Just a quick question to you all,
How many of your vets clean your dogs skin area before giving a vaccination/jab?  I only ask this because after my beautiful little girl had her first vax she came up with a lump which when I phoned the vet said it was a reaction and just to keep an eye on it. As a couple of days had passed I still wasn't happy as she was very lethargic still (it was in the heat wave at the time) so wasn't sure if it was the heat or something else so insisted the vets took a look. When I got there she was gob smacked at the size of the lump (even though I had said it was the size of my hand across her back running from the tops of each front legs right across the scruff/shoulders) she then stuck a needle in to draw off what she thought would be fluid, this then turned out to be a massive abscess and has had to have it drained and drains left in etc. now I really don't know what to do.... (I have certainly moved vets now her treatment is complete as I am not happy for her to have a 2nd vax there) do you think this could have been caused by them not cleaning the area before she had the vaccination? as there was no punture wounds or any foreign bodies from the outside I could see...

My vet in Sweden always did, no vet I have ever been to in the UK has done.

Never known it to be done.

nope just straight in,no cleaning done by my vet .

yes my vet cleans the area first

Emz,  Intervet specifically states the skin should not be cleaned - "Avoid contamination of vaccine with traces of chemical sterilising agents. Do not use chemicals such as disinfectant or spirit to disinfect the skin prior to inoculation"

I've heard of this kind of reaction to vaccinations before.  Poor little girl, hope she gets better soon.

my vet uses cottonwool and water to clean the site

Hi Emz77
Unfortunately vaccines can cause a variety of unwelcome reactions and I'm really sorry your lovely girl had such a nasty side effect.
I can totally understand your frustration that the vet didn't seem too bothered when you first noticed the lump.

Thanks all for your replies, I don't know if you can remember about Blade being ill back at easter time up until recently well, I am sure his problem was caused by an injection he received whilst in the care of the vets. So either the surgery is doing something seriously wrong or I am just very unlucky surely I can't be that unlucky can I

I would say you've certainly done the right thing by changing your vet.

Perhaps your dog is not very tolerant of injections or vaccinations...?  In which case, you might want to consider in future whether to continue giving him them.

Hi 123 this is two seperate dogs, Blade hasn't had a booster yet although he is due it now, but wanted to see what the new vet was like after xena's next 2nd vax(she is now 9 weeks old)

Emz
Titre test Blade to establish whether or not he needs a booster!
Maria

Hi Emz
The safest way to vaccinate a puppy is to leave it until after 12 weeks of age!  If you do this the puppy will only need one vaccination as the maternal antibodies have waned at this stage.  Only vaccination for Parvo/distemper and then vaccinate for Lepto at least 2 weeks afterwards.  This advice comes from a well known Professor at Glasgow Uni.  He also advised the following year have a titre test to establish whether a booster is necessary.

Virbac the vaccine manufacturer also advised the titre test in a letter to me after my 3 year old Golden Retriever died after his lbooster!

I don't think the lump you describe was anything to do with not cleaning the area, it was to do with your dog reacting adversely to the vaccine which is common. I think you are wise changing vets as they should have seen your girl as soon as they knew she had a lump near the injection site.

Maria

No vets that I've been to over the years has ever cleaned the area before.

Mum's taking her two pups on Monday to a new vet who charges £25 for the full vaccinations, can't believe it!! My vet charges £41 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just paid £50.75 and that was meant to be the full course but I am not taking her back for the 2nd, her next vax will cost me £33 as they are doing it as a booster as only 1 jab needed so all in all her vax will have cost just over £83

Mine cost over £60.00 for a full course, but then my eye tests also cost more than yours Diane 39.50 for gonioscopy and 31.50 per dog coz Im taking 2 for the standard eye tests, a bit more I think 33.50 for one dog.

My normal vet is something like £50 for the puppy course, but the cheaper one we go to for vaccinations only is just £20 for the full puppy course or £15 for kittens, i.e. 2 jabs.

The safest way to vaccinate a puppy is to leave it until after 12 weeks of age!  If you do this the puppy will only need one vaccination as the maternal antibodies have waned at this stage.

