okay so yesterday we had a beautiful fawn bitch come to be mated,definitely in standing heat,had the test to see if she was ovulating etc,but,the dog is very,uuumm snappy,the owners do not want her held,nor muzzled,as its their baby,and shes soooo delicate,their words,definitely not mine(mastiff haha)my boy is very keen,and is a seasoned stud,but not being able to take her in hand and have control over her is proving to be a mega problem,they drove for four hours to get to us yesterday,arrived at four in afternoon,and did not leave until 10.30 that evening,so,they are wanting to come down again this afternoon,but they wasted our day yesterday,now I truly do not mean that nasty,but our dog got himself quite upset,and of course never ate,and has not eaten his brekkie this morning,do we waste another day,or tell them not to come unless they are willing to a)leave it to us and go sit in car. or b)take a firmer position with her,so come on you pearls of wisdon HEEEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP
Wendy

If they have never been at a mating perhaps a discussion about what is normal mating behaviour and protocol is appropriate, as quite frankly they are going to get upset at the sight of the mating anyway.  bitches often struggle during the tie and could hurt themselves and the dog, so being held is for both their safety.

cor blimey Brainless that was quick,they had booked use of my boy last year,and I took them through everything,what could happen/go wrong the works,they just did not take any of it in,I told them she may squeal when the dog penetrates/ties with her,and they were very shocked,and every time she flew like a manic pirhana at my boy,they were patting and telling her it was okay,very very nice people,but oh dear,I have said I would prefer to muzzle her,and mebbe have her stand across bale of straw for support,but apparantly I am evil and want to have their young lady raped,I have said I want her muzzled this time,and we shall see how that goes,but its not looking too promising,sigh
Wendy

I wouldn't risk a stud dog being bitten by a snappy bitch.  Is she snappy because she's a maiden bitch or is her temperament unsound?  I have never had a bitch mated who I have not held both to give her confidence and for the sake of the stud dog.  Some bitches and their owners are just not suitable for mating! ;)

in my opinion its only because she is maiden,but the owners, are not helping matters,the man actually got on the floor and straddled the bitch yesterday,hugging and crying and telling her how sorry he was to put her through this,but like you I am certainly not willing to have my boy bitten,mind you I am very pleased with his behaviour,as each time she gave him daggers he turned his head ever so slightly so as he was not looking directly at her,he did get to mount her several times,but then owners had to get involved and over exaggerated as to what a good girl she is,hahaha,so of course she then showed off and gave my boy a telling off,
Wendy

I would doubt their ability to whelp the bitch with that sort of attitude.  A few years ago a bitch that I bred died in whelp because the owners didn't have any experience or know the danger signs to look for which is why I don't encourage pet owners to have a litter and endorse all of my puppies to discourage it.  I suspect that you will be doing this bitch a BIG favour if she's not mated!;)
Imagine having a baby with only your best friend to help instead of an experienced midwife???  Doesn't bear thinking about, does it? :D

funnily enough,these people live very close to a well known breeder of Mastiffs,who is more than willing to help them at this time,which they have agreed to,said breeder has already arranged to move into their home for one week to help out,as I too, was worried about this,they do show her,and are really willing to learn,they are just over the top,with their ideas of babying her,but I totally understand where you are coming from on this,they have just phoned again,and I have told them,that I am willing to try again,but will certainly not be doing this on their terms,she must be muzzled and on a lead,I have also said if she totally panics they are to leave,unless they are willing to be firmer with her.
thank you for your reply
Wendy

as the stud dog owner you need to explain the importance of correct handling & tell them to stay away if neccessary!!! I had someone bring a bitch once....someone quite sensible & I knew them but once bitch was tied they burst into tears & started sobbing all over her & it was all quite ridiculous.....it much easier if owner not there if they are going to be silly & not hold the bitch correctly.

