Ive just got back from the vets, as Blue had his first booster :)

And am a bit irritated actually, first of all, the vet took a look at his eyes, was pulling them about and got right in his face (which he wernt too impressed about) and by doing so, made him keep blinking, then she said your going to need an operation on those eyes, look how turned in his eye lids are! WTH??

My dogs eyes are fine! She said everytime he blinks his eyelashes are scraping against his eyes! And that its like us constantly having dust in our eyes! Now surely if that was the case, i would of noticed??
First of all, if my dog was irritated by anything, I would know about it, not once has he ever shown any discomfort or irritation with his eyes! Then she started asking me about insurance!

After that, she then said that he should be on a complete food for large breeds (eukanuba) and not what his on now!

Then told me that i should have him castrated for health reasons!!

Jeeez!! Blue blobs only went for his booster!

After the stories ive heard of vets, i must admit im not too keen to obide by EVERYTHING they tell me or suggest!

If i thought there was ANYTHING wrong with my dog or he was in any discomfort or pain, id have him up that vet surgery ASAP! But his happy! And so im happy, I do tend to go with my own instinct, if i dont feel right about doing something, i wont do it and i seriously am not happy about Blue having eye surgery, for what i can see no cause for :(

I know that by having males castrated it limits the risk of problems in that area, but, i wouldnt expect Mark to go and have an op to chop his off! To me its like saying, well, because you have breasts, you could get breast cancer, so you had better go and have an op to have them taken away to cut the risk! :rolleyes:

Yes i know Blues a dog and not a human being, but his my baby and i dont want to put him through any pain/operations unnessasary! Thats just the way i feel!

Same as it makes me mad when some people in the USA have Great Danes ears cropped! They wasnt made that way and to me is totally pointless and cruel to do that to them!

Sorry for going on, just a bit peed off! :( Thought id come and tell you lot!

What the vet is talking about is Entropion. Get another vet to give you a second opinion, as if there is any chance of entropion, then yes, an op will be probably be needed. That doesn't involve the eyes, but the eyelids. :)

The thing is though, she said his eyes would have always been like it, but no other vet or my breeder has ever commented on his eyes

Perhaps they did not look as closely :)  If you are not happy with their diagnosis you should seek a second opinion.  If you are going specifically to have the eyes looked at the vet will be more thorough about it.

Maybe i should then, but just make sure i dont get the same one! lol

I took my pup to the vet because he was scratching at his eyes alot. I was told that he had entropian which was news to me. I then had his eyes tested for ppm which is a problem in our breed so I got him to check the entropian, which guess what he didn't have. What he did have was conjuctivitis due to his pollen allergies. I would get him checked by an ornotholigist if I was you. When my vet said that he had it she said that they wouldn't do the op until his head had finished growing because it can correct itself though it would depend how much it was annoying him if at all.

Jenny

Sorry Jenny but i couldn't help rolling around laughing helplessly I think you my have meant an opthalmologist not a ornothologist :D :D :D

oops yes, never was very good at spelling

That cracked me up too...can you imagine a very wise owl looking in his eyes???LOL Sorry, couldn't resist

ROFL!

Two things.  Firstly if it was entropion the chances are that the fur around the eye would be wet all/most of the time, because the eye would be irritated and the eye would then water constantly.  Secondly, sometimes with puppies there are very very fine hairs on the eyelid which eventually go away. Don't know how old you boy is but seems this Vet is being a bit extreme. I see the old castration issue reared its head again. I usually find this is said by newly qualified/new to the practice Vets to boost sales/treatments etc.  All the experienced Vets at my Practice never bring up this issue. In fact, my Vet has been known to talk people out of castration and he is the Senior Partner!!

Wow, some interesting stuff there! So if he did have this entropion, would he be at his eye all the time? When he was tiny and i had only had him home a couple of weeks (some of you might remember) he had an allergic reaction and his eye had swollen up and was like an egg, i had to rush him to the emergency vets at half 3 in the morning LOL The vet just gave him a 'piriton' type shot and that did the trick! This happened last year, Blues a year old now (not fully grown)

A couple of months ago Blue was out in the garden sniffing round plants and i brought him in and made him stay in as one of his eyes was a bit weepy, but i bathed it in cool boiled water and he was fine after that! Maybe a pollen reaction??

I would think he would be at them most of the time. It could well be a pollen reaction because when my youngster has been sniffing the long grass he sometimes gives them a rub with his paws and also has a sneezing fit! I would at least speak to one of the other vets for a 2nd opinion.

Jenny

Yeah, as his NEVER at his eyes and to me they look absolutely fine!

