Beware, a lengthy one....

Many of you know Ollie... who I fondly nicknamed 'The Spawn of Satan'... with good reason.... so far I have managed (I use the term loosely). His hyperactivity has been driving me to the point of threatening with, his life, his private parts, a postal packet to the nearest pound ;)  all in jest of course.. but at 11months old and a powerful 35kg hormonal, headstrong, manic, yes manic dog, I have lost the will.... All was fine (not quite, but I coped) until about a month ago when he found his voice... liked it so much he hasnt stopped... and I mean hasnt stopped... I completely ignore him, But yesterday and all last night, drove me to distraction... bar taking him out for piddles poos and feeding him...total barking hours... 19....uep 19 hours out of 24.... and to cap it all, he has now become possesive aggresive... (saw this one coming, but hyperactivity lends itself to deaf ears on the training front), AND he is now also suffering from separation anxiety... didnt see that one coming.... Without a word of a joke, he is heard barking just under a mile away... I had to go out this morning and stopped at my neighbour who lives exactly a mile away... and could hear him in the distance....

Now, to be honest, I can actually chill out from this and relegate it into the background, but, his bark becomes a pathetic, screech, and he really does have a petted lip, he is so stressed, its unbearable.... and before you ask, yes, I have 3 bitches in season... which is not the reason for his behaviour, but has exacerbated it...

Over the past 8 months or so, I have tried many remedies... flower remedies, serene-um etc... none of which even took the edge off...

I have tried many different ways, changing rooms, sleeping places, times, rotas etc.. giving each a decent enough timespan to see if they would work or not....

they havent... I now admit defeat... lol, I think that bothers me more ;) (not being defeated, just admitting it ):D :P

Seriously, I would appreciate ANY input... all else has failed...

Xanthe, is much the same... but hasnt found her voice yet... when she does, the valium and prozac are at the ready (for me not the dog :) )

I have had Vinnie on Clomicalm .....with good results - although others haven't found it so good.   It might be worth a try, to see if it will break the habit of barking.

Vinnie now lets the others bark for her .......after all what's the point of having a dog and barking yourself :)

Seriously though - it might be worth checking out.

Margot

Havent tried that Margot, definately worth checking out, many thanks...

Oh dear :rolleyes: Norty Boy :)

I was going to suggest SM as that worked wonders on Min when I had to cut her claws. (Took two strong men , Mike and the vet to try and hold her down without success )

I think the three girlies being in season may have a lot to do with it. Can he go on holiday for a week or so as maybe a change of scenery and not to have the scent of three girlies may solve it :)

Lucy
xx

Hmm you seem to have forgotten your little trip north and getting up at 5am for She Devil and Spawn of Satan lol.... well multiply that by a) juvenille deliquincy (now full blown Kevin mode) :P b) hormones gone haywire and c) still got another two girls to come into season over the next couple of months, and then back to the start again... I already have one boy on holiday, but really need to get house in order when Ollie is concerned... and deal with it.... If I did send him on hols... it would be for 8months out of the year lol....and I have Wallace coming up behind him at nearly 8months old... but Wallace has excelled in his training, so much easier to cope with than Ollie, who seems to have had bypass surgery in the grey matter dept :P

On the other hand he is easy to deal with outside the house, walks to heal on and off lead... recall is pretty good, and retrieves a dream... but as soon as we are back home.. he doesnt just switch off... he flips into manic mode...

It isnt just the girls season.. he has been hyper since he was able to stand on all fours...... and as I said, I can deal with him... I can switch off... I dont have neighbours so dont worry about leaving him to bark, and it doesnt seem to be bothering the rest of the rabble, they are simply ignoring him.. its just that he gets sooo distressed, it really upsets me having to let him work through it.... I just thought there might be an easier way for him....

I relegated him to the kitchen tonight for a couple of hours... just a baby gate on there as you know... and he pee'd 3 times with the stress of not being at my feet, but if I let him in the same room as me... the others have to be removed as he wont allow them to come to me.... his poor brain is all screwed up at the moment... and I really feel quite hopeless in helping him work through it....

he is so exahusted, I have just put him through to the bottom room and not a peep... bless him

No suggestions, but sending lots of sympathy!!

Have you thought of the protein levels he is having?
Can I ask what is SM?

