Actually, we pay that to my mum to look after 3 children to allow us to work. Its basically 2 full time nursery places so really not that excessive. Also, its all relative, normally in order to earn decent money you have to live in the far more expensive south (I work from home else we'd be paying a LOT more than this down South) and £1250 is cheap for that area - and here. Average 1st house price is £190,000! Its all relative.

£100 a month on uniform? Average it out over a year on jumpers, shoes, school trips, lunch money - its easily in the region of £100. These are not luxuries - they are necessities.

And I'll say it again - I am NOT paying it - can't afford it :)

I also live in the expensive south and have to say that I have never paid £100 a month for school expenses and just couldn't afford to - not even when we were both working full time. My children have always gone to school well-dressed and well fed and have participated in all school trips at primary school. When they were at secondary school they went on trips relevant to their chosen subjects - residential geography field trips etc - but did not participate in trips such as skiing in Italy. The majority of children who went on the leisure trips came from homes where this sort of activity was a normal part of their home life anyway.

Although my children would have liked to have participated in these events they never felt hard done by that these trips were beyond our means and , in fact, it spurred them on to do well at school in order that they would then be capable of having a well-paid career which could fund a lifestyle that made trips like that possible if that was what they wanted.

Everyone has different priorities in life and differing amounts of money to achieve those priorities.

Everyone has different priorities in life and differing amounts of money to achieve those priorities.

Absolutely but with imagination and inginuity (I really should have had a better education and learned how to spell! ;)) all things are possible! :D

Private school education is a choice, just as much as smoking your money or drinking it. Affordability is an interesting concept  - I can't afford to go out socialising every night, because 50% of our income goes on school fees, does that make me disadvantaged? For others going out every night is a way of life, but they will say they can't afford school fees.

Thankfully we still have freedom of choice when it comes to spending our disposable income and thank goodnes we all do it differently !

Thats right. And everything that we spend goes on supporting other folk and other industries - so its all a big circle :D

Anyway, I know the score now and luckily my daughter has settled very well at her new comp school and is happy - which is the most important thing. I will spend whatever spare we have on a tutor I think :)

My sister did that with her youngest and my friend did it with his daughter.  They could concentrate on their weeker subjects with happened, in both cases, to be Maths :)  It was very successful, getting them the grades they needed.

Private school education is a choice, just as much as smoking your money or drinking it.

The point I am trying to make is that this is simply not the case for some people on low incomes.  I realise that some people on low incomes smoke and/or drink, but there are some people that do neither and still most definitely could not afford private school fees - where is the choice in that?.  Some people can just about afford to keep their heads above water financially despite having no holidays, etc. In a lot of cases, it is only those not on a low income that have any choice and I feel that a child should be entitled to the best education regardless of its parent's salary (as we probably all do :) )

"The point I am trying to make is that this is simply not the case for some people on low incomes."

There are such places but they are limited.  The old 'assisted places' scheme was one of the first things TB abolished when he came to power, but there are still similar schemes run by and funded by the schools themselves - you just have to know where to look and be happy with the school.
I agree that all children shoul be entitled to the best education regardless of the parents ability to pay, but after decades of meddling (oops reform), new methods and policies this still hasn't been achieved.  Interestingly, in many countries in Europe, the education provided by the state is better than private, and it is those that are failing in the state schools that are educated privately.

JenP I was referring to the fact that some low income families have no choice because unless they could get all their fees paid they could not afford it, and then there are very few of these places available.

I personally do not believe that a private education per se means a better education.  There are some very good teachers at comprehensives and some very poor ones in private schools.

My husband was private school educated and wanted the same for his daughter.  When I decided to leave, I realised that I wouldn't be able to afford school fees on my own, so I did A LOT of research to find what I thought was the best council school in a 20 mile radius of where I was working and bought a home there!

There are ways of low income children receiving an excellent education.  I only ever worked part-time while my daughter was growing up, but she wanted for nothing - not all new and not all without waiting, but she will tell you that she had a brilliant childhood.  It just has to be the priority of the parents.  We had many 'baked bean weeks'! ;)  My wants and needs always came second, but now she's established, this is my time for me and my goodness I'm having a wonderful time! :D  If I had to turn the clock back, I would do exactly the same thing again.

There are ways of low income children receiving an excellent education

I agree and it is not only private schools that offer this.

Unfortunately, not all parents are able to move home to an area with a good school and (as is the case where I went to school) the demand far, far outstrips the number of places and only the very brightest get places. So - in that area - unless you are a well-off family who can afford a house price there or have a council house, you just can't get a place :)

Daisy

We all make choices, if/when we work, where we live, who we live with, ad infinitum - all of our lives! :D  We make our own destiny.  There's absolutely no point in focusing what we can't do.

I moved away from family and friends but within travelling distance of my part-time work, to a cheaper area with a good school and wonderful head teacher.  From there my daughter took the 11+.  There were 60 places for the local catchment area of the grammar school (I couldn't possibly have afforded to live there!) and 30 places for the rest of the county.  My daughter got one of those.

I was bought up that what ever I wanted to do "We can't afford it".  I took exactly the opposite view to bringing up my daughter.  Whatever she wanted to do (or I wanted her to do ;) ) I thought "How can I manage to do that?"  Totally different.

The first thing that the teacher asks when the kids go back to school in Septemeber is "What did you do in the holidays?"  I knew that I couldn't afford the foreign holidays that I'd left behind, so I bought a second hand tent!  May not have been as exotic as some of her friends, but my daughter always had something to write and talk about!

When she wanted to learn to ride, there was no way that I could have afforded lessons.  So I went to work in the stables for a few hours so that she could have a 30 minute lesson.

