Hi Guys

Sorry, i know this subject has been done to death but i am really confused (it doesn't take much). Right, here goes. My 2 shepherds up until about 6 months ago were on nature diet which was fine but i started looking into a cooked homemade diet and decided to go for it so i have been giving them chicken, rice and veggies most days and just changing the meat on a daily basis to give some variety. I have never given them bones as part of their diet. I have been thinking about feeding them raw for a while but i have read so much conflicting stuff that i am even more confused than when i started.

What i really want to know are the real basics on getting started, do i just change them to raw or do i have to change them over slowly over a matter of weeks?

How do i work out how much to feed them and what ratio of meat to veg etc? My oldest shep (2yrs) weighs 51kg and is very very active, whereas my other one is a mere 35 kg .

Do i put it all in a food processor and blitz it or give it to them in chunks?

Now, as for the bones. I asked the vet who said under no circumstances give them chicken wings? but i have read that loads of you guys do as well as other bones, do you just give them whole or are they too blitzed in a processor?

What about offal?

Do you make up meals and freeze them and then just let them defrost as you need them?
Do i need to add rice or pasta or do they not really need this?

I apologise in advance for all the questions and my naivety but obviously i want to get it right:rolleyes:

Hi Mich,

I've recently started changing mine over to raw only as opposed to occasional raw wings etc and to say the difference is sensational is a woeful understatement!   

I'll pm you the link to my mentor who has been using the RMB and species appropriate food regime for 14 + years - everything is explained in a simple and straightforward way that doesn't terrify the reader :P

Of course there are many other links and info on here if you use the [search] facility - my own personal recommendation when starting out would be not to get too hung up on some details as it can come across so confusing and complex that it's off putting to even begin!

HTH plus the link I'm about to send,
good luck, Teri  

Thankyou Teri that will be a great help, i will look forward to it:-)

Hi Teri
Can I be cheeky and get you to pm me the link too just so I can have a look
Many thanks

Done :)

could i also have the link - don't worry if you don't want to.

Flippin 'eck - if she's got a counter on there it's gonna be going loopy :D 
Two seconds!

Me too, Teri, if you don't mind :) I've been feeding BARF for a while but still keen to learn more.

done :P

Ta muchly :)

Can I be a pain as well - been feeding raw for a few months now but can never have too much help. :)

Gotta practice my cut 'n paste :D

en route!

Me too please

May I be so bold as to ask for the same, I'd be ever so grateful! ;-)
Karen

Me too please :)

bet your secretary is working overtime on this ;)

Hi Teri

Thankyou so much for that fantastic informative link, i have read it and re-read it and am now wondering what i was getting so stressed about, it all seems so simple and obvious now.

Hi mich,

You're very welcome!   You'll soon see the results to prove that making the leap is well worth it :)

Good luck, and enjoy - Teri

As I understand it without bone the dogs will seriously lack minerals, feeding meat and cereal won't do it.

If your feeding minced meat with bone in, then cooking it will actually change the bone so it won't be of nutritional benefit the way it would be if raw.

>Now, as for the bones. I asked the vet who said under no circumstances give them chicken wings? but i have read that loads of you guys do as well as other bones, do you just give them whole or are they too blitzed in a processor?<

Wings will be given whole,but,I would say, and this is my rule of thumb....it does depend how your dog eats (if new to RAW feeding)
for example: My present Husky was fed by previous owners on kibble mixed with soft foods (table scraps) so he developed a habit of hoovering up food and not masticating.
Its generally adviced in that instance that you hold the chicken wing in pliers say, so the dog cannot attempt to gulp, but bite off and chew.
My personal feeling is that the bone should be appropriate to the size of dog and so I would not give chicken wings to small/medium dogs but to large. But that is just my rationale I would never make small bones smaller. I didnt feed my present dog chicken wings for a good while until I was sure he'd got the hang of eating RMB's :)

