The vet is not far from where I am in Oldham Greater Manchester, and he was adamant that I brought her in at 28 days and from teh x-rays itwas just 28

Linda, sorry to hear about your problem..to be honest I would change Vets and sue them!  I would also consider aborting the litter...but then thats me! If you really think you can cope, with help and support, well it's a hard job and I wish you all the best, regards, Dawn(some people on here forget that we're all human and sometimes make mistakes or wrong choices...we all have to start somewhere and I guess you're getting a baptism of fire!)

personally I would like to know where she got them hip scored when I have only just got Sol's results back after 6 weeks and was advised by my vet that they were taking longer than usual so could possibly take up to 8 weeks? 28 days? Not convinced myself :-( this whole thread seems a bit strange to me

STANGE OR NOT ITS A FACT, I ONLY GOT THE RESULTS YESTERDAY AFTER SHE HAD ACTUALLY HAD HER SCAN

Sorry caps was on not shouting, but i don't tell lies

Linda, it is terrible what has happened and I guess your vet has spoken to you about aborting the litter also, you have also had advice here that this perhaps is not the right time to have this litter, and you are talking to very experienced people on here, who have many years of breeding behind them, but I guess from your responses you are going to go ahead and have this litter no matter what.

I guess the thought of cute pups is over-riding everything that is being advised.

We all on here know the pitfalls and could list many things that can go wrong, I personally took my time and took 4 years to actually go ahead and breed, I didn't just read, but went along to watch studs and whelpings, until I knew every conceivable thing that could go wrong (and right ;-)  )  You need to know how to save your bitch or pups if there are complications before anything else. If you have the studs breeder behind you for advice and help, that is fantastic, and invaluable to you, at least you have that. :-)

For the moment all you can do is read and read and read some more, learn about everything you can, we are here at CD to help too, but please don't just sit and wait for it to all just happen, you have a few weeks to go, in that time you need to learn everything you can, we are also here to help with any questions you may have or worries but you need to do the hard work yourself, get books, go on lab sites and read their breeding pages, soak up all the knowledge that you can.

Once you have done that, then you will feel more able to cope anything you don't understand we are here for you.

Personally I would prefer you to wait for a litter until you know everything first, but that is your decision alone. If you are willing to jump into the deep end first then you had better learn to swim fast!

the vet never mentioned aborting the litter, i have another appointment this week

Well that is a real surprise the vet has not mentioned it, especially when it was all the assistants fault, it is your decision Linda to decide whether you and your bitch are ready, take the few days until the next vets appointment to get as much knowledge as you can and then really think about it seriously, also look into how you will cope with perhaps 9+ pups pooing and peeing all over, you need to sort out a good whelping and puppy bringing up area too :-) If you abort, it is just an injection for your bitch, she will come straight home with you.  If you don't and go ahead with the litter we are here to help in the coming weeks. :-)

Absorb everything you are advised here and elsewhere.

Linda, I'm sorry I know people mean well and have the best interests of the dogs at heart, but I do feel the replies have been very negative and unkind, when after all this is not a situation of your own making! Unfortunately in every area of life accidents do happen, resulting in situations which are very far from ideal, but nevertheless do sometimes have positive outcomes, if handled with common sense, wisdom and lots of hard work.
I was in a similar situation 3 yrs ago when the lab bitch we bought from her breeder at a year old turned out to have had a secret liaison with the stud dog about 4 days before we collected her.:rolleyes: So we had her on the 15th August and on the 13th October she gave birth to 6 puppies. - the same timing as yours will be. We donated one puppy to Hearing dogs for the deaf, and he is having a wonderful life with his "recipient". We kept one boy (I'd really wanted a boy in the first place.:rolleyes:.) and found really good homes for the remaining 4.I have to say it was not a situation I would have ever, ever chosen, and it was horrendously hard work - really 24/7. OH and I did not got out together for 3 months - I certainly could not have done it without his unstinting support, and lots of advice from the original breeder who is in another area of the UK. Nevertheless we managed, and I'm sure you will too. My very best wishes to you.

In what way do you think people have been unkind?  They have pointed out the realities just like you.  Is that unkind?  It is good that you found homes for all of yours but when you consider that each of those places could have been taken by one of the surplus from the 45,000 labradors bred every year I think Linda should continue to seriously consider whether to continue at this point when there is an alternative possible.

Thank you so much, my males breader has said he will be ther for me every step of the way, again they are in south wales and we are greater manchester but i know hes on the end of a phone line.

carene :-( but I do feel the replies have been very negative and unkind, when after all this is not a situation of your own making!

Can I put a spin on this for all the replies from others who you may feel 'unkind' this is not so, and what has been said needs to be looked at just as importantly as your reply and others of encouragement.

What you need to remember is that many members here also work/have worked in rescue, or have dealings with dog rescues.  The sights they see must break their hearts every day. So what they have to say is very important.