Hello Sam,thanks for reply,I have a feeling the man will be the same,and whilst I wil allow them to stay for first ,um say half an hour,I will be telling them to maybe go away and we will call them when the deed is done,as she seems to be quite a sensible girl when "daddy was in the loo"
Wendy

As an owner of only bitches, I would not expect any stud dog owners to waste six and a half hours with me if I wasn't prepared to co-operate with their requests.  If as they say they are sorry to the bitch to put her through it, then don't! They would probably be better off staying away from breeding all together.  That said, I wouldn't expect to see a rape, but we all know that you sometimes have to be firm with the bitch, one of mine was 'yapping' at the dog to leave her alone, but there was a difference between that and snapping at the dog. In the end she succumb quietly when she was quite in the mood.

Hello Allison,well when I say snapping, not once did she actually make contact with him,just teeth clashing together sounds,which sounded worst than it actually was,as if she had, actually made contact with him,I would have definitely told them to muzzle or leave right away,it was really all show,and mainly if our male went any where near her "daddy",and of course my male was not actually trying to mate her for the full six hours,we put him away for a kip,after the first hour,and discussed tactics,but then man threw himself across the bitch,very over dramatic,but very entertaining,as at one point my male took quite a shine to him,hahahahha I must ad really its not actually their dog thats being that naughty,just normal,oo chase me, stuff,but we have told them two hours tops,and mated or not they are going home,

A friend of mine with stud dogs, tells the owner to go spend their time in their car if they behave like that.

this is my plan,am positive we will get a better result if the man,is not giving a sharp intake of breath and swooning each time dogs dinky appears
teehee
Wendy

Taken from "Dalmatians" by Catherine Gore (first published 1962)

"Do not be surprised if your bitch, no doubt a maiden, resists the dog's advances to begin with, however ready in fact she may be to be mated ..... it is a mistake to allow the dog and bitch to play about loose for too long. The bitch, if she is one of the 'hard to get' brigade will wear the dog out too much with unnecessary rushings about .... the most sweet-tempered bitch can turn into a termagent at these times, so don't be surprised if your bitch makes a shocking exhibition of herself .....

"....It is far better for the bitch to be firmly held and after a short introduction to the dog, for him to be allowed to mate her in the shortest time possible. Tender-hearted owners with love-matches in mind need not waste their sympathy on their 'playing-it-coy' bitch ... the most aggressively resistant bitch will, once mated, assume a smug air of satisfaction, even while still tied to the dog and, once parted from him will fawn on him wagging her tail ....

"....Some stud owners prefer to mate visiting bitches with only the assistance of their own staff. Then once the tie is effected they will ask the bitch's owner to come and see that his bitch is indeed mated to the selected dog."

In your position I'd do the latter - have experienced people dealing with the mating and not allow the owners to wind their bitch up.

oooo Jeangenie,that was very kind of you to type all of that out,I think before they even get out of the car I will print this off and let them have a five minute read and ponder,as this is really my preferred route to be honest,and yes I will allow them to come in a observe quietly once tie has been achieved,
thank you once again,
well I suppose I had better go and run round making everything looking less doggy here,hahahha
they will be arriving in one hour,and I will definitely come back on and tell you all what happened,if anything
Wendy

No problem Wendy! I certianly think the man had better be out of the way - I've known even sensible men blanch a little when the dog turns - 'your' chap might faint clean away!

AHHH bless!  maybe he's feeling a little erm....inadequate? :D :D :D :D

Have to say, you must have the patience of a saint :rolleyes: I can't imagine dealing calmly with such sillyness I'm afraid I'd have had a really hard time keeping a stright face :rolleyes:

well Dill,I must say my hubby has not been much help,as soon as the man,started bawling and telling dog how much he loved her and how sorry he was,that was the end of my hubby,who had to leave for a few moments,rotten swine that he is,I actually blushed for him,and have not done that in many a year hahahaha
Wendy

What happened? Having the thread through to the end I was keen to see what the outcome was,I found it a very entertaining story and I too would have had a problem keeping a straight face and not telling the chap to grow up and pull himself together.

Rhona

Sorry I have not been on here sooner,but my computer had a magic moment and would not allow me to do anything and kept locking,well,we had a few tears,but after hubby went out to the car when they arrived,and told them in no uncertain terms