Protein level is at the minimum I can possibly maintain, (for him) around 18/20%... he is fed a raw diet... no treats, no preservatives, additives or any E. no's, although on the very rare occasion that he does get these...(At shows I use cheese, liver and sausage) his behaviour is no different... At the moment he is only eating one meal out of every 4 or so... but this is the girls season that is upsetting this...and he is a big well muscled boy, so can stand a little weight loss. Was rather hoping that lack of food intake would increase lethargy at little :D

Hmm you seem to have forgotten your little trip north and getting up at 5am for She Devil and Spawn of Satan lol.... well multiply that by a) juvenille deliquincy (now full blown Kevin mode)

Errrr no how could I forget it :D :D

I hope you sort his little head out soon poor lad !

Lucy
xx

My God, it sounds awful. The only advice I can offer is to have him stuffed and put on wheels so that you can still take him out for walks!!!!

That one solution :D :D

I don't know if this will help my ckcs is 18mnths old and we are his 4th home mainly I think because of his barking he was awflul when we first got him but we have found a lucozade bottle helps we have 2 one with marbles in and one without just showing him the empty one shuts him up most of the time we also tried him with a bark collar but he changed the tone of his bark and that stopped it being set off. We live in a semi detached but our neighbour is wonderful about the noise. Milo is a little clingy he has climbed onto my knee while i type!

I know this works with many dogs... but Ollie, definately not... it simply gives him more reason to focus on me... and this is what I am trying to dissuade at the moment... Shaking a bottle with pebbles, or food (as I have already tried) only makes him jump up to play the game... Its his whole hyperactivity that I need to contain... the barking is simply a manifestation of this.  Squirting water at him is such great fun, that he will bark to get it :rolleyes: I have gone through all the usual and unusual routes with him and I am stumped....

He is either going to end up with a frontal lobotomy or me with a bottle in front of me :D :P

I also have 8 other dogs who are so laid back they fall over..except Xanthe his litter sister, but at least she doesnt bark ;)...yet

>He is either going to end up with a frontal lobotomy or me with a bottle in front of me  <

LOL @ kayc

Sounds like Ollie needs a treadmill. You could attach it to a generator and make your own electricity. :-D

:D  made a list, and that one is rather near the top :D

Oh dear you are in a pickle.  What about feeding him outside but scattering and hiding food so he uses some energy up looking for food it may keep him quiet. Good luck not sure i was any help but could recomend a bottle for you to hit!:rolleyes:

Sadly he isnt a 'foodie' at the moment... never really has been... but only eating every 2nd day at the moment.   

ps, scattering a chicken leg ain't easy :D :D 

There is a new product coming on the market from TopSpec for calming.  I approached the girls that sell TopSpec at Birmingham and they had some samples. (I wanted it for a friend who is having problems with their dog).  One of the women has a dog that is a barker and also quite hyper.  She had just walked in with him and he seemed very much calmer than I have seen him before. TopSpec is made from natural products.  It may be worth a try.

excellent, have just googled and found the horse 'stuff' :)  going to give them a ring now

:( still not on the market yet... but have left my tel no.. and Christine will get back to me.... product should hopefully be on the market in a few weeks, but keep fingers crossed that I can maybe get some samples until then

Judy Miller
Email: Jamill1@aol.com
Telephone: 01242 255330

try this lady for Top Spec

MM, thank you so much for that tel no... have just come off the phone after 42mins :D just talking to her has made me feel so much better and ready to cope again..... light is burning brightly at the end of the long tunnel.... :) 

thank you :)

Goodness I could feel the frustration in you post Kay!

If someone with your experience is finding it difficult, how are the other homes coping?  And where on earth did this 'difficult to live with temperament' come from??  What were the parents/grandparents like?

Glad that you've found the light! :D

Val, no idea where this came from, although suspect..partially my own fault... rather mollycoddled the little lad... well, he is just so gorgeous ;) All other pups in litter are fine,  a couple that have come back to visit were a little spoiled and were every bit as energetic, but were biddable and dare I say 'normal'  :) ... even Xanthe, his litter sister whom I also kept, is nowhere near manic as Ollie... yes she lives life at 'warp factor 8' :P but she is happy to go do her own thing... lie down, sunbathe, and generally just live life with the others around her....she will look up to see what or where I am going, but satisfied that it doesnt concern her, will close eyes and drift off again... as do all the others... unless of course the fridge door is heard ;) then its every man/beast/dog for himself :P

Ollie on the other hand... I would liken to a highly intelligent being, without the common sense, his barking is not even a bark... imagine screeching 'eek eek eek' chimpazee style... very stressful, and his eyes are quite haunting, as though he knows something is wrong, and is pleading with me to help...I have never had a 'proper' cuddle from him... If I get down on the floor he goes manic, and is really quite dangerous... a head butt to my chin, more than hurts a little... he is exhuberant in the extreme... pure adrenalin... Even my Megan and Connie (both highly charged working ESS) would have been exhausted simply being in the same room...

