Hi All

I posted earlier in the week about collecting my new westie puppy yesterday, well i collected him early in the morning and got him home and introduced the 2 boys in the garden, Hamish was very unsure and wasn't keen on Robbie following him around but i knew he would be like this, Robbie just wanted to play and be friendly with him. We went in the house and i kept Robbie in the kitchen and let Hamish have the rest of the house as usual, he was not keen in coming into the kitchen and refused his lunch which was up to him, in the afternoon i put Robbie into his playpen for a sleep and he started to cry and whine which i knew he would as that is a puppy, Hamish went beserk pacing and whining and shot out the garden barking until the puppy stopped then he came in and settled down, robbie must have gone to sleep, after there tea they both went out the garden and were fine and then robbie started to sleep on the floor so we thought it best to put him back in his pen to let him have a little sleep, the breeder said to put him into a pen to get him into our routine as quickly as possible, on doing this we went into the living room for a sit down to watch tv, robbie started to whine and cry really loudly and Hamish started again but this time he was absolutely shaking and whining, we tried to ignore him but he didn't stop and him starting in turn made robbie worse, he then raced out the garden barking non stop as he could hear robbie crying, mum went into the utility room to let robbie out and he had done really bad diarrohea with blood in it and was sitting in it so she cleaned him up and then put him into the kitchen, hamish then came back into the house and as soon as he saw robbie he started again, robbie froze to the spot poor little thing and messed again i think he was just absolutely petrified, hamish kept on going crazy whining and pacing as if he was hyperventilating, we just couldn't do anything with him.
In the end my mum phoned the breeder for advice and spoke to her partner as the poor little mite was getting more and more upset, they said it was stress and that the longer he was there getting upset the more chance of him falling really ill so they advised us to take him back, so that is what we did, within an hour of the pup going hamish had started to calm down, i just never imagined him reacting as badly as this to the new puppy, everyone else seems to be able to introduce a pup to an older dog with a few problems but not as bad as this.
I know Hamish is terrible with noises and on firework night and thunder storms he goes beserk, is looks as though he is going to have a heartattack the way he paces and whines he gets himself so tense, they breeder said to try giving him ACP tablets but the trouble is where we live we get fireworks nearly every saturday night and from october to January they are nearly every night so i cannot drug him every night for 3 months, it is such a shame that he reacts this way because you cannot even touch him or make eye contact with him as this makes him worse.
I am so upset that it didn't work out because i was really looking forward to another westie pup, i thought it would be company for hamish and they would have become friends, but i couldn't risk the poor little pup becoming ill as hamish was really making him frightened.
I guess i just won't be able to introduce another dog into the house but i cannot understand why things went so wrong and why he reacted so badly to robbie crying when he went into his pen, god knows how he would have reacted last night when it was time for bed and they had to sleep in the same room!
Have any other owners had problems like this when trying to bring a pup into the house?

Thanks
Helen

So sorry to hear that it didn't go well. :( Many male dogs are actually scared of puppies because they don't have a lot to do with them, and not all dogs want or need a fulltime canine companion. Because the pup was so distressed as well I think you did the right thing taking him back, disappointing though it must have been. :(

>they breeder said to try giving him ACP tablets

One of the vets I work with refuses to prescribe ACP for things like that because it doesn't lessen the actual fear at all. :( The animal feels just as scared but can't react by whining, pacing, barking etc. The dog's not mentally any calmer. It makes the owner feel better though because the dog's quiet. :(

About 8 years ago i got a new pup chihuahua, Toby our old chihuahua boy was then 15 yrs old, he just sniffed her and then went to his basket and faced the wall and ignored her, she was so keen to be friends with Toby but he didnt want to know.I used to give him cod liver oil and she used to lick his lips, in the end he tollerated her and they lived together happily till sadly he died 6 months later.Im sorry it didnt work out for you.

Helen I too am really sorry to hear of your experience, it must have been so upsetting for you and the dogs!

I haven't got any words of advice I'm afraid, I can agree with what JeanGenie has said though as I know that the older dog we've recently rescued is not fond of our puppies and young dogs.  My Chi bitch is very gentle with him and they are all gradually learning to give him a wide berth, but as he has a heart murmur I am stressed that he's going to become stressed and it will have a negative impact.  Most worrying is that my cat seems to routinely attck him with little provacation, and he really dreads her pacing about and intimidating him.  This is why we're trying to find him a quieter household to move on to.  Our problems here are much less than you've descibed you experienced though.

I hope you all settle back down again soon and get over your disappointment over not being able to introduce another dog.  I also sympathise about the firework situation, I wish they were for organised displays only, they're a dangerous pain in the backside!

I agree with JG on the ACP tablet. I had a couple prescribed last year to bring Maddie home from our hols (she had bloated while we were away and I feared the journey home would stress her out again) However as I broke one up to give to her it broke into 4 peices. she only had a 1/4 of a tablet but within minutes she was drowsy, she stayed 'down' all the way home and when we got home I could see she was still stressed/excited but couldn't do anything about it, it was awful :( 

Haven't got any advice to offer, really sorry it didn't work out though :(

You could try a new natural product called Calmer this is the info from another site-this is for Hamish BTW

Calmer - dietry supplements from Top Spec. They are a well established company who until recently focussed on supplements for horses. Over the past 18 months they have developed a range suited to dogs. Calming supplement for anxious or worried dogs.  I have trialled the calmer myself and have had astonishing results.
Judy Miller
Email: Jamill1@aol.com


It is was kayc got for her dog & is officially on sale from 1/10/6

Just to add I agree, avoid the ACP.

