Just wanted to pass on a warning which came from my dog trainer this evening.

Two dogs in the Dereham, Norfolk area have both had massive fits very soon after having a flea treatment to the base of the neck (it's a very well known brand).  I believe the 2 vets in the town are reporting these to the manufacturer in case it's a batch issue problem.

I bought Earls last lot from an online pet pharmacy, so am hoping his is not an affected batch.

Don't have any other details but will pass anything on as I hear it.

Helen

There is more than one brand and variety.  Any reason you don't want to say which brand caused the problem? 

Absolutely. There are several different spot-ons, and most have different varieties for different-sized breeds. Which one is it?

The trouble is, as it's hearsay, it might be considered libellous if the story is not accurate.

Well then best not to post a warning at all, since none of us know which brand or variety we are being warned against.   Previously here there have been posts about some problems with Frontline Plus, btw.

I think you are right :)  just speculating about what brand it might be, if indeed it happened just as reported, is neither any good to the consumer or the company under suspicion.

sorry, I meant Frontline Combo, there's a previous thread on it.

I agree. Either post a specific warning or none at all, otherwise they're all being brought into disrepute, and some people will be being alarmed for no reason, and the others who perhaps are about to use the particular product won't know to be cautious, with perhaps fatal resuls.

It's best just to report the reaction so that it can be investigated.  As we know, sometimes it turns out to be a maladminstration of the product.  Only a proper investigation can determine whether a product is more dangerous than the product data sheet currently suggests.

It can never be libellous if it`s true, even if it is untrue it still can`t be libellous cos no names mentioned.

MiniMinsk feel free to to name the brand if it`s true :)

It is clear from the original post that it is hearsay. Of course it is not libellous if the product is not named but as other posters have pointed out speculation about what product it is gets nobody anywhere.

**It is clear from the original post that it is hearsay**

Yes thats perfectly clear, but hearsay or not as long as the info`s correct it`s still not libellous. I`m confused as to why the law`s been brought into this at all

But I do agree the warnings not much good without naming the product.

Of course it's not libellous if it's true but as MM cannot vouch for that it seems to me they would be taking a bit of a chance naming the product anyway.  A report that turned out to be untrue could be very damaging to a business if spread wide enough.  You know what some people are like even if they were later told it wasn't as reported they would not erase it from them minds and would work on the "no smoke....." theory :)

Would think M/M dog trainer would be responsible enough not to be a rumour spreader tho :)

Maybe, I don't know her :).  MM may be happy to take the chance that it has been told to her with full accuracy but, personally, I would never rely on someone elses veracity to keep me on the straight and narrow.  Admin might not either ;).

I`m sure M/M is responsible enough to decide herself & as admin are always on the ball there`s nothing to worry about :D :D :D

I'm sure she is :)  I suspect that is why she did not name the product in the first place.

I`d hope the vets report it to the adverse reaction scheme also!

I am sure that the original poster would consider emailing people privately with the name if you PM her. I agree that it would be unwise to post the name on a public board, and that we do indeed have to consider the law on this board, both on a personal level and out of respect for admin, as we are all bound by the laws of libel. Saying otherwise is incredibly naive. I feel it is unfair to respond to the original poster quite so negatively...after all, the post was in good faith. Please don't worry Helen, and dont be afraid to post again, I am afraid some folks on here are a little low on tolerance :rolleyes:

Presuming you mean my posts were negative to the OP please note I posted in response to Cairnmania request for the information.  As I said in a previous post, I believe MM has withheld the name of the product understanding, as I do, the need for discretion.  I don't believe that is being negative at all.

My vet son Chris says that these sort of panic posts cause untold strife for him, as people immediately stop using any related product with no good reason.   He says it's entirely up to the attending vet to submit and adverse reaction report, with full details.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

as with all things in life not everything suits everyone.  for those two dogs who have had the reaction how many have been perfectly ok  ?

I asked my current Vet how many adverse reaction reports he had submitted and he told me that he had only ever completed 2 in his career and he's due to retire soon! :( 
Accepting that all drugs can give adverse reactions to a percentage of patients, that can't possibly be sufficient to give the drug manufacturers a true picture of the effect of their products. :(
It really is no wonder that people who have contact with more than their own family dogs are beginning to ask questions?

