Hi all

I am having alot of problems with one of my dogs, and hope that someone on here can give me some advice.
We have a rotty and a dobe. The dobe is mine and I have a very strong bond with him, the rotty is my husbands and is seriously bonded to him- to the extent that I cannot do a thing with the dog.
Now even though he is OHs dog, it is me who does everything for both dogs. But the rotty (Shiner) seems to hate me and acts like he is scared of me- and I can assure you he has no reason to be.
He is fine when OH is around, lively and happy, but won't listen to anything I say. eg: if I tell him to lie down or stop doing something he shouldn't be doing. If OH tells him he will do it straight away. He will also cry if OH goes out of the room, and also at night when he is shut away. 
The real problem is when OH is not around- as soon as he has gone out to work I get ready to go out for the first walk of the day. The dobe gets all excited, but Shiner just runs and hides in the utility room, and if I go near him he just cringes and wees all over the place. I can't get him back into the main part of the house, or out for a walk or even to eat his breakfast. This lasts all day until OH comes home, then Shiner just wants to chase shadows until bedtime (but thats a different problem!:rolleyes:)
If I try and take him out while OH is around, Shiner will just run and hide behind him and refuses to come out.
Nothing has happened out on a walk to scare him, and if he is out he really enjoys himself. But to get him out I have to get him into a corner to get his collar and lead on, then make sure all the doors are open and literally drag him outside- then put him in the car and go back and clean up where he has peed everywhere on the way out :rolleyes: I obviously don't want to drag him anywhere, he's a big dog and it's not nice for either of us. I just get concerned as sometimes he's not had a walk for over a week, so feel I should get him out one way or another. (Should add that if OH goes to take him out he goes mad with excitement, and can't wait to get out the door)
I try calling him in a happy excited voice, offering him really tasty treats, ignoring him, giving the other dog treats in front of him, trying to play with him etc, but nothing. I can't get near him to stroke or make a fuss of him.
It is really upsetting to see Shiner acting like this, and I often end up in tears over this situation. 
Can anyone offer any other suggestions as to what I can try next? This has been going on for months now, and if anything has got worse. Shiner is 14 months, and we've had him since he was 12 weeks.
Thanks & sorry it's a bit long.

Rachael

Hi rach1,

Personally my one and only suggestion is to get a good behaviourist in, I have never heard of this, not from a pup you have raised from 12 weeks, understandable as a rescue dog who has been abused, but not from one that has lived with you from 12 weeks.

How did you train them as pups, did  you use praise and reward?  Has he ever been attacked or hit? Why is he so afraid and mistrusting of you? These are all questions that will need to be asked, and you will need to start from scratch as a wee pup is trained again, to help him.

I don't understand the his and her dogs bit, if you all live together why is one dog just your husbands and one dog yours, yes, dogs will usually bond closer to the owner who walks, and especially feeds them, and perhaps will feel a little lost without their chosen beloved owner, but it makes no sense why the Rotti will only want to walk with your husband and not associate you as his owner too, especially as you appear to be the one at home with the dogs.  All the dogs I have in my home are closer to me as I am their main carer, but it makes no sense why your Rotti, is completely terrified of you and of going out with you, to pee himself, he is absolutely terrified, you need to get to the bottom of this, no-one here can really help to solve this, your dog needs someone to watch and assess the situation, go to your vet and ask for a referral.

Also a vet check itself may be in order.

I will be interested in the outcome to this, and what a behaviourist diagnoses as the cause. :-)

What a horrible situation for you.

Just a thought, but could it be your Dobe he is frightened of, rather then you.  You say the Dobe gets excited when you take them out, maybe it is all a bit much for the Rottie.

Have you tried leaving the Dobe at home and taking the Rottie out on his own.  Could someone have your Dobe for a day so you can see if he could be the problem.  I know it is when your husband isn't there, but perhaps the Dobe behaves differently when he is,  it just might be a subtle difference that you don't notice it.

If the Rottie is doing things like chasing shadows and wetting, it sounds like he is stressed with the situation at home. He is also at that teenage stage where things can go pear shaped.

