I am actively (loudly :D ) participating in a thread on the horse board about the jockey who headbutted his horse recently.

Most folk are saying it was unacceptable and he should be punished.

Some are saying that far worse happens and we shouldn't over-react.

I am in the first camp. I am sick of seeing horses being hit, whipped, and headbutted for the sake of entertainment.

Someone has mentioned that the reason there is no public outcry about folk hitting horses is because they don't yelp or cry out like a dog. Sobering thought eh? Thoughts on this jockey please?

Well I'm squarely in the first camp with you Chloe!

Lindsay
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Makes me wonder what he might do in private.
He certainly should be punished to demonstrate that this sort of treatment is not only unnecessary (what did he think the horse would learn from it :rolleyes:) but unacceptable.

I thought the headbutting was unnecessary, although from what I saw the horse didn't seem to flinch. I was more annoyed about the way he was jerking the left rein afterwards, yanking the horse's mouth. :( The whole thing seemed spiteful. :(

I am with you Chloe - completely unacceptable.

i have no idea where or what this is about as 1st I have heard of it....however my personal experiences of my head making contact with any horses head, is that I ended up with fractured skull & the horse never noticed  Have you seen the things horses whack their heads against? A human skull wouldnt even register. We have one youngster who was kicked by a large, shod ID in the head & has an inch deep dent & he never flinched!!!

I thought the same thing Sam, then I saw a clip on the tele.  The jockey was wearing a riding hat and hit the horse with the brim part.  Completely unnecessary.

It was completely unnessesary - an angry jocky taking out his frustration on an animal.
I was pleased to hear John McCrirrick complaining about it on tv. He is also in favour of whipping being stopped. He said something like 'Horses are the only animal you can hit and get away with it'.

If this jockey is Paul O Neill, he's already had a 2 day suspension for using his whip excessively.

Seems as if he just wants to win and has no care for the horse he rides. I agree the horse did not look upset on the video but that's not any excuse for what he did. His intention was to pay the horse back for unseating him presumably - what an idiot.

Lindsay
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It looked completely unnecessary to me.
But I ain't no horse woman, I didn't like the way he also yanked at the horses
mouth with the rein either...:(

Perhaps that jockey just has an attitude problem and takes it out on defenceless animals?

Just pure temper - what else does he do to horses when no-one is looking :( :(

Daisy

Makes you wonder, doesn't it ....

I believe he already had a ban for excessive use of the whip.

He headbutted the horse with his skull cap.

My thoughts are give the horse the helmet and allow it to return the favour.

I hate all cruelty, and it is cruelty!!

I would like to do the same to him with a shovel!!!

Heard this on the radio this morning and my opinion is that I don't think such behaviour is acceptable...ever!

Missed a bit about this on the radio - think it is utterly reprehensible .......if he does this when he could be caught by the television cameras - what on earth would he do in a quiet stable?

Should have the book thrown at him - and I hope it hits!

Margot

I agree, this behaviour is not acceptable. Even if the horse felt nothing, in todays world where animal cruelty is on the increase, what does this send out to people.
It shows absolutely no respect for an animal, and is not sending out the correct message about how we should treat animals.
I think he should be reprimanded, and a public apology wouldnt be amiss.

I am really pleased to see such responses. I often think I must be going soft when I look at my approach to horses compared to others.

So, what do we think about the concept of whipping horses being acceptable? Why is it seen as "necessary" in racing to hit a horse? There would be public outcry if a dog were whipped around an agility course? Is it really because the horse doesn't make a sound when hit?

I don't hit my horses, I have no need to. I also find it very worrying that whips are made in pretty colours to attract children to buy them!

I think I'm turning into a tree hugger :D

Welcome to the tree-huggers circle, Chloe!!! :D :D

We are only allowed to wallop one creature .... in my case, it's my OH when he intones the old saying "a woman, a dog and a walnut tree, the more you beat 'em,  the better they be" ........but he can still run faster than me :D

Margot

:D  I must admit, in my early years I loved watching racing.  After a while though in my early 20s I started to realise the whips weren't just fanning but that some jockeys were really whacking the horses hard.

One jockey really stands out in my mind as every time I saw him he seemed to whip his horses - he was well known but I've lost his name - was it Frankie something? I think he makes pizzas now <g>.

Lindsay
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Just as an aside I was interested to see that 3 of the horses from Only Fools on Horses are now up for sale. The winner, JLo for £15K

Ha, just shows what kind of people were involved in that show then, one's who don't care less about horses but the money and their profile   It's a shame that their are people in the dog world who are trhe same!

Head butting horses is appalling behaviour...and sets a terrible example to impressionable children. Disgusting!

I totally agree with you ChloeH, I think the world turns a blind eye on horses when it comes to whipping and as you said the world would go mad if was done to a dog!!!! I have never cropped a horse.... I would spend hours schooling and just being with mine and loved every minute of it  (O they were the days!!).  I think your right, that if they were to cry out in pain, people would take more notice!!. I can`t watch raceing as I cant bear to watch them cropped and even show jumping makes me wince especially if a horse knocks a jump down or refuses particular jump...WHY... its not the horses fault!!! When is the world going to wake up and do something???

