Where do I look to find a suitable Black Lab to cover my bitch? Not sure what to look for or what questions I should be asking? What it costs? etc etc etc I am a complete novice and need some good advice....

Start by reading the sticky topic about breeding from your pet bitch at the top of the breeding forum. :)

You'll find him at the shows or field trials where you take your bitch to find she is of suitable quality to breed from, then you ask the owner nicely and check that the dog like your bitch has been hip scored, elbow scored and eye tested, and that the pedigrees are compatible. :)

or you will find him on champdogs main site, lots to chose from but some breeder are quite picky which is understandable because the dog and bitch should be well suited i.e breed type , health screening, pedrigree lines.
But please beware breeding  a pet bitch isnt for the faint hearted!! you also need a bottomless purse and you cannot guarantee a return to cover all your expenses, a litter of pups is also not a means to a living either believe me you with what you have left over after raising  a litter correctly would not get you very far as im sure others will agree

You definitely need to ensure that both your bitch and the stud have all the necessary health tests then go round to shows, fieldwork events etc. and see what type you like etc and then talk to everyone that you can who is in the know!

also you may have to travel to find the most suitable stud, sometimes 2 or 3 times. the dog down the road may be closer but may not be the best suited. there is so much to consider!!

do you have homes lined up? (good ones) at any one time there are 390 litters of labs for sale on the kennel club site and many more im sure unregistered.

dependant on numbers we have more than enough homes for the puppies. Our bitch has generations of FT Ch's throughout, so much so she's the only name on her pedigree cert that isn't red - should we look to compete her first? Money isn't an issue nor is room or accomodating the pups for as long as neccessary, she has a low hip score but hasn't been elbow scored - is that important?
I suppose the main concern is getting a stud we feel is compatible and of good lines to keep up the quality.

>should we look to compete her first?

Yes, otherwise there is no way of knowing that the combination of her parents genes have succeeded in producing other good working dog unless someone with experience can assure you that she does have that aptitude but competing would give a broader opinion on her.
Elbow scoring is recommended for this breed by the KC.

again I am a novice so forgive my ignorance but what is involved in field trials etc what would we be best competing her in?

Her breeder should be able to help get started if they took her dam to Champion status.

She is I presume DNA clear of PRA & not just clinically screened clear?

im not sure its 390 litters, seems a bit steep

There are roughly 45,000 labradors registered with the KC each year, and it's not unreasonable to assume that there will be getting on for that number born that aren't registered. 390 litters available at any one time would be about right for those figures. I'm afraid labradors in general are 10-a-penny. :( Quality labradors are much harder to find among the rabble. :(

>Quality labradors are much harder to find among the rabble. 

Sadly, I have to agree, red ink is simply that... is does not mean that the pups will be the Quality of the parents and ancestors... I have a lovely little girl here, I bought in a couple of months ago, and on paper she looks fantastic...sadly looking at her now, at 5 months old, she will never see the showring.... nor do I consider her good enough to breed on from, regardless of her parentage.... on paper and complimentrary conformation, the mating was a perfect match... in reality, a litter that should not have been born :(

9,632 Labrador Retriever puppies registered in the 1st quarter of 2006 (Jan- Mar)

12,703 ""          ""           ""            ""       in the 2nd quarter of 2006 (Apr- Jun)

:rolleyes:

wow!

In reply to labkite1st, there are 347 Labrador litters on the KC puppy register right now

Dawn R.

Goodness that certainly give puppy buyers the chance to choose a well bred one from winning parents and from an experienced breeder who can give them back up with any problems that they might have.  A novice with one or two dogs wouldn't have that experience.  I'm glad that it's not my breed! :(

remember, we are not here to put people down OR their breed, what must it be like to be so perfect and have such perfect best of breed dogs, to be able to critisize so much.
Just goes to show how trustworthy and kind the breed is for them to be so popular!
haven't heard of many labs mauling children or being ankle biters!

Actually, I think they are at the top of the list for dog bites (although I would guess that is more because of the sheer volume of labradors than for any other reason). 
However, the lab rescues are overflowing with labs and there ARE too many being bred.  My heart sinks when yet another lab owner who doesn't know what they are doing wants to breed their lab.  I don't think anyone expects perfection, but there's nothing wrong with aiming for it.  I can never understand why people can't do the learning before they start to breed.  I'm sure if they did many litters would never be born.