If he had completed none in his career I might be inclined to think he just could not be bothered but as he obviously is bothered enough to complete them maybe it is a reflection of how few significant adverse reactions do occur. 

This Vet is very interested in the reactions that I've seen in the grooming parlour, but as he says, if the owners don't go back then he wouldn't know to make the connection.  He's also very interested in alternative treatments for skin problems etc.  My Vet in Berkshire wasn't interested in anything that would affect his car payments! :(  Shame I don't have a parlour down here - although he has offered me a job at the surgery!

How would it affect his car payments?

Monies coming into the practice, possibly........?

If they don't sell one product, they sell another, problems still need treating or preventing. 

Isabel, I would ring and say "I've got a dog on the table that you treated 2 days ago and ....................."  He would reply, "Send them back.  They need another consultation - that'll be my car payment taken care of for this week!"  Perpetuates the cycle of income! :(
The Vet down here is what I would call an old fashioned Vet in his manner if not his look!  He works in jeans and a t-shirt and plays in a rock band!  But his only concern is to fix the animals as quickly and cheaply as possible, and he still manages a very good lifestyle! ;)

I think if he is actually saying that himself he is speaking rather tongue in cheek :)

Do you know him Isabel?
I've known him for 20 years and he has no sense of humour! :(

It certainly comes across as a joke to me.  Perhaps you just didn't share his sense of humour :)

It's not what you say but how you say it and that isn't possible to understand in the written word.

It was an excellent practice when I first joined and this Vet had just qualified from Vet school.  When the senior partner retired some 12 years later and junior took over, everything changed - not for the better.  Such a shame because he had a superb mentor.  So I base my judgement on 12 years of knowing the man.  Your judgement is based on.......?

We obviously have very different experiences of Vets' ethics.  They are human like the rest of us and embrase all human characteristics.  Your blanket continual insistance that all Vets are infallible and have superior intentions to the rest of the human population is just not realistic. :rolleyes:

My judgement is based on the comment as you tell it :)  It is plain to me it is a quip, not a hugely amusing quip but a quip none the less.  Perhaps more amusing is the idea that you have considered that he is really sharing his personal financial arrangements with you all these years ;)
I have no blanket insistance that all vets are infallable, I expect their intentions are pretty much on a par with most people which in my experience are generally good so I also lack a blanket insistance that they are all out to extract as much money out of people as possible regardless of the issues of evidence based practice and welfare considerations.  But that aside and looking just as what we are discussing here it continues to look very much like a quip to me :)

One of my vets has been known to comment "that's my holiday paid for" and it must be one of the least money grubbing practices in the country. Yes, like every other vet  they do charge a huge mark up on routine things like vaccination, but that is their bread and butter. On the big stuff however, they are more than reasonable and I am constantly surprised by the costs of major surgey/investigations from other vets quoted here and elsewhere.

I appreciate that Val knows her vet and we don't, so she is going to know what is said in humour and what is not, but in myvet's case his holiday quips are just that - quips.

I appreciate that Val knows her vet and we don't, so she is going to know what is said in humour and what is not,

Thank you jas. :)

It was the clients who used to crack jokes like that where I used to work.  The farmers used to come in and say "I see the vet's got another new car then - I expect I own at least half of that."  Or when clients who were also friends came in and had a large bill to pay, they used to say, "There, that's your wages paid for another month."  Just a joke.

As things that vets say and do get round like wildfire, Val's vet was unwise to say the least, whether joking or not.

I've seen comments on here to suggest that vets are inept, idiotic, brain-dead, only in it for the money, cover up their mistakes, hide things from clients, over-estimate their abilities, push the most expensive treatments etc.  I've not seen any suggestion that vets are infallible, always right or always self-aware.

What ever spray or spot on treatment you use the dogs should be monitored for a day or two afterwards. I say this because one of my dogs would with in a couple of hours of having a spot on treatment start throwing up and generally become very unwell, yet the odd thing was with the same company's spray treatment he was always ok, What caused this difference in reaction? We never got to the bottom of it, but after it happening a second time we never used the spot on treatment again.