Its not a nice stuation for you or the dog...i mean, imagine that dogs fear if he pees everywhere :rolleyes:

I would stop taking the dog out at all until you have built up a good relationship with him.

If he enjoyes being taken out by hubby, theres your solution. Get OH to take the dog out before and after work.

Its no life for that poor dog to be THAT petrified, every day of his life.

Hi all

Thanks for your replies.
I had considered a behaviourist, but Shiner is fine if other people are around and just gets excited about them, so didn't think a behaviourist would be able to see the true picture.
He certainly hasn't been mistreated or abused in any way, but has always seemed to be quite a sensitive dog. He also much prefers men to women.
He and the dobe get on great, and I have walked them seperately as much as possible so they get individual attention. They do play together quite roughly, but are both as boistrous (sp?) as each other. He will play with the dobe a bit during the day, but not as much as in the evening. 
It is hard for hubby to take him out, especially in the morning, as he leaves for work at about 4.30am- we get up at 3.45am!  And when he gets home (anytime from 3pm onwards) he is obviously tired and not really feeling like a long walk :rolleyes:
Thinking back, I first noticed a problem just after OH had been away for a weekend. I don't recall having any problems with Shiner over the time OH was away, and can't think of anything bad that happened to him- but could it be relevant do you think?
I always used (and still do) treats and reward when training, and Shiner is intelligent & picks things up very quickly.
It is horrible to see him so scared, yet once OH comes home Shiner is fine and will happily jump all over me, play etc- so he is obviously only worried when it's just me & him.
Just to add- when he does run away from me or pee on the floor, I just say to him something like 'it's ok, don't be silly' and move away from him to give him space. Sometimes I try just sitting on the floor near him and talking to him for a while, and he does seem to relax a little bit.
I will take on board what you have all said, and ask at the vets about a behaviourist. He's a lovely dog, and I am not going to give up on him.
Thanks again

Rachael

Hi Rachael,

Just had a thought which may or may not be connected. Apart from his problem possibly being extremely anxious when away from your husband.  I see that you have taken your Dobe to a show or two, did you also take your Rotti, could he have had a scary experience there, i.e, been left in a cage or just been fearful of the whole situation? And so therefore associates going out with you as going to a show?  Have you tried to show him and he was nervous and upset by the situation?

Just a thought.

Hi carrington

No he has never been shown. My OH brought him along to an open show once, but he seemed to have a great time and loved meeting everyone.
He has actually come over to lie next to me at the moment, and is licking my feet! :-D  A small step, but any progress is good!

Rachael

I would still seek out a behaviourist, but in the mean time, build up your bond with him, feed him nice titbits from your hand, give him lots of cuddles and eye contact, if he will allow. Is he jealous of hubby kissing and cuddling you by the way? I know that guard type dogs dog attach themselves to one person more than the other, but a Rotti as well as a Dobe are family protective too, I just don't understand his reluctance and fear to feel the same way for you too.  You say the two dogs get on well too, but has your Dobe ever growled when your Rotti comes to you? Does he protect you and make the Rotti feel unwelcome? Who would you say is the Alpha male? More and more questions. :-D

I agree with sandrah I think that maybe your dobe is a bit too much with the excitement factor and I too would maybe take the Dobe out of the room and try and interact with your husbands dog.  Has the Dobe in it's excitement landed on the Rottie?  Just asking as one of my SWD's is very spring and has hurt a couple of my other dogs with her bouncing.

Hi

Yeah actually the dobe does often push him out of the way if he comes for a fuss, and the dobe seems like the top dog.
I guess it's just got to be a slow steady process to build up a bond with him, and I will try spending more time with him on his own without the dobe around.
They both seem to get a bit jealous if hubby & I kiss or cuddle, and will get up on the sofa to join in the fun!!!
Many thanks for all your support :-D