Now up until a couple of months ago, he was a happy chappy, but something has changed, and his stress levels have gone through the roof.... and sadly it has been so gradual that I missed the trigger and can't trace it back...

I took leave of the 5min rule this morning and road walked him for about 6 miles... gently and slowly, just for some 'us time'... walking him is a pleasure... he came home and flaked out, for all of 20mins... realised I was not in the room when he woke up and howled like a flippin' banshee then started on the monkey shreiking, and the rest is history:rolleyes:

Hi Kay,

sounds like an average Belgian to me :D  OK, maybe not much peace of mind when with a Lab :rolleyes:

Have you had his thyroid checked - it may be running on warp speed over active ......

Now up until a couple of months ago, he was a happy chappy, but something has changed, and his stress levels have gone through the roof.... and sadly it has been so gradual that I missed the trigger and can't trace it back...

Oh not us do you think We didn't freak the poor lad out that much

It was Xanthe that was the wild card when we came although Ollie was a close second :D

Is it worth getting some allergy tests done maybe as I know it is along shot but could he have some from of food intolerance ? Just been racking my brains to think of things :)

Lucy
xx

lol Lucy, Xanthe hasnt changed much in her attitude to life, but she has matured a little and really is quite laid back...has her mad moments, but are becoming less frequent, and a little more sedate :)

Ollie on the other hand has gone completely overboard... I am sure he hears little voices inside his head....

Dont think it was you Lucy :D  quite a lot has been going on here, but nothing really out of the ordinary, and all the others have taken everything in their stride... there has been a trigger somewhere, but its finding that point where he changed....

I know that when he 1st started the barking/screeching I tended to him... it was totally out of the ordinary... mistake no. 1 :rolleyes: but I cant remember when exactly or why he started..he just did, and forgot to stop

Oh Kay - I'm glad that he's yours and not mine! :rolleyes:
That'll teach you not to give gorgeous fellas an extra cuddle!

What is the temperament of his parents, or in my experience more importantly, the temperament of his grandparents like?  In my breed, if it isn't environmental, then temperament seems to skip a generation or two and come out with vengence! :(

Val, parents, g/parents etc all superb temperament, Sire although at limited Stud, has produced some fab dogs with temperaments to match and for me this was top priority. And although I had a line up of 3 studs, I spoke to my girls breeder and we made the final choice together...

>Oh Kay - I'm glad that he's yours and not mine

Thanks for the comforting words Val :D :D

lol, I keep telling him, If I hadnt bred him myself, he would have gone straight back to the breeder :P

The lines of the stud are very solid old lines, and I have brought these into my line through a couple of previous litters.... my Ellie, who had a temperament and nature to die for, and my little Phoebe who is an angel...although I didnt breed Pheebs, she is off same stock :)

Teri... erm.. no... I havent tested for Thyroid problems... none of the more usual signs... no hair loss or weight movement etc.. but... now that you mention it.... thanks, will get the blood work done :) 

:D you are welcome

Cindyloos idea sounds a very good one, scattering his food and letting him hunt for it. I would do it from a helicopter over the North Yorkshire Moors.

:D :D :P

Alison, Christine has just phoned me back, and is posting some off to me tonight.... sorry for name dropping but she did ask who put me in touch with her... so you got the blame :)

Hi Kayc
Our 5 month old GR is a very vocal dog and the only thing that has helped stopp him (not altoghether but almost) is a Dog Off high pitched alarm - silent to us though!!  It took about a couple of days before he started to realise, so make take longer with yours as he is older.  We got it from Pets at Home!

Someone also recommended we use a water pistol,  but that isn't always convenient in the house.
Good Luck
Maria

Thanks maria... he barks to get more water, so that is out... .and I have too many other dogs to consider going down the alarm route... it must affect them too... however, its not simply the barking that is the problem...when he isnt barking, its the hyper/manic behaviour... (sigh) if it were only the barking I would be delighted ;)

Now, another thing to throw into the pot... can a dog become aggoraphobic???  reason for asking... When Ollie is in kitchen or large crate, he has room to pace and more often that not, pee's ... but I have just put him in the puppy crate in the livingroom to allow the other girls and Wallace to come through in peace... and he has settled... now, this crate is far too small for him.. he cant stand up full height, and has difficulty in turning around... but he has managed to get himself comfy and has gone to sleep. It doesnt make sense!!!!