Labs are one of the most popular breeds around, there are thousands of them born and thousands go through rescue every day, usually when they are reaching the kevin stage, owners decide they can not handle their cute pups, who are now bouncing hyper adolescents who whithout proper training are now nightmares on 4 legs. So bye, bye doggie. :-(

Even though I looked into breeding many years before doing it, even though I have waiting lists as long as my arm, even though I throughly check out all new owners of my pups, even though 99% stay in touch with me and I know my pups are happy dogs now, even though I know all these things, I bet if I worked in rescue for one day, I would never want to breed again!

So the above posts are from concerned colleagues, not unkind or negative, every angle must be considered first.

A breeder should not only know anything and everything about their breed,
Know everything there is to know about whelping and bringing up the pups,
But also be there throughout the pups upbringing, be able to offer advice to the new owners in every way from pup, to adolescent to adult to senior dog.  That way rescue have less chance of ending up with one of these pups.

The plus side is that Linda seems to have 2 good dogs, has her stud's breeder at her side, has family who have always had labs and a father who bred labs, so she is not as green as some. She just needs to decide whether she is ready herself for this and the long term commitment to keep her pups out of rescue and in good homes, as best as we all can. And whether she is ready for the whole breeding process.

It is no good highlighting problems afterwards this would not be such a good website, the good and bad all need to be thought through. I'm sure that Linda appreciates that and will make the decision that suits her best.

Whoa whoa whoa here.

OK, there is a litter of unplanned labs on the way - BUT, the positive news is:

1. She has the back up and help from her breeder
2. The dogs have been hip scored
3. They are KC registered
4. She is trying to learn

Now, there are a LOT worse pups being produced out there, so, while not ideal, this is better than puppy farms and breeding from untested stock.
So, for what its worth I think she should go ahead with this litter :)

JMO.

the dogs go in at 8am and no dog can be collected before 6pm in the evening


Yep, same policy at our vets - even for hip scoring.

I will act as Devil's advocate - as someone who would prefer to go through life wearing rose-tinted glasses, I do feel it is extremely important to point out the downfalls - one automatically thinks all the fluffy, lovely thoughts, and the balance has to be put forward.

It does sound as if Linda is going to allow her bitch to have these puppies - they both seem well-bred, her stud's breeder has promised to be on the end of a phone - but I still say she should try and get hands-on experience, if at all possible, with someone who has a bitch that is expecting puppies before hers are due.   If she can find someone who has a placid bitch, who will not be stressed out if a stranger is looking on, I would strongly advise that she goes, and at least observes a normal whelping.

Margot

Yep, I agree totally. Good advice there :)

I know a couple of people in Lab's in the South Manchester area.  If you want to e-mail me I could give you their details and they might be able to give you some advice as you seem willing to want to know.

i'm not being funny everyone but now that we know that she is going to be having the pups can we start advising her on what she needs to help her along the way?

The Book of the Bitch is a must but have a look at the heading on the top of the breeding part and you will get good advice from there and look at older posts where lots of advice has been given!

JUST ORDERED THE BOOK FROM AMAZON AND IT SHOULD ARRRIVE AROUND TUESDAY

Why are you shouting ? The results will be in the BRS for this quarter

sorry caps on.

Surely any vet should have offered the morning-after jab?

the replies have been very negative and unkind

I'm sorry - I have been one of the main posters and I certainly have no intention of being negative or unkind.    It would be unkind to let someone who, on their own admission, had not yet fully researched the ins and outs of breeding to go on without being fully appraised of all options.

As the OP would appear, from her posts, not to have experienced breeding a litter before, it is only fair to her to point out all the pitfalls that might occur, especially with a Christmas/winter litter.   Believe me - I've been there - and NEVER AGAIN!

As we have it, it would seem that the Veterinary Surgery has been less than straight forward - if they knew that the dogs had tied, they should surely have immediately informed the OP, and offered the anti-mate injections.   As they haven't done so, I have put that forward.   As the OP hasn't yet done all research, she may not be aware of how many lab puppies there are available every year - so again, it has been pointed out.   She has to know all the options available to her.  

I have made positive suggestions - I first suggested book of the bitch (which I see Linda has ordered :) ) - and I have also suggested that she tries to get "hands on" experience with an experienced breeder before her bitch is due.

So what is negative about that?

Margot (who can't, it seems, do right for doing wrong!)

dont worry linda im sure you will be fine, raising a litter is hard work but very rewarding when you know you are doing your best for them and your bitch. The book of the bitch will be a valuable part of your learning. we have labs and have been shot down many a time on these boards but at the end of the day pick out the useful advice from these and disregard any unkind opinions, at the end of the day they are not really helping you to care for your bitch or raise the litter. i do believe that maybe a change in vets could be a good idea but then this is entirely up to you. Good luck and if you want to ask anything then dont hesitate to PM me
bye for now

>we have labs and have been shot down many a time on these boards

How strange. I've just read through all your previous threads and haven't found anything that 'shoots you down'. Perhaps it's all a matter of perception? ;)