That may be so, but I have never come across any vet that would NOT give 2 whatever the age, if the dog has either not been vaccinated before, or has an unknown background.

That may be so, but I have never come across any vet that would NOT give 2 whatever the age, if the dog has either not been vaccinated before, or has an unknown background.

All I can say is it's about time vet's woke up to the fact that some of their clients are much better informed, and generally more aware of the potential for adverse reactions, than they used to be.

The first jab is usually a different to the second! ;) The first is usually against parvo and lepto with the second being the distemper and hepatitis.

Thanks for that JG that does make me feel better as when I spoke to the second vets they were really helpful and said that it didn't matter what brand the previous vet had used they would still only do the 1 jab! I thought it would have been the same as with kids where they just re-dose them again!!

The first is usually against parvo and lepto with the second being the distemper and hepatitis.

I'm not sure this is correct JG the distemper/parvo/hepatitis is a combined vaccine which can be given either with Lepto or not, the Lepto is the one that can be given seperately, when puppies have two shots they just get double of everything.   

All I can say is it's about time vet's woke up to the fact that some of their clients are much better informed, and generally more aware of the potential for adverse reactions, than they used to be

Couldn't agree with you more tyby!

I have never come across any vet that would NOT give 2 whatever the age

Maybe this is something to do with revenue? 

It's a little like going into a shop and buying cakes if you are overweight, the assistant is going sell you whatever you want!!

Talk about being offensive........... :rolleyes:

Well to me the difference between the £20 for the full initial course or the £12.50 for the booster isn't exactly a lot,and I refuse to believe all vets are only in it for the money, even if you think they are. I know mine are NOT.

no offense intended :rolleyes:

My new vet is definitley not in it for the money either, the old one was!

However, as you said you've never come across a vet who wouldn't give 2 jabs at any age it really just confirms that they are probably in it for the money!   

I give up. You wouldn't even consider the possibility of the vet wanting to make sure the dog is fully protected rather than lining his pocket? :rolleyes:

Oh, another thing: if the vets REALLY just wanted to make as much money as possible, and that is the only reason for why they would suggest 2 injections instead of 1 to older unvaccinated dogs, then can you explain why they wouldn't instead go down the route of telling the owner to have a titre done after the first vacc, seeing as that would be MORE expensive than the second jab?

then can you explain why they wouldn't instead go down the route of telling the owner to have a titre done after the first vacc, seeing as that would be MORE expensive than the second jab?

I can maybe offer a possible explaination for that because every single time that I've had a titre test done by Glasgow Vet School, both after vaccination when I used to have them done many years, and then when I first started using nosodes 10 years ago, I was told that the titre levels were so high that my dogs would never need boosting again.

We all have to do what we think is best to protect our own dogs.

Goldimail,  As I said, my new vet is definitely not in it for the money and has my dogs best interest at heart!

No, it doesn't confirm that they are in it for the money, Maria - whether you think it right or wrong, vets are only going by the instructions given by the vaccine manufacturers:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/fort_dodge_animal_health/duramune_dappi__acyaiw-x002b_ads-_l/-32670.html

As you'll see here, even pups older than 10 wks (and presumably dogs older than 10 wks with unknown vaccination histories) are advised to be given 2 vaccinations by the vaccination manufacturer.

If you want to point the finger at anyone, point it at the vaccine manufacturers and the testing done on vaccine effectiveness - not at vets who are only following guidelines.

don't think you read my post properly 123, I said my old vet was in it for the money, I don't believe our new vet is and I do think they have the animals best interests at heart!  There will be some vets out there who think £ signs when an animal and owner walks threw their doors though, it's human nature, some will some won't!

Mmm and when I asked the Vet that I worked for why he became a Vet as he obviously had no feelings for animals (or people!) at all, he replied "My Mother thought it a suitable profession for me to take!"

But I do thank him for training me that all pups should be vaccinated, but that boosters were Vets' pocket money.  And that was 40 years ago when disease was more ranpant than it is now.

I did, and do, read every post I reply to thoroughly.

You said: However, as you said you've never come across a vet who wouldn't give 2 jabs at any age it really just confirms that they are probably in it for the money!

"They" are probably in it for the money" does imply you mean vets as a group, not just your "old vet". 

