Hello Claire,

I would just like to equally add that if you ever so "NO" and your dog ignores you, then you have not made yourself perfectly clear to that dog! You must say "No" not just as a 'word', but with your WHOLE BEING! Your voice, tone, body language and expression MUST convey to your dog "Stop what you are doing, buster IMMEDIATELY"!!

If it helps, try to imagine that you MUST stop the dog, because his life depends on it! - In my case, my dogs would know their lives WOULD depend on it ;)

Also, your dog should NOT be barking AT you. He is answering you back and technically swearing, and telling you where to go!! Put him straight Claire! He will have far more respect for you.

Regards,
Denise.

Hi Claire,

I can lend you my 'nanny's voice' if you want, it worked first time, everytime on the kids I used to look after. What happened to Mia?????

See you at SKC?

Christine

Yes Christine I'll be at SKC :-)

>>In my case, my dogs would know their lives WOULD depend on it

lol ... Mine too Denise ;-)

Hi Leigh,

Glad to hear it :)

It is true however, that a handler who gives a command in the 'hope' that the dog will obey, will have a dog that senses and 'smells' that helplessness, and will therefore take advantage!

Denise.

Claire, I have recently started GSP training classes with my dog, I was told exactly the same as Leigh & Denise are telling you, at the first class although we were doing things that I knew he could, he refused to do them for me but worked perfectly for the trainer. A month later at the next class, he did almost everything I asked of him because I have been a lot firmer & he now knows if I tell him to do something I MEAN IT. It has been very hard for me to do it but I'm glad I did cos it worked. Ingrid

Thank you everyone :-) I have taken on board everyone's comments and have made my other half read all the postings so he understands too where we are possibly going wrong.

Went home last night and thought right start as I mean to go on. When telling him not to do something I kept a low voice sometimes growly, using eye contact, standing with my hands on my hips when telling him "no" (this was something I remembered a dog trainer telling me to do). When he was trying to get to my bitch I would tell him "no" and push him out the way gently but continually if he didn't stop the first time. Early days obviously but there is a difference happening. He tried 3 times to mount the cushion and on the 3rd occasion he stopped just before he grabbed it simply by me saying "no" in a growly voice, normally he would look me in the eye at this point but he didn't he looked sort of at my neck level. Once I've given him a command I was leaving him for a minute or two and when he was nice and quiet or lying down or just sitting I would praise him very quietly or ask him to do sit or down and praise him. Is this right?

I know deep down that he has been trying it on, you can tell by the cheeky bloody look on his face but he can also be nervous sometimes of dogs and people so I wasn't wanting to make him worse by being too hard on him. Maybe that's where I've gone wrong ?

I have to say that when he was nervous in the ring speaking to him in a soft, quiet, kind voice seemed to relax him more than when I was saying a firm "stand" and "stay". This is why I've been confused because it seems like sometimes I am using different methods of training and I'm wondering if I should be sticking to one method ?

I also feel a little cruel when speaking to him in a stern manner and I have been told more than once by different people that I'm too soft and yet I've also thought I was hard sometimes. You see with my bitch it was different but then I guess she was on her own too. Do I sound pathetic.....lol I know weimars can push their luck particularly males at this age.

I'll keep you all informed and I'm very grateful for all your advice and any more that might come my way :-)

" you can tell by the cheeky bloody look on his face" Oh Claire I know that look so well, devils aren't they.
I found it very hard to change my ways, I've been used to GSDs and they are one of the easiest dogs to train, My present GSD cannot be shouted at (not that he often needs it) he will just cower and stay there, he works best to calm softly softly approach so this new way wasn't easy but I am learning fast.
I was told on Sunday that I have a stubborn willful dog and I will need lots of patience to train him, but he has all the right instincts so it will be worth it in the end. Good Luck Ingrid

HI Ingrid

I hope you dont mind me saying, but when i read posts such as yours i am filled with hope :)

WE have a "crossover" trainer in our Working Trials group; she came from Aussie and the attitude out there to dogs is practical to saythe least. She has had experience of lots of dogs out there, and also trained a Goldie to do Search and Rescue - but by her own admission was very rough with him at times, by that I mean she would smack, shake, shout, etc.

I think she was hard on him because he did, according toher, cower away from her at times if she moved quickly/unexpectedly. (By the way I'm not suggesting for one minute that YOU do this!!! Or anyone on this board....She really did veer towards the very hard side of training)

Anyway, our WT's group is all totally motivational,clicker based etc, the same as our agility group :) Kathy now has a teenage Flatcoat and a Goldie, and is really excited by the training she has seen and learnt. She has told me she has realised how diffixult my Terv must have been, mainly because BAnya is a very hot dog where work is concerned and has little patience and gets frustrated after a time :D so Kathy tends to see the very hard wired little BSD. (I suspect when you saw her at the Game Fair she was being a fairly good little dog ;).

Anyway to cut a long story short, she is now dedicated to learning all about motivational training, clicker stuff etc. There have been times she has come very close to losing her tmper - byher own admission she has a very quick temper anyway - but is controlling herself and also to her surprise really enjoyingher self and the training is reaping results for her she has never known before.

The other day we had a problem witha special needs child punching a Cocker...distressing, and Kathy was really upset and kept asking us "Was i like that?" and wondering if she was a good enough home for her Flatcoat and Goldie - daft woman!

She is doing so well, as many will know Flatcoats in particular are very "bouncy" and can be frustrating, but Jasper is doing really well. We are all really proud of her.

Anyway sorry to waffle a bit, and harp on about someone else's story; I was just set thinking by your post :)

Lots of luck in your training, your GSD sounds very sweet :)

Best wishes
Lindsay

Ingrid, I am so pleased that you are enjoying training Monty :-) The breed is like a piece of elastic, but as long as he knows that you are the boss and that you will not tolerate any nonsense from him, you will be fine. I agree, GSP's are a different ball game to GSD's, but both are intelligent dogs and need to know what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't. We will swop notes in september ;-)

Lindsay, no I don't mind at all, I don't often smack or shout when training Monty but do find I have to use a loud firm voice, he's an absolute sod otherwise and will ignore me, although this is improving every time we go out in the fields. Zen is a lovely boy, a big softee with people, not always so friendly with other dogs till he knows them & I am really annoyed that I didn't come as say hello Banya is such a pretty dog.
Leigh you sure they aren't on springs as well as the elastic, look forward to seeing you, & I've almost cured the parting with the dummy thing. Ingrid