Nobody on a web site could possibly say whether he has or he hasn't got a problem or what exactly it might be, particularly without actually seeing the dog, only a vet can do this.  If you have doubts about the first vet's diagnosis see another but you should not simply ignore it. 

I definately dont intend to ignore it!

:)

Ide personally get a second opinion, but surley if he did have this wrong with him it would of presented much earlyer,fingers croseed it aint :) .As for the castration its totally personal preference but its not somthing ide do unless it was for health reasons or unless i had an intact bitch in the house.

Yeah I was like you too, I couldn't see any turning in of my dogs eyelids.

Jenny

We got a year old toy poodle seven years ago, and it was very obvious that something was troubling her eyes  - they were always watering and she rubbed them. The vet found a couple of ingrowing lashes, and also said she had slight entropion. He said to leave it though as she was not fully developed and still had fairly small eyes. Sure enough, as her face fully developed along with her eyes, the problem disappeared.

Ive just read up on the problem in my 'handy Great Dane book' :D Theres a pic of a Dane with this and Blues eyes look absolutely nothing like this at all!

Doesnt say nothing about surgery though Just that it can be treated by ointments and antibiotics?

Entropion can't be treated by antibiotic ointments. All they do is treat the infection that happens because the lashes are chronically irritating the eye. The only way of fixing entropion is by surgery to tighten the muscles in the lower eyelid so that it is pulled away from the eyeball. It is a very simple procedure often done on people as well as dogs and it works very well. There is another condition that is sometimes mixed up with entropion. It is called distichiasis, and in it the eyelid is in the proper position, but there are lashes which grow inwards from the meibomian glands. The effect is the same, but because the eyelid is in the proper position it is harder to spot. Treatment is by cryotherapy, electrolysis or surgery.

I'd agree with the others - it doesn't sound as if Blue has a problem with his eyes, but no one can diagnose over the www and now that the possibility has been raised, I'd ask for a second opinion.

Maybe i should then, but just make sure i dont get the same one! lol

With this statement I am reading you will go to the same vet surgery but just a different person..... don't do that!  Go to a different practice altogether for a second opinion, it is easy to do, just call another vet for an appointment, they will inform your vet, but they will not be offended it is common practise, if embarassed just say your dogs breeder wanted a second opinion, easy enough said.  Only then can you see if it is just a way to earn money, or a real concern.

Being good friends with a vet (not mine I might add) she has told me a lot of practises will do unnecessary treatments so it does go on.

Agree with others, don't just blank the information get the second opinion!

Its just, where i live, the 2nd nearest practice is 17 miles away and its run by the same group, they also have the same vets there too, as when i had to go there when Blue was tiny and had the eye reaction, the vet there has been at the one near me aswell, im not sure where/if there is another nearby (not that im aware of) but i will check! Thanks :)

I would want to see a BVA panel ophthalmologist.

A list of these is on the BVA website.  Click on Canine health schemes, eyes and there is a PDF document listing the eye specialists.

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/chs/eye_scheme.asp

Thanks for that :) My nearest one would be in Stamford! 66 miles away! lol

I emailed my breeder last night and am waiting for her to get back to me, just want to know her thoughts :)

Aw bless - not having a good day are you :(

Agree with the others though that it could be entropian - certainly I'd see another vet and ask for a second opinion.
As for the other pearls of wisdom re diet change and castration it seems to be par for the course with some vets - guess you were just unlucky to cop for it all at the same time!

Chin up kiddo - you're amongst friends :) :) :)

Thanks Teri :)

LOL I know, we only went for 1 little thing and got bombarded with that lot, she did have a young girl in there with her (on work experience i think) so maybe she might have been showing off a bit lol :rolleyes:

Could've been worse - she could have diagnosed him with an ovarian cyst and mastitis

LOL :D

love the way you were asked if you were insured :D :D I wonder, do they sell Eukanuba? :rolleyes: Take no notice, feed as you have been, he's doing well so why change? Apart from the financial aspect if they do sell Eukanuba and thought there was an off chance you would buy it from there, what is the vet thinking of recomending a change of diet to a dog that is healthy and well, and growing? AB's for an upset tummy next..:rolleyes:.......

I would get the senior vet to check the eyes though, just in case, which I know you will :D :D

Have to reply dead quick - without reading the thread!

The vet said EXACTLY the same to me about Willis and I told them to b*****r off in no uncertain terms. Nuff said!

There is/was NOTHING wrong with Willis eyes and NOR did he need castrating - and nor has he been.

They just don't have a clue.

