, although that is usually his reward as it is his most favourite thing in the world.!!, he knows the command "pick it up" and "fetch" but he looks at the dumbell as if it is from outerspace LOL.  Perhaps I will try and get another type or tape it in the middle as some have suggested. I feel as if I am knocking my head against a brick wall - He learns really quickly and I am sure he knows what I want him to do by the way he looks at me - but the little b*?@*r wont touch it.   After some hard work I can now get him to wait while I throw it, he then races to it.......then leaves it. Aaahhh

This is where the gentle teasing comes in & a trick taught by Roy Hunter can be very useful & adding another trick taught by Jenni Watson can get a reluctant dog to do retrieve(well it did for my non retrieving BC)

Put the dumbell in a sock you have worn(I'm not joking)& then into a crinkly paper bag, out of the sight of the dog BTW, then in front of the dog rustle the bag saying thing like hm what have we got no your not seeeing no it's all mine etc etc take the dumbell in the sock slightly in & out of the bag letting the dog see only a bit of the sock & keep it out of reach. when the dog is interested gradually take more & more out of the bag until the whole thing is out of the bag, still keeping it away from the dog & teasing it. Then let the dog hold the sock/dumbell with you still holding it saying your competition retrieve command-which should of course be different to your play command.

You can then progress as I posted originally

It is important of course to remove all other toys when teachingretrieve of course

I've used the padded grip wrap that you can get for tennis racquets to put round the dumbell :) Tara was much happier to pick it up after that :)

Daisy

I clicker train my dogs and the first thing I teach is to get them obsessed with the dumbell - just click and treat for sniffing first, then touching, then they might mouth it so I click and treat that. Then as they get more eager they start to pick it up and I build the duration. I combine it with a hand touch initially and work on presents seperately.

Brilliance of this method is they LOVE doing it - my youngest pup started picking it up at 9 weeks - the dumbell was almost as big as her!

I don't teach retrieve until they are finished teething, teaching it earlier can result in mouthing & having just judged a B at a Ch show I was surprised by the number of dogs who mouthed in both scent & retrieve

I combat this by not rewarding if they ever mouth it. By breaking the excercise down each bit can be worked on seperately - a clean and eager pick up, a clean hold for duration and then finally the present. The trainer we train with judges and works up to ticket.

Ellie doesn't really mouth, but she will insist on giving it a quick shake just as she picks it up, just to be sure it's dead?! If Cody loves balls (tennis balls?) you can get tennis ball Kongs shaped like a dumbell, which might be a halfway step from balls to dumbells?

personally I'd keep them seperate as balls they can play with (so you dont mind if they pounce on it, or kill it etc) whereas a dumbell you want a clean pick up.

Do you always throw it? In some dogs their chase drive kicks in, which can make them pounce or 'kill' it. If this is the case try placing the dumbell on the floor and getting them to pick it up then.

As I wrote in my first posting there are different methods o teaching retrieve & I too judge & have worked ticket-lol doesn't make me a good trainer tho' ;)

I have noticed that even with ticket handlers lots of them have dogs that moth & that some judges don't penalise this, I was watching a C judge(who is also a ticket judge)judging scent, several dogs got clears yet all mouthed the cloths alot

Judging of course is subjective & what is markable for some judges is ok & not marked by others :rolleyes: all I do is mark what I see

This is common in dogs of "lazy" handlers ;)

If you want a brilliant retrieving dog that will retrieve ANYTHING (rather than a dog that will only be required to retrieve a dumbell or game say) for Obedience or Working Trials then you first need to build the drive and then use LOTS of different toys/articles so that they are ALL toys and worth the same.

The trouble with always going out with one particular ball is that the dog will ONLY play with that ball and not be interested in it. 

So get rid of your ball, and introduce another toy say a ring, a tugger, different types of ball until he is crazy for them and you can replace one with another with no loss of drive.

This way the dumbell will just become another toy.

To get fast go outs and returns it is useful to play the "two hose" game whereby you remain at the centre and throw a piece of hose or a ball out to the left, as the dog returns you wave another ball and throw it to the right so the dog runs to the ball and back to you with the same degree of enthusiasm, this avoids the issue of dogs picking stuff up and then bogging off with it gets conditioned to return.

Once you have attitude you can then build in the control in all the elements of the retrieve ie sit, mark, go out, pick up, turn around, return, present, give and return to heel.  All of these need to be trained in incremental steps so that the dog fully understands the sequence/chain of a "retrieve".

To prevent problems although I start retrieving at 7 weeks as soon as they start to teethe all retrieving etc is stopped until all the adult teeth are through.

I also train using the clicker system, but it is not necessary to get a "ticket" retrieve.

HTH

Thanks Tohme for your reply.  the annoying thing is I have now got him to retrieve different articles and he does it quite well,  he will sit and wait until I tell him to fetch etc., the really frustrating thing is he will still not touch the dumbell) I have tried taping it as someone suggested but to no avail.  His ball is now only used for recreation and as a reward at the end of his training sessions.  I even practice indoors with all manner of things and he does really well, then I slip the dumbell in and things come to a full stop !!! Little demon

If you do as Tohme suggests and work on the drive, throwing different articles out and bringing him back quickly, slipping the dumbell in after he is keen on all the other articles should not cause a problem.

Forget the wait and presents at the moment, go for the drive and quick response.

I've got the opposite problem at present, my Cavalier girl is so keen to retrieve her dumbell she doesn't want to wait! I'm going to have to do a few where I throw it and fetch it myself, like I do occasionally to stop her anticipating the recall. Don't know how you people manage with BCs, an intelligent Cavalier is too quick for me! :-)

Lucy, rather then throwing it and fetching it yourself, start by putting it infront of her nose in your hand and say wait, if she goes for it, you are in a position to take it away.

Work up to putting it on the floor in front of you and do the same, then some distance away.  Place rather then throw until she is sitting calmly.

If you clicker train, click and treat if she waits, then break off and reset.  Then when you get to throwing it you can click the wait, she will break off for her treat and not go out for the dumbell.

Thanks, I'll do that! I do like the enthusiasm, but she's so clever at learning what happens next. :-)