Rachael

Maybe when your OH is around and the rottie is 'OK' with you, and you are the one who 'does everything' he see's you as the one that enforces rules (regardless of how you do it, with treats, praise, etc), taking him for walks, etc. He see's your OH as the 'soft touch' of the pack and is more secure with him.
  I would be encouraging my OH to take the dog to training classes and to treat the dog as a dog, not just a plaything, or to be the one that is always nice. I'm sure you are too, I mean that your OH should take on the same things you do with the dogs, so first of all, Shiner sees you both as 'in charge' and that your OH also does the same things with your dobe.
  I know in my house, my brood see my OH as 'the fun one' and don't take as much notice of him, as me. As it's me that trains them, but we BOTH walk them, and take turns in feeding them.
  It's probably more difficult with a second dog in the house to pinpoint why Shiner is as he, but it may be he is unsure of your dobe.
I think it may be worth getting a behavourist in to give you some advice.
I think I would be inclined to do some really basic training with Shiner, one 2 one, in the house, with your dobe out of the way completely (if poss'). Eve just calling him to you and hooking his lead onto his collar. Don't take him out for a walk, just hook him up, knot the lead up (to prevent him treading on it) and let him wander round for a few minutes getting used to the idea he's going out for a walk with you, then take it off and try again the next day. Little things like that to build up confidence in you when you are asking/telling him to do something.
  Anyway, I know there are lots of people on CD that are full of advice, and it may be different to mine, but the above is what I would do as a next step.
  I hope you get this sorted, I know it's awful to see a dog upset.

p.s-sorry it's a long reply

Thanks for that universalady, I will definitely try what you have suggested.
I do think the dogs see my OH as a soft touch, and it is me who does the training, enforces the rules etc while OH does the 'fun stuff'.
I knew I could rely on champdoggers for some sensible advice!

Rachael

Im not sure i would rush into the "eye contact"  part yet as it will probably make him even more anxious

I do think from what you have described, you need a behaviourist. The reason being that the dog's fear appears to be extreme and i think anyone attempting to help could so easily make things worse. Or the cause behind the problem may never be sorted, and the symptoms only dealt with.

My recommendation would be to firstly get a DAP diffuser. This is plugged in where the dog mostly goes, and is not switched off. It usually takes anxiety away although it doesn't work on all dogs. It really helps my dog during anxious times, eg firework season.

Next, I'd suggest contacting your vet as the dog will need a health check over. Some dogs will behave like this because of a medical problem, even though he is OK when your OH is around.

There is one behaviourist in the Surrey area who is recommended by one particular vet (if not others) and I'd suggest she is avoided at all costs.  I will PM you about this.

A good behaviourist will be a member of www.apbc.org.uk or you may possibly find one in www.apdt.co.uk

Good luck

Lindsay
x

do you get scared of the rotti at all? if youre  fearful and stressed, this will accellarate the rottis reaction, you should spend more one on one time with him, just you two, give him treats and talk nice to him.

i would get a behaviourist in, to assess him.

i had a sililar situation, only in my case it was with 2 bitches and i was there only handler and walker.
i first got puepa when she was 6 weeks old and then lupin when she was 6 weeks old 4 weeks later. both bitches grew up together, however puepa and i had a really strong bond. i treated both bitches the same way, socilised them the same, treated them the same.
however as they got older lupin became very submissive, woudl nto come to me when i called he rin the house and woudl go and hide. yet there was puepa all ready to go for the walks.

it was only after getting a behaviourist in that i realised that puepa was actually imtimidating lupin, and bascially that the behaviour got worse if i tried to spend time with lupin so she avoided me otherwise puepa would see her off.

so i took to walking the dogs sepreatly. you say your dobe is bonded to you, and that the rotti is bonded to your oh even though you do all the handling. this is probably becasue your dobr has claimed you as hers, and your oh is the only person your rotti is alowed to be with. its all to do with pecking order. you are a very val;uble member of the pack, your dobe has claimed you as hers,

spending time alone with the rotti  may help., and maybe backin goff from your dobeand lessening the bond. your rotti dosnt feel safe with you, becasue when it is just you, the dobe makes her life miserable.

see it as two siblings fighting for mummies attention. the big sibling bullys the younger sibling if they get attention off mum. so younger sibling avoids gettign attention off mum to stop being bullies. older sibling wins and as a reasult becomes a mummies girl! bullied sibling becomes a daddies girl, even though daddy is hardly ever there.