Edit to say - I checked with a breeder friend who said that the vet was getting misled by the redness of Wills eyes. Danes eyes are naturally deepset. But with no irritation, weepoing or soreness I have NO idea why the hell they thought he had entropian!

Thats what i said to her Chloe, about his eyes being naturally deepset and red but she didnt listen! :rolleyes:

When Blues a bit sleepy, his eyes are REALLY red and droopy, i imagine Willis is exactly the same :) And speaking of which, i imagine St Bernards are even more cherry eyed! lol

If you are at all worried - take a pic and send it to your breeder ;)

Thanks, will do that, see what she has to say :)

My staffy pup had to have an op to correct entropion, the only signs of irritation he showed was blinking quite alot, there was no tearing at his eyes or anthing. But when looking up close to his eyes you could see that the bottom lids were rolled inwards, he was only 4 months old and so he had the lids temporarily  tacked down and had the operation at 6.5 months, it was a success and his eyes are fine now.  I too would get a second opinion from an ophtamologist.

Slightly going off topic a bit, but when i got my reminder card saying Blue was due for his booster and annual health check, i didnt think a health check ment just looking in his eyes and listening to his heart? She didnt look in his ears and didnt even touch his mouth and yet i thought they were part of a health check?

Right, my breeder just got back to me and she said,

When they wake up they will have sore eyes, often with pus or lots of yellow mucus around the eye. When the eye is open it will weep and it will look they are literally crying. Often Blue Danes do get slight entroprian as they grow and it sorts itself out. If he shows no signs of discomfort and there is no weeping or pus I would leave it alone. Personally I have never seen a Dane with entropian who doesn't get the weeping etc. I would leave his eyes alone and just monitor them, if you feel he is
getting sore or you see pus or weeping I would take him to the vet.

:)

There you go then :)

There was an awful story on here a year or so back - of a lady with a blue dane who was operated on and operated on and in the end he was put down because his eyes were SO bad. Awful - he was only a pup :(

I don't think there is any point going on and on about this :) but it is hard to imagine that an opthalmic vet would not be aware of breed peculiarities.  As a vet has indicated concern I really think, rather that try to decide over the internet or via macroscopic photographs whether this case is identical to any others we have known, that someone with the appropriate qualifications and equipment have a look at it.

I wonder just how many sets of Great Dane eyes the average vet sees. I know that in my large practise there is only ONE other Great Dane.

I've taken on board what you are saying about breed peculiarities that is why I am suggesting, in this instance ;), a more broadly experienced opthalmic vet would be appropriate.

But if the owner has spotted no problems, and not taken the dog to the vets for this reason - why bother going to a opthalmic vet?

Out of all the vets Willis has seen - only ONE thought there was a problem with his eye - the same one that suggested castration. No-one else has ever raised it as a problem - not even when he was hip scored etc.

I don't think the reason for attending the vet really matters, many a thing has been spotted during a consultation for something completely different.
As I say I don't think other case histories can be applied to other dogs.  The only fact we have here is a vet has spotted a problem, like you say another vet may dismiss it but without seeing that other vet, how can you say. 
I think the castration thing is a bit of a red herring.  It is a subjective topic after all, just because the vet shares a different view to perhaps our own because they are choosing to give different emphasis to the rather low risks on both sides of the arguement is not really any reflection on their opthalmic diagnostic abilities one way or another is it? :)

Well, I suggest we agree to disagree then :D

and Willis says he is not coming to your house incase you book him in for an eyelift :D

That's nothing, if he shows up round here he's in for a "Lea" and not just the eyebrows! :D

LOL!!!

I thought it was very risky for Danes to be subjected to unnecessary operations? What is this vet thinking of?

well, there is that.

it was worrying enough when Willis was hip scored. they tried to do it under a heavy sedation to avoid the anaesthetic - didn't work, and he had to be put out in the end - but not before he was stressed out to hell. He wouldn't even get up off the floor until I arrived to pick him up - they were very worried about him - and so was I. He's not had so much as a booster since and thats the way its staying! :D

The vet could have put some yellow dye in the eye to see if there was any corneal ulceration due to in growing lashes at least that would have confirmed the problem or not.

I have a dachsie pup with some tiny lashes [I knew before I got her] and a weepy eye,no pus,just tears on one side,when I took her to see the vet to be Micro chipped we discussed the problem and she examined the eye and put in the drops,no damage seen,I wasn't expecting any,her head is still catching up with the rest of her body so I am hoping that the problem will correct itself. The tears and the staining has got much less over the 5 weeks since I got her,quite often now she is dry around the eye.

Rhona