Hi List

I'm after some information.  I'm using  Drontal Plus for my Dogs wormers at the moment.  Is there a better product on the market.

Many thanks

Milbemax is a brilliant new product, it is a very, very, tiny tablet that gives your dog 3 months full protection, costs approx £5 from your vet, and you can forget about worming for 3 months. No mess, no worries.

May be worth reading this thread  http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=748936 :)

Daisy

Not for un DNA tested Collies/Aussies though

i'd second carrington on milbemax-i use it on my two. Costs me about £14 (need two tablets each) every 3 mths.

**I'm using  Drontal Plus for my Dogs wormers at the moment.  Is there a better product on the market.**

Would depend what you`re worming for and the only way to know that is to test & determine the best form of treatment for particular worms :)

The only wormers worth having are vet supplied Milbemax, Drontal or Panacur, the shop bought and Internet wormers aren't worth looking at as they only kill some worms, the 3 products above are the only ones that kill everything.

thanks for you info, I've just called the vets and they have plenty of milbemax in stock.  Great price too, 2 tablets for £7.40

Thanks for all your help

Lucky you! Your vet is much cheaper than mine. :-(

Thats the standard price, I'll get discount on that too :-)

Im worried now! I've used Milbemax for my Bearded Collie now the last two times he was wormed and he is due to be wormed again on Saturday.  He was fine after taking it, but could he have a reaction even if he hasn't before?

Do you really think your vet would prescribe you something dangerous to your dog? He knows what your breed is safe to take, from the Collie family Rough Collies are the main dogs who perhaps would have probs, Beardies don't appear to have any bad affects at all and I have not personally seen anything at all concerning Beardies :-)

If worried talk to your vet when going for your next tablet, he will put your mind at rest.

Thanks for your reply Carrington, I will double check with the vet (I always worry too much!!)

>Do you really think your vet would prescribe you something dangerous to your dog?

What faith, Carrington. My vet has certainly prescribed my Roughs Ivermectin based drugs.

M.

The genetic Multidrug Sensitivity reaction is found in all the Collies & Aussies My vet is aware & would not perscribe this wormer for any collie or collie type dog

Lily Mc, lets be honest here none of us are pharmasists, chemists, or vets, we read and learn certain facts, exactly how much of something is in a tablet, powder, medicine, we don't really know if it is enough to affect a dog, if your vet has supplied your collie with something containing Invermectin, (was it milbemax by the way? I doubt it was this wormer or you would have said so) I am sure it will have been of a safe proportion, which is why your dog is fine.

I don't like scare mongering, a vet is the only trained person who knows what our dogs can and can not take, they have updated information all the time on new drugs, what we think we know can change from one year to the next, medicines progress just like everything else and I am sure that a vet would not offer milbemax (that's what we are talking about) to a dog which he knew should not have it, or they would have law suits coming out of their ears.

By all means question if not sure, but a vet does know and we don't.

To be precise, it was Immodium, which causes issues with the same MDR1 gene mutation that causes reaction to Ivermectin, and the vet should not have told me to give it to her. My dog died the next day. I hope it was nothing to do with that, but if I'm honest with myself I try not to look into it too closely, now that I've been made aware that Immodium would be on the danger list. She was my first dog, she was 16 and she had a great life, fit as a fiddle until two days before.

I don't like scaremongering either but to quote the facts, "Ivermectin causes neurologic toxicity in some, but not all Collies, at doses that are 1/200th of the dose required to cause toxicity in other dogs." Personally, I wouldn't want to take the chance now I have the information. There are other wormers available (and other drugs in Ivermectin categories) which do not have this issue for Collies - why not just make sure that people have the information and choose another? It's not a big deal.

M.

I'm not getting at you Lily Mc, but this is the exact scenario that causes panic, look at what you just wrote.

My dog died the next day. I hope it was nothing to do with that, I'm very sorry by the way, that must have been terrible.

But you say later on,

she was 16 and she had a great life, fit as a fiddle until two days before.


so that means she was ill two days previous which is why you took her to the vet and then unfortunately she died.  Not died because of what your vet gave her, but because she was ill.

This is what happens a lot, medicines get blamed for deaths when they may have had absolutely nothing to do with it. People read that they have something in them that may be harmful and the complete facts are not known.

This is why I trust in a vet to really know the facts. I'm not saying that dogs can not have lethel affects to some drugs, same as us not everything agrees with us, but I don't like us deciding when we can't possibly know. :-)

My fit as a fiddle dog had gone to the vet's for an upset stomach. As I say, I choose not to even look into blaming it for her death, for my own peace of mind. I merely recounted the story because you said that a vet wouldn't prescribe a medicine which might cause problems. I merely stated that she died the next day because you said in your post "I am sure it will have been of a safe proportion, which is why your dog is fine" to illustrate that no, she wasn't fine.

This is a wide enough known phenomenon for a lot of research to be done and a DNA marker to have been found, not an occasional occurence. As Val's post below shows, much heartache has been caused to many.

I will continue, not to scaremonger, but to point out to owners of affected breeds that there is an issue and there are (easy) more sensible choices to be made.

M.

Well I'll be sticking to Drontal for my Aussie. Why change anyway, I've never had a problem giving it to my two :)

Thanks for sharing your experiences :)

Daisy

Absolutely, Daisy - no scaremongering required, but if there's a question over one thing for your breed, seems only sensible to take an other option. :D

M.

a vet is the only trained person who knows what our dogs can and can not take

It was a Vet who prescribed Ivomectin to a Collie breeder that very nearly wiped out her whole kennel!  She lost many dogs. :(  The packet insert clearly stated that it should not be given to Collie breeds.  It is because of that breeder's openness that we now all know there is a problem with the drug and would now question any drug that Vets try to give us.  I also include this information in my puppy booklets so that new owners of the breed are also aware.

Shame on the vet!!! He should have known his products no excuse for that. Glad that you highlight the fact in your puppy packs too, but I would hope that vets today would know these facts.

Unfortunately, with both Doctors and Vets, once they have their qualification, there is no compulsion for them to stay up to date with current information,  which is why we need to take responsibility to look after ourselves and our dogs. :)

I don't know about vets but doctors, certainly, have a portion of their salary dependant on a number of study days a year, no compulsion but a bit of an incentive ;).  I would not imagine a graduate of any science subject would expect to never look at new data again but of course there is so much of it it is wise for people aware of any more obscure issues to bring it to their attention for added safety.

>I also include this information in my puppy booklets so that new owners of the breed are also aware.

Ditto

M.

It was also a vet who gave my 3 year old GR a booster which killed him!  It's best we keep up to date with drugs prescribed to our dogs and ourselves, and don't just take them because they are offered, find out about them first - something I learned too late!

Was it the first booster your GR had ever had, Maria?

And I'm not getting at you, Carrington. :D Just another point ...

>the shop bought and Internet wormers aren't worth looking at

Agree entirely re. shop bought wormers, but don't understand the reference to internet bought? The Drontal I buy online is identical to the vet prescribed one, at approx. half the price. Milbemax - for those it will suit ;) - is available online at £3.38 a tablet and wormers are normally delivered by pharmacies postage free.

M.

You do have to buy from a reputable firm though.  There have been several reports of counterfeit drugs sold on the internet varying between useless and outright dangerous.