I'm thinking smaller space, even if a tight squeeze, makes him feel more secure ;)  My golden oldie (RIP) used to worry about all sorts in her world and often found comfort in the most unappealing and uncomfortable surroundings.

When you think about the body wraps etc for pets used nowadays in conjunction with TTouch - just might be something in that :)

Just reading your last post and seeing that he likes his small spaces as they feel more comfortable to him. COuld you try a body wrap? It helps make them more secure in themselves. He seems like a very frightened little fella at the moment. Poor wee thing. Sending calming thoughts to him.
My dog has really bad noise phobia and the body wrap helps to a huge degree.

Hope the samples of the calming stuff gets to you soon. Sounds like you really need it (for you and the dog)

All the best wishes
Anna

Hi Kay, no worries I have very broad shoulders!!!  Hope it works for you, Christine is the one with the dog that was so much more quiet than I had seen him before. The other dog that I got the calmer for has started eating interior doors etc when they leave him and he is now 10 years old. He has been on medication from the Vet and has had an animal behaviourist to see him so I certainly will be interested to see if it works for him.

Kay,

Your boy sounds exactly like my daughter and son if they eat or drink milk/cheese.  for them it's the milk proteins that are the real problem ;)  Daughter being older has learned to control it (and even use the reaction for extra energy ) but Young-un is not allowed any milk or cheese AT ALL !   To give you some idea of the scale of the reaction, there's 14 years between them it took that long to recover from her when she was young and we didn't know what was wrong :(  with the second we knew as soon as he reacted ;)  So Q is - is he getting any milk/cheese? (or some other protein he's reacting to ;) ) It took 6 weeks for Daughter to show marked change once it was eliminated fom her diet ;) Once she had calmed down (for which read totally changed for the better ;) )  one cheese sandwich was enough to prove the reaction ;)

Don't know if the info will help you but having lived thru the human version, I really feel for you and him :(

 

Hi Dill....No... never gets milk... but yes to the cheese, but only as bait at shows. and with having the pups, have not been showing for nearly three months... so no cheese... his protein intake on a daily basis is around 18%, made up of meat.. no dairy products at all... although on a rare occassion he gets to lick out the odd yogurt pot.....

When I went down to my daughters for a few days in April I took Ollie with me, and put them onto a processed feed... nothing changed... and when we came home, went back to raw, and again. didn't notice any significant changes....but obviously not enough time lapsed between the changes... although... I did make a cock up in the feeding regime and he ended up with puppy food and for a couple of days, was off the scale.....wired to the moon... (by the time I realised I was a bowl missing, and went to retreive it, it has been devoured, so just gave him the bowl I had left)... could be something in what you have said.... BUT, if this were the case, then the few days of processed food would have kicked in quite noticably.. perhaps??  getting tired now.... its been a nightmare couple of days, lack of sleep is really getting to me..sorry :(

Dog, you must be feeling worn out :(  I know when I had this with my daughter (till she was 4 1/2 ) I felt awful as I was exhausted and my confidence took a real bashing, especially with most people, including doctors, saying it was because I was 'winding her up' :rolleyes: I was really strung out by the time we found the cause :(

Just had a thought, if all else comes back negative it might be worth eliminating brain problem/s (physical) via a scan, they can cause all sorts of wierd symptoms (heaven forbid, but sadly it can happen)  I know it's clutching at straws, but sometimes straws are all we have left :rolleyes:

:) thanks Dill.. just waiting for the postman now lol... my miracle cure is on its way... well, I can live in hope cant I ;)  still... if this calming stuff even tones him down a little, just enough to communicate, it will be worth it....

Somehow, after talking onthe phone to complete strangers toda,. and finding that we are all in the same boat... amazingly all symptoms are quite precise, even down to the chimp like screeching... it does actually help to know that Ollie is not the only one suffering.... and that improvements have been remarkable in the other dogs... keeping fingers crossed now :)

But will still have the blood work done just to rule out any health issues... and will take it from there...

".. just waiting for the postman now lol... my miracle cure is on its way... well, I can live in hope cant I   still... if this calming stuff even tones him down a little, just enough to communicate, it will be worth it.... "

Any idea what the ingredients of it are ? Just wondering, as ours is controllable with most things now except the monthly clipping/grooming - last couple of times she's been a terror, and I'd like to find something to help calm her at such times!
I have a couple of calming remedies, but they haven't made much difference in the past.