Just caught up here. Too bad there cant be more done about it. Why would any single person think it okay to hurt a creature like that?
I am not 'anti smacking' but there is a differnce between taking out your frustration on an innocent and reprimanding if and when necessary.
Karen

Im sure the jockey really got his point across to the horse....'Naturally the horse would equate the head-butt with its disappointing performance earlier on the race-track'.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Think he needs to grow up......maybe subscribe to an anger-management course......

My 11yr old son saw this on the news, and I asked him what he thought. He  said he was horrified!

I am split with the whipping thing because I do carry a whip when I show jump purely for confidence. (Let me explain myself!!). Whether its psychological or not I feel my horse jumps better when I carry a crop. I have only ever used it on him once and that was when he refused a wall in a competition. I hit him once on his bum and that was sufficient. I dont use spurs as I cannot stand them and I try to be soft on his mouth. At pony clubs I think people should be made more aware of using crops as being a bad thing because too many people are given a crop when they dont need one (as I was when I was younger and now need it for the confidence side of things). I think a crop should be a last resort if legs and voice dont work.

Horse racing I am not a fan of anyway because I think it is a disgusting and horrid sport and would never watch it! I think there is too much emphasis on beating the horse over the finish line rather than the welfare of the horse. How many winners of races do you see actually make a fuss of their horse if they win a race? If I'm in a competition and I think my horse has tried hard I will make a big fuss of him. The caring part of horsemanship is dying and its all about winning - which is evident in the next generation as their parents get cross with them if they knock a pole/ refuse a jump/ dont turn tight enough etc etc

I have only ever used it on him once and that was when he refused a wall in a competition. I hit him once on his bum and that was sufficient.

Please don't think I'm having a go at you - i used to ride when a teenager and went to some establishments when i did hit horses (hated it but did what i was told).

I just wondered though - do you feel we (as humans) have a right to hit a horse in such circumstances because:

maybe the horse wasn't set up right (rider error)
maybe it was dazzled/felt ill/had eye problems/was having an off day etc etc
maybe he had no courage to jump that day
maybe he just made a mistake and refused rather than jump

and so on!

Whereas once i too would have hit a horse (albeit reluctantly) nowadays (if I rode) I never ever would because I feel it would just be unfair. Do you see what i mean? As I said don't feel I'm having a go at you, but your sentence said a lot about why we often see animals told off at horse and dog shows - nice people still feeling the animal should be told off.

Not sure if I've explained myself, but hope you see what I am getting at! :)

Are parents really getting that bad re the winning/losing? that is shocking!

Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay

I know what you mean ;)  One of my instructers used to tell pupils that hitting the horse hard with a crop didn't hurt and likened it to using the same force on his booted leg because they were both only leather :( :( :(   Thank goodness most folks move on

I recently bought a 16 year old ex eventer. He had a good set of results, then he was sold cheaply. He is well bred. We tried him over a log at Cannock Chase and he ran out a bit. We then tried him over a jump and he stopped. Twice. Each time we tried he halted, and tucked his bum under waiting for a smack (which he certainly didn't get here!). We just took him back to basics over a pole on the ground and within a couple of sessions he was flying over jumps and absolutely loving it! Its so easy to sour a horse and smacking them is a good way to do it.

I went to Stafford show recently and watched a bloke hit his youngster going into a jump AND coming out of it, even when the horse jumped it. What an idiot

Goodness, bet that was one very confused horse.

I know what your saying Lindsay and I havent taken offence.

The jump I approached him at was a wall which he had never seen before and he has never before refused a jump so it took me by surprise that he did run out. I used to have a pony that put in really nasty stops resulting in me being at A&E constantly and I was worried that he would think it was a good way of getting out of jumping and therefore if I gave him a smack on his bum he would know that was naughty and hopefully not run out again. I would compare it to smacking a naughty child (oh no here we go - another debate on smacking children! I'm not condoning smacking children as I havent got any and dont know whether I would or wouldnt smack them - but Im digressing!) I didnt whack him at full whack it was just another aid for me to tell him that his behaviour in running out of jumps is unacceptable and he jumped it the next time round so hopefully it did the trick.

Are parents really getting that bad re the winning/losing? that is shocking!

I went to a show a few weeks back and there were 2 young girls in an equitation. It was a very novice show and I was there helping out. One of the girls started her display (remember equitation is about how the rider rides not how the horse behaves) and her pony started playing up so she did as much as she could and finished (I dont think she did much of a canter if any). The other girl was yanking on the horses mouth to get him onto the bit and was very heavy handed, sawing him mouth to make him stop etc. The judge placed her 2nd and her mum went ballistic! She said the other girl hadnt even finished her display so why place her 2nd etc etc. The other girl, bless her, had to listen to all of this and just keep quiet. I think the judges decision is final but other people have different views!!

Thanks for not taking offence Tracey :)

It's not always easy to word things on the internet! 

I totally agree with you that the judge's decision is final, however it seems that many out there disagree! :D

Lindsay
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I hope that it hurt him alot more than it did the poor horse! Needs a good kick in the swingers if you ask me!!