Hello :)  I am currently on my 4th vet because I had reached a stage where it really didn't matter to me what these vets said to put me off, the results spoke for themselves and I was happy and confident to give my dog a species appropriate diet ;)  Some vets love it and some will hate it so if they are all vets and have the same qualifications who is right ;)
All I know is - through experience - that my dogs are doing EXTREMELY well on their raw diet and look amazing.
I agree with Teri.  Do not become a slave to the diet and worry uneccesarily.  Do you worry so much when it comes to feeding yourself?  Humans are more complex in their dietry requirements than dogs yet we dont seem to worry so much about feeding ourselves and our families :D  We just balance our diet over a period of time.
Mine have RMB's most days (chick carcass)  When I prepare fruit for myself I throw bits in the kids bowls then defrost their meat on top (so they are somewhat degraded,) when I go shopping or to the butcher I may pick up a bit of liver or kidney and throw in a bit of offal on a particular day, I saw a nice trout in a shop window recently and got it for the dogs!  Mine get whats in and I dont get bogged down with too much detail....If they put on weight i cut it down if they drop weight I feed a bit more - ahhhh simple :D

Ditto to what you have said about not being a slave to the diet :D I have done my own thing for nearly 7 years and my dogs are extremely healthy, look brilliant and never have upset stomachs or bad poos :D :D Don't do any weighing - I just feed a good variety of things and adjust quantities depending on the time of year, activity level and feel/look of the dog :)

Daisy

I think the reason people who are new to feeding raw get so hung up on it is due to the amount of negative responses they can get when they say they feed that particular diet. I have  fed raw for a few months and am only now beginning to chill out with it though still have to admit to weighing out things and probably will do so until our lad is a year old.

I have had so many surprised looks and negative comments that I think it is a defensive thing - you want to get it right and not get the " I told you so " scene if there is a problem.

I think I will have to start raising my eyebrows and saying reeeeeeeally when other people mention what they feed their dogs on. :)

> I think I will have to start raising my eyebrows and saying reeeeeeeally when other people mention what they feed their dogs on

LOL - for me (personally, not necessarily for others) I wouldn't feed my children on lots of processed foods with additives, so why should I give it to my dogs :D :D Each to their own - I don't lecture people on what to feed their children :D :D

Daisy

You've hit the nail on the head there Harley, that is exactly it. I think i have got myself so wound up because the first person i mentioned it to happened to be the vet and i asked her opinion and her reply was ' well i will expect to see you very soon when you have an emergency on your hands because one of your dogs has a chicken bone stuck in their throat' so as you can imagine i started wondering if i really was doing the right thing but after reading the great link that Teri sent me and reading all the other comments on here, i have decided to start on Monday, i have been to the butchers today and also found a company that delivers so it's all systems go

Thanks for your comments Huskygal , my bitch tends to really gulp her food down and that's what i was worried about with the bone issue:rolleyes:

Thanks guys, as usual you have all given great advice x

I read an article in a magazine recently where a vet stated that 'homemade raw diets will be the cause of many more dogs being brought into the vets' - Got me thinking about about all the now 'routine' procedures they do (dentals) as well as the increase in allergies to treat, not to mention colitis, obesity etc etc - ironic really :D
Sarah
PS I also love the pictures of meat and veggies plastered all over dog food bags...Why not just go straight to the source and give the good stuff in the first place ;)

>'homemade raw diets will be the cause of many more dogs being brought into the vets' <

LOL :D I think the advent of 'poor quality' commercial foods have made being a vet a good business to be in!

A vet may see one or two problems with bones,usually cooked, and that would be IMO enough to put them off the idea all together :( It's easier for vets to tell clients NOT to feed any bones/homemade then it is to go through the whole rigamarol of explaining the right way to feed a homemade or raw diet.It's easier for vets to sell the food they sell then to educate a client new to feeding how to prepare a home made diet.

>well i will expect to see you very soon when you have an emergency on your hands because one of your dogs has a chicken bone stuck in their throat>

OMG what a closeminded scaremongering attitude to have :(

Another very good and simple raw site is http://www.rawdogranch.com