Hi Trisha, no, I dont know the full ingredients... for obvious reasons, product not actually on the market yet ;)  although a couple of the ingredients that I do know of are used in human Anti-depressants, and Bi-polar medications... but have been assured that all are natural...

Poor you on the grooming side of things :(  thankfully not something I have to worry too much about... a quick brush down is all my breed needs... no need to clip his nails, his constant pacing keeps them pretty short :)

have been informed that product will be on the market 3rd week in September... price not yet known, but expected to be around £20 for 700gms.... will keep you posted, as soon as I know anything :)

Another one that maybe worth trying is Phytopet.  I haven't used them personally, but I was recommended them.

Thanks Kay - I look forward to hearing how things go with it.
She used to be really hyper - like a red mist, and nothing could stop her. As she got bigger, she and us were in more danger of injury from this hurtling crocodile! It seemed that once the remedy was taking effect, she'd fight it and actually got worse for a time before she finally gave in and settled, so we stopped using it and began time out instead, which is effective thank goodness. She had a rough time teething too: it was during the very hot spells - always had a couple of bad days when a tooth was loose.
It was during that time in July that the groomer came and for the first time, he couldn't clip her head or face at all, and only minimal everywhere else. Later that day, we saw that she had all four canines doubled up - new one alongside the loose old one, and those sticking out at the sides! Ouch!
She got the rest of her new teeth through the next month, but had found out that she could act up, and did so last month when they came. We've had the same groomer for 16 years now, and the other two we had were always very good for him and his assistant, and so was she the first three times they came. They were so patient with her, and eventually managed, but it was a tussle - thankfully her nails didn't need clipping last time! 
After not using any for some time now, we're going to try one of the two remedies that we have when he's due later this month. The ones we have are Aviform Natural Calm and the Phytopet Calm - both have similar but slightly different formulations, the Phytopet a more complex list of ingredients. We also have a DAP diffuser, and although it doesn't eradicate the problems we've had, when it runs out (twice) she gets too full of herself - both times I only checked it when her behaviour suddenly got more boisterous, so it must have some effect.

It's a pity we have this grooming issue, as she's much better now, and the time outs are getting less. We do know she's upset by fireworks too after the world cup, so I'll certainly be interested to hear of your experience with this new one.

In any case, I hope you get good results with it! ...fingers crossed for you! :)

Well, it arrived this morning, smells lovely... a little like a pot of mixed herbs... so fingers crossed, will see how he gets on  over the next few days....  Had a little setback today... growling at nothing, and scare of his own shadow, completely spooked...

I took him to a show on Saturday, nearly decided against it... and he flipped, but we managed a reserve in the post grad class... out of 14 entries... and he is still just 11 months... so pleased with that...

Another little peice of news... Ollie is going to be the model for the new product :D :D  still not sure whether this is a good or bad thing.... lol... had a call from Christine tonight, and they are going to use Ollie's Photograph on the flyers for the product.... fame at last lol.... not quite how I had hoped it to happen :P 

will keep you posted :)

You'll be "the talk of the steamie" :D 

Way to go Ollie in the PG class - see, all hope is not yet lost ;)

Well done on the show placing :)

Fingers crossed that the stuff works and both of you can get back to enjoying life and each other :)

thanks dill & Teri... lol 'talk of the steamie' years since I heard that ... used to love playing in the steamie with my cousins, when my Aunt took us every Monday morning :D

Well, its only day 3, so still very early days, BUT, there is a marked difference in Ollie Boy... more settled, less panic and he is listening to me.... and obeying.. (before all this started he was quite obedient).... We have a comunication level once more

He is not drowsy, still very alert. Stress levels have reduced dramatically.... and joy of joys, no barking whatsoever during the night... in fact when I went through to him at 8am, he was just waiting for me....

Even better, he is actually sleeping... not dozing with an ear and eye open... but actually sleeping soundly enough for REM :D  

He is still 'Ollie'... no change in his personality, which I hasten to add is fantastic, .... I have my boy back :D :D :D

Ollie will be getting his photo taken at Darlington for his debut into the 'modelling world' ;) and I have been asked to give a short endorsement on the product for the promotional advertising

Alison... thank you so much for putting me intouch, without this, Ollie would still be in his own fearful and panicsticken little world.... I am so grateful :)