Lindsay
x

Hi

Thanks for your reply, i don't really want to start giving him ACP as i heard this really knocks them out, i just want something to calm him down as i feel he is getting far too stressed with noises, and on firework night you cannot do anything with him at all, he will just whine and pace for hours, even when the fireworks have stopped he still continues to whine, he has now got to the point where as soon as its dark he must associate darkness with fireworks and as soon as he gets out the garden he starts barking and racing around even with no noise at all.
Could you tell me the website where i could get some of this calmer from.

Thanks
Helen

E mail Judy she's got all the info

http://www.topspec.com

I use their equine balancer and equine calmer. I have used the calmer on a very stressed ex-eventer and it is the ONE supplement I would recommend.

Just to add to Moonmaiden...who gave me Judy's e-mail (still can't thank her enough ;), I contacted her..... I (or at least my boy Ollie), was lucky enough to be accepted onto the customer trials, just a couple of weeks ago and the turnaround in my boy is tremendous.... no drowsiness, still has his fantastic personality and high spirit, but it has taken the 'edge' off his unknown fears, and known fears....

That type of spookiness in horses - where they are frightened of their own shadows - has been put down to a lack of magnesium in the grass. Apparently Magnesium counteracts an excess of calcium, which in big doses acts the same as adrenilin. Anyone know if similar happens to dogs?

I'm so sorry it didn't work out. Henry was half-scared and half-disgusted by Ellie when she first arrived, but has mostly got over it now. It sounds like you did the right thing, though it must have been hard.

Hi

I have contacted topspec to get more details about calmer, my westie is terrible around firework night and will whine and pace for hours on end, he is even getting to the stage now where the dark evenings are drawing in that he is whining on/off most of the evening we cannot understand why but are thinking it may be that he associates the dark with fireworks, as when the light evenings are here he doesn't do it, when he goes out the garden before bedtime he is darting around looking up at the sky as if he is scared to death, its such a shame because he is a lovely little dog.

Thanks
Helen

Hi All

Thanks for all your replies, is it unusual that he reacted this badly to a puppy coming into the house? He has always been really bad with fireworks from the 1st year we had him but seems to be getting worse, as soon as he hears 1 now he is off whining and pacing and even when they have stopped he continues to be on guard for the rest of the evening and the slightest noise sets him off again, we usually just ignore him but he keeps trying to make eye contact all the time, most dogs i know of just cower and shake when fireworks start and others don't even react, i don't know of any other dogs that react like hamish does, he sounds like he is going to have a heart attack where he hyperventilates as much.
I am going to try and get some of this calmer for him as anything is worth a try, does anybody know whether it is a powder or tablet?

Thanks
Helen

Hi Helen, the Topspec Calmer for Dogs, is powder with herbs... a little like the packet of mixed herbs we would use for flavourings etc... I just mix the tiniest amount of water with it to make a paste, and feed with a spoon... best given an hour before mealtimes :)

I'm so sorry to hear this Helen, I could see how excited you were of getting little Robbie. Don't give up yet though, could you not get Hamish to meet Robbie again on neutral ground and gradually increase the amount of time they spend together? Just a thought really. I'm sure everything will work out for you.
Best wishes
Emma

Just to let you know, Christine (TopSpec) has just telephoned me to ask how the dog I recommended to try the calmer for was doing.  She informs me that the Calmer is not on sale. She can be telephoned if anyone wants any. The do not charge for P&P.

Does Hamish have any friends? Do any of them come to your house. I would suggest meeting up with another dog on neutral territory & then gradually introducing his friend to your house. It might help, good luck! I think if he could get a friend then he perhaps woudn't worry so much? My terrier doesn't like fire works, but I am sure that she copes better because my other dog doesn't worry at all. How is the puppy, I would expect a bit of loose poo, but the blood in the poo didn't sound to good. Is Robbie ok?

Hi

Hamish has another westie friend Jack who he loves to play with, we usually meet up around the roads with him though as he used to play over the field with him but when Hamish started with his allergies and we found out he had grass/tree allergies the vet said he couldn't go over the fields anymore so we don't see the other dogs we used to see.
He is a friendly dog but its a shame he has so many allergies as he used to love getting over the field playing with the others.
Robbie's mess wasn't just loose poo it was just watery nothing formed at all, and it absolutely stunk and there was blood on the floor and around his bum.

Helen

That sounds more like he has let off his anal glands which is a response to extreme fear...

As i think has been said, some dogs, especially males are really NOT comfy around puppies, they are weird nad unpredictable, bitey, stinky, noisy...

It IS possible to get a dog used to pups, my Rocky was really not happy with Dill at first, (and who would be, dill was horrid! stinky bitey noisy fast moving poop machine), he behaved as if the puppy was electrified and would leap into the air if the pup came anywhere near him.

There was careful management of dog and pup, making time spent with the puppy as rewarding as possible, and gradually Rocky has mellowed out into a dog who isnt KEEN on puppies but will tolerate them and interact with them sensibly.

Em

Hi

Do you think this is what is was, i was worried that Robbie would have become really ill if left, i expect Hamish would have settled and come round to the idea in the long run but i was thinking of the puppies health as my main priority.

Thanks
Helen