I did, and do, read every post I reply to thoroughly

Maybe you misunderstood, or didn't read my post where I said  'my new vet has the animals best interest at heart'   

Maria, I don't give a monkey's sausage what your new vet/old vet/in-the-middle vet thinks or does.

You SAID they are probably in it for the money, with "they", meaning vets in general - which I think is a little harsh on the veterinary profession.

I don't give a monkey's sausage what your new vet/old vet/in-the-middle vet thinks or does.

Then why respond to the post?

Because I wasn't commenting on what you said about your VET, but on what you said about vets in GENERAL.

I'm not quite sure what is so difficult to understand.... :rolleyes:

Just to say that I corresponded with Intervet and was told the following by them "Given your puppy is over ten weeks of age, you are correct that the pup only needs a single vaccination on DHP (Distemper, Hepatitis and Parvovirus) to confer immunity to these diseases in its first year of life"

That's what I was told too Annie, not by Intervet but our vet and the Professor at Glasgow uni!

Yes, but there are many different vaccine brands and not all of them made by Intervet, and some of them with different guidelines.  Vets are only following these guidelines, whether or not you think the guidelines are right.

However, my vet was trying to say I did need my pup to have the two lots of vaccinations despite what Intervet was telling me even though they were using the Intervet vaccine so in fact, they weren't following the guidelines in this case.  As I wanted to give as little vaccine as possible, this mattered to me - someone else might not be concerned.

I must say that I often wonder if vets who have been qualified for a good while get mental blocks on new ways of doing things, and perhaps they don't always have time to keep reading up on the manufacturers recommendations. 
Annies experience isn't the first time I've read of someones vet not following manufacturers protocol.

Hi Trisha,  Vets, however well qualified, are still human beings and like the rest of us are fallible and can get set in their ways.  All I'm asking is that people should be aware when a vaccination is not a good idea by doing their own research on the vaccination protocols and possible drawbacks and questionning the vet as and when necessary to make sure you are happy to go ahead.  The vaccine manufacturer will rightly deny all responsibility if their guidelines are not strictly adhered to (unless of course the vaccine is faulty) and I'm afraid the vet is likely to deny the vaccine was responsible in such cases.

The vaccine manufacturer will rightly deny all responsibility if their guidelines are not strictly adhered to (unless of course the vaccine is faulty) and I'm afraid the vet is likely to deny the vaccine was responsible in such cases.

& in my dogs case they both will also deny responsibility when all the protocols have been adhered too to cover there own backs.

Which is also why some of us are very sceptical about the relatively small number of reported adverse reactions MM :(

Too true The vaccine company refused to accept the forensic findings because the Professor who did them was not a vet ! She had done a lot of work for them in the past & been paid by the company, but suddenly when it showed results they didn't like they refused to accept the results !

I was never offered an adverse reprt sheet to complete & the vets tried to tell me it was "just one of those things!"

I think very few people are aware that you can ask for and complete a suspected adverse vaccine reaction form yourself MM rather than just relying on the vet to report it.  I certainly didn't know until a friend told me.

Although there will always sadly be some healthy animals who will react adversely to vaccines, sometimes very seriously or even fatally as in your own case, it concerns me that people generally feel that vaccines are completely safe for the majority of animals.  Vaccines are only safe if they are given to animals with healthy fully functioning immune systems which haven't been compromised by illness or certain drugs.  This is why vaccine companies stress that vaccines should only be given to healthy animals and why I personally would far rather titre than routinely booster. 

"All I'm asking is that people should be aware when a vaccination is not a good idea by doing their own research on the vaccination protocols"

Exactly :) As I've said in a thread in 'General' - we have much information available to us now, and it enables us to form opinions, make better decisions, and know when questions need to be asked.
Trouble is, unless you know there's a question in the first place, you wouldn't know to look for the answers. I didn't until recently on this subject.

Yes, no-one is infallible, and we have an excellent vet - which is why we didn't pursue our own loss. 'Ick' happens, it's done, can't be undone, so we move on - and having gleaned a little more knowledge can perhaps avoid pitfalls in the future. 
My goal is never retribution, but to be informed and hopefully prevent future problems.