I can never understand why people can't do the learning before they start to breed. 

This is exactly what I am attempting to do. I know on paper my bitch has quality blood lines, I would also like to compete her as I've been told she has the 'right stuff' by the breeders of her. I really just wanted to know more about choosing studs etc and in the majority people have been very helpful, other have been very condescending but I suppose that's human nature. Granted I am a novice to breeding, I do not intend to become a breeder but to have 1 maybe 2 litters from what I feel is a a very good bitch and a big part of my life.

Just a technicality, but you only need to have a single litter to be a breeder, just as you only need to have one child to be a parent. ;)

I agree with Val, that is not a criticism, simply stating the facts.  Labradors are the most overbred breed... for a few years on the trot, there have been more Labradors registered than the whole of the gundog group put together.... and that doesn't include the numbers unregistered :(

>Just goes to show how trustworthy and kind the breed is for them to be so popular

Sadly, with the lack of knowledge in novice breeders and mass puppy farming, this is becoming cause concern in the breed circle....  There are quite a few Labs out there with temperaments far less trustworthy than we would like.

you cannot put every lab breeder in the same boat! yes, maybe there are too many litters born each year and maybe a few in rescue but i wish we new the percentage of other breeds in rescue that people forget to mention. why dont we just wipe out out the whole lab breed altogether then you lot would have nothing to moan about all the time.
As soon as anyone asks a question about breeding labradors, it seems like the end of the world when all evryone can do is real off " over 45,000 labs registered last year"
we just need to ask ourselves why is there so many? does anyone have an answer? probably not, but maybe then if all on CD feel so strongly about the over breeding of labs then there shouldn't be as many breeders on the mainsite.
most of the breeders have 2 or 3 litters a year and have numerous dogs just the same as many other breeds out there.
do  breeders really need 5-6 dogs?
at the end of the day this forum is for advice and for individual opinions on the topic started, not to banish anyones hopes and dreams as everyone has to start somewhere, you were once a non-breeder starting out, try not to rain on others parade!

>at the end of the day this forum is for advice and for individual opinions

Which is exactly what you have received

>if all on CD feel so strongly about the over breeding of labs then there shouldn't be as many breeders on the mainsite.

The forum is a seperate entity from the main CD pages

come on? is it,?people may go there to look for a stud dog,then come on here to ask a question!!!!!!

the fact that on the top of the forum theres a "home" option directing you back to the breed pages,suggest not!

& on the main page then direct you to the forum to ask a question to me suggests they are completly together,or am i totally mising something here?

There are lots of members of the forum who have never bred a litter and have no intention of breeding a litter michelle. There are lots of breeders who have no intention of joining a chat forum either :)

Both the breeders pages and the forum are on the main site yes of course, they are all run under the same shelter

yes i realise that :)
,ive never bred a litter,
but i do use the main "home" pages for research

are you saying the forum is nothing to do   with the breed pages?

Read the OP's statement and my reply and you will see what I meant :)

>we just need to ask ourselves why is there so many?

Probably the same reason that Staffies are churned out in vast numbers - people want to make money. The Andrex adverts have been a disaster - everyone wants a cute playful puppy as shown, and is surprised when what they get is a normal puppy, with all the chaos and destruction that entails. Then, when they reach adolescence and haven't miraculously trained themselves, the easy way out is rescue. :( We have the same problem in dalmatians every time a new film is released; the poor labrador is at the forefront of advertising every day of the week. :( Then of course there's the double-whammy of the 'rare colour' syndrome producer, where chocolate puppies are churned out by the barrowload.