Everything is possible if you want it enough! :D

Interesting Topic - I went to a comp, private school and a state grammar school.    One main thing that seems to be forgotten is that private schools are still a business.  Most receive no funding from the LEA therefore there are no hard and fast rules between the generic 'private schools' - (putting 'grammar' on a private school name does not make it selective or any better). The private school I went to did lower the fees for people whom were on a lower income - but to be honest it did also cut fees for people who where considering leaving - at the bottom of it  - it was run as a business; "money money money".  The opportunities were not as fantastic as the glossy brochures stated (could give an endless list). Just as a subordinate point (don't shout me down - I'm not demeaning anyone - but fees for the private school are now about £700 a month - and many of the people I have kept contact with are now working in 'bargain booze' 'Argos' and 'KFC' - I'm not using such jobs in a derogative sense - just an example that paying fees does not make the school any better - secure any professional occupations or guarantee any university places  On the flip side the state funded grammar school (which had a fee paying preparation school - but that's a different story) while attaining top raking score in the national league tables (100% of A*-C pupils at GCSE), all the normal stuffy "old boys school", Prince Andrew landing on school field, maths teacher was a wing commander blar bar blar BUT was the teaching better any better than the comp? - No, teachers relied on the fact that the students were bright (100's applied for 90 places) - they had no need to 'teach' and lessons were merely parrot fashion!  . A bright child will do well in a comp and will also more than likely be better prepared for university -  as private school have a tendency to write parent pleasing student reports (who pays the fees - do they want to hear their child is a s**t and will more than likely fail everything and shows no effort?) and private schools wrap students in cotton wool - University or the real working world wont!

Exactly my view nic burton!

> A bright child will do well in a comp

Some bright children will do well anywhere - but not all :)

Also, not all private schools are the same - as in everything, parents should shop around and chose the best for their children. Some private schools are rubbish :)

Daisy

Unfortunately we have an uneven playing field. Doing well depends on parents' financial status, their attitude to education, child's attitude to school, how many children in the family, the area the school is in and the management of the school.  In our neighbourhood we have 2 secondary schools out of the 7 for our town (there is an 8th school which is Catholic).  Regarding the 2 that are in our neighbourhood, 1 has the best exam results out of the 7 and the other has the worst.  School places are allocated depending upon where you live, obviously all in the same vicinity so why is there such a big difference in results?

<Doing well depends on parents' financial status, their attitude to education, child's attitude to school, how many children in the family, the area the school is in and the management of the school>

I think from my experience, that the two most important points in that list are the parents' attitude to education, and the child's attitude to school.

I have been watching this thread with growing interest, as I am from a comfortably off, although not rich background, and in my last year of primary school was presented with three choices by my parents;

1. Go to the same private (boarding) school as several of the friends that I went horse riding with - my parents could afford the fees, but only just compared to some of my friends families.

2. Go to the local state comp that many of my primary (small village school) classmates were going to. The school had a reputation for poor exam results and lots of pupils with behavioural problems.

3. Go to the other state comp in the same town, with a much better reputation, where a few of my friends were going.

I chose to go the school 2! The comp with the bad reputation. I still remained friends with those that went off to boarding school, and to be honest, I didn't really feel as if I had missed out on much, as I still got to see my beloved horse everyday, whilst they had to wait until the hols.

I left school at 16 with reasonable GCSE grades, having been on art trips, skiing trips, and taking part in loads of extra activities. I spent two years at art college after having a bit of a wobble about what I wanted to do (I spent nearly 2 months at an agricultural college first). I now have a well paid job (although unrelated to art), and have nearly completed an economics degree with the OU.

I bought my own house at 23, and whilst I am by no means rich, I live a comfotable lifestyle. Several of my friends who went to boarding school are still looking for good jobs, and one of the friends who I went to the comp with is serving time in prison.

My parents always instilled in me a sense of 'life is what you make of it'. I had some great opportunities at school, which I made the most of. Many of the pupils did not make the most of the opportunities that were presented to them, and it is not just about being able to afford these things, many of the trips I went on would have been school funded for those on low incomes.

However, whilst I learnt a lot at school, most of what I learnt was just to get me through my exams. My most important lessons were learnt at home. Through my parents I have learnt social skills, developed interests in subjects not commonly taught at school, and most importantly, have realised that if you have a good work ethic and attitude, you can get far more out of life than someone with no work ethic, a poor attitude but buckets of money.

I'm not entirely sure what point I am trying to put across here (just randomly rambling I suppose :-D ) and as I do not have children, it is difficult for me to see things from a parents viewpoint, but really, if you have the right kind of attitude to life, and make the most of what you have, you can acheive a secure and comfortable lifestyle, regardless of your academic education.

Essay over!!! :)

Claire

You took the words right out of my mouth Nic ! -excellent post :D

Yvonne

totally agree - you get out what you put in :)

My chin is still on the floor at the thought that anyone could spend £100 per month on school uniform.  That's probably half of my families total annualspend on shoes and clothing in total!

Wow!

Jackie we had the new term list of prices and Flo needs two new jumpers. They are nearly £20 each

They are acrylic and horrible :rolleyes:

Lucy
xx

Why two ??? Mine have never had more than one at a time :) Even when mine were at private schools I never spent £100 per month on uniforms :) Daughter had one kilt for junior school which lasted her 4 years. Most schools have second-hand uniform shops and a lot of clothes such as shirts can be bought in M&S etc :)

Daisy

Or Asda Daisy!  Amazing prices for school uniform - and reasonable quality.  I agree that shoes can be expensive (and I wouldn't buy anything other than Clarks) but if you take care of them and polish them regularly there isn't an issue.

My poor son manages with one jumper.  It's easy to wash and dries very quickly.