Hi all

As I don't breed and have no intention to do ever do so, I will refer this question to you all.  Are there ever circumstances which would justify breeding from a bitch significantly older than 8 years of age?

I had a litter from my eldest girl at 8 years 1 week!!  As you know they are a rare breed and a new imported male came into the country a bit later than expected so I wasn't able to mate her the season before as he was still in quarantine! 

The resulting litter was wonderful, if anything the best most equal litter I've had and produced Briedog's Gollie and Jennyb59's father to Archie and also my Anton's father, without this litter we wouldn't have some of the most lovely natured dogs that we have now.  The sire with Lydia produced a litter with the best characters so far in the breed I think, some are a bit toooooo laid back but they are still brilliant dogs :d

Also my breed are quite late developers and Lydia is 13 in 4 weeks time and still acting like a 2 year old, so much so I'm taking her to a game fair tomorrow and will enter her into a couple of the scurry's.

But that was only 1 week over 8 years of age ;)  At what age would it be considered utterly unnaceptabe to have a litter from a bitch?

Think it depends on the breed and the fitness of the bitch, for instance most working Siberian bitches would have no problems having pups at 8 or 9 years of age, providing they had had litters before. Anything older than 9 though is completely wrong for any bitch IMO. And they can't be registered older than 8 anyway, without KC approval.

It depends on the breed - some are longer-lived and fitter into 'old age' than others. My own breed, for example, are still considered in their prime at 7 and 8 years of age, and not considered to be getting old till they reach double figures. It wouldn't be safe to breed from a flabby, overweight, unfit bitch at 6 years, whereas it could be perfectly safe to have a third or fourth litter from a fit, active 10 year old.

What about a fit, active 15 year old?

15 !!!!!!!!!!!!!Never , never , never, that's appalling, has this actually happened?

OH walked the dogs this morning and met a man who had 3 Springer Spaniels (2 adults and a young pup).  OH nd the Springer owner stoppped to chat as our 2 dogs and his adult Springers were playing amiably together but the puppy was very timid and kept its distance.  In the course of conversation, he said that the two adults were brother and sister from the same litter and are 15 years old. OH remarked that they seemed very fit and lively looking for their age, at which point he said that the 15 year old bitch was the mother of the 16 week old pup OH thought he had misheard so asked him to repeat, which he did and went on to describe the sire and his various working accolades.

OH did say that he would never have guessed that the bitch was so old as she looked in really good shape but even so, I thought it was incredibly unfair to put her through pregnancy and whelping at her age :(

Nope. No way. Too old.

that is pretty shocking! 15 is way too old in my opinion.

Yes but who was the father of the pup?  The dam's brother?   Because if he went out to use a stud dog, the stud dog owner is as much to blame as the breeder/owner of the pup.

Are you sure he heard the age right????

Not 15 months?  With her looking young too.

I just can't imagine a 15 year old having pups, it's like a 105 year old woman having babies.

Totally incrediable, what sire owner (especially as you say he was boasting about the sire's record) would ever allow such a mating in the first place.

Sorry it just sounds so ridiculous to me.

If the man was honest and not winding up your husband, I think I would be on to the RSPCA, the poor bitch. :-(

When I worked as a vet nurse, I remember a litter of kittens being brought in to be put to sleep. (This was like 1981, so its one of these memories that really haved stayed with me.) There was nothing wrong at all with the kittens, and they weren't newborn either, but the owner wanted them gone as the mother couldn't cope. The mother was 20 years old.

No the sire of the pups is not the dam's brother (I thought this might be the case too and that the litter might have been accidental but OH says he described the sire and it wasn't his other dog).  I said too that I couldn't believe anyone would allow their stud dog to be used on such an old bitch but I suppose he may not have been honest about her age??

And yes, the bitch is definitley 15 years old, not 15 months. OH said he actually asked the man a couple of times as he couldn't believe he'd heard correctly either. Plus the man was saying how remarkably fit both dogs are for their age :(

We don't know where he lives or anything else about him to report him to the RSPCA. Besides, I don't think there is anything they could do as the dogs are not neglected and what he has done is unethical but not illegal :(

I've seen a 13 year old Spanish Water Dog in Spain with a litter many years ago and she lived a coiuple more years after that, but in my eyes 8 is old enough. 

In my opinion, breeding from a 15 year old bitch, is outrageous and downright cruel! 
I don't doubt it's true, though. Nature is very practical/cruel. Bitches can have litters all their lives, not like us women who stop reproducing at an apropriate age. What happens when an older bitch is in whelp/lactates, is that all she has will go to the pups, leaving her totally drained herself. Of course she will hopefully regrain her strength when the pups leave, but it will still have taken it's toll, having a litter. Her life will be shortened, for sure.
If a bitch has had only one or two small litters, or is of a breed that ages slowly, breeding from a bitch over 8 years of age might be OK. Otherwise I'd say my answer to the original question is "no". No reasons other than selfish ones, to breed from a bitch that's over 8 years old.
Karen

Wow, poor bitch, even if she is doing well for her age!!!