IMO the labrador is one of the nicest breeds in existence; it's such a terrible shame the breed is suffering so from its own popularity. Reputable breeders must be tearing their hair out in frustration.

i saw a "rare" red at the weekend...seemed to have a "rare vizla" type head though

The fox red is more common in the working world than the showing world, where the pale yellow is the norm rather than the darker shades.

yes ive seen a few fox reds.
this was sort of orange,def not the "fox red" i was expecting tbh (when id heard about it)

Any shade from pale cream to the dark fox red (though not Irish Setter-style mahogany) is correct for a yellow labrador.

vizla type heads are also acceptable are they?

the point i was trying to make was this pup was sold as a "rare" colour & imho dosent even look like a lab,but has characteristics of another breed of that exact colour.

my theory is that they have xd to get the colour & therefore more money for a "rare" colour
OR that is a accidental x that they are trying to pass off as per labs!

it was 398 litters 2 weeks ago

That's a scary number. How very frustrating for the 'proper' breeders and for puppy buyers trying to sort the wheat from the chaff with that!

M.

What happens to any breed if when the "proper breeders" shuffle off this mortal coil there aren't any new breeders to fill the gap? It is like anything else you have to have the younger newer version bringing up the rear.

Imagine the NHS without nurses being trained continually, they are not trained like they used to be and nothing can be done about that, you don't stop the training because things aren't the same as they used to be.

Rhona

Exactly why the new younger version needs to learn from the "proper breeders" before they shuffle off this mortal coil.  But the learning needs to be done BEFORE the pet bitches are mated. :rolleyes:

LOVE + ATTENTION MAKES ALL THINGS GROW - but not well if there isn't a knowledge of how genetics are inherited too. :)

That is what I am trying to do, learn from the more knowledgeable,luckily I already have a mentor and don't depend on this forum, I visit to see if there are anything else I can learn, breeding for me is at least another 18mths  off if not more and I have been studying my breed for 12 months before I got my first dog and he is 2 now,so you can hardly say I have jumped in with both feet.

Yes there are people on here and on the breed forums who I despair of because they are clueless about the breed and more often than not have bought on the spur of the moment.

So PLEASE don't lump me together with those.

Rhona

Excellent. :) Nobody will ever know all there is to know about breeding, and someone who recognises that and wants to learn is always to be commended. Welcome to the long haul! :)

Thankyou Jeangenie.

That is precisely what I was trying to get over.

Rhona

Nobody's lumping you with anyone are they?

New drivers learn from driving instructors; they don't just get into a car and hope for the best! Surgeons are taught by experienced surgeons. Nurses are trained by people who know what they're talking about. A nurse wouldn't/shouldn't be allowed straight onto a ward to tend patients without training and supervision. A surgeon wouldn't be allowed to go and whip out an appendix without being taught how. Likewise new breeders (always welcome!) need to learn from other experienced people, not just dive in at the deep end! After all, these are lives they're messing with. It's a serious matter, not a game where if you get it wrong you can start again from go.

If you wanted a new car you wouldn't go down the road to a bloke who's bought a nice car and he polishes it every week and has it regularly serviced and who's offered to make you one like it, if he's not got some sort of experience in engineering, would you? He might manage to knock together something that has 4 wheels and an engine, but would it be safe?

we just need to ask ourselves why is there so many? quote from labkite1st

There are so many because people don't think!!

There are so many Labradors born, because too many people with a lovely pet bitch breed a litter from her without enough knowledge. Too many are bred by puppy farmers for this instant society to buy off the shelf thinking that they are the perfect pet that suits all. Too many are bred by greedy people who think they are easy to 'get rid of' for an easy buck. Too many people are doing it wrong, breeding badly. We are just trying to do our bit to redress the balance, and provide a little food for thought.

Given that only abpprox 10% of dogs and bitches are good enough to breed from, it seems that too many people are breeding becuse they can.

Dawn R.

I actually think its a numbers game. Labs are popular, sold in higher quantities to more homes than other breeds, and by the law of averages you are going to get more people wanting to breed - meaning the pyramid effect increases. This will happen until supply far exceeds demand... at which point prices will come down and more and more people will purchase labs because they are cheaper and then go onto breed...

What happens to the pups that don't sell though I wonder...

Ask Mattie who will be able to tell you

Unfortunately, I think I already know the answer. But even rescues will be at capacity eventually...

And some of the labs I see are so far removed from what I would consider to be a "quality lab" they might aswell be fat crossbreeds.

Very true. A good lab is hard to find, while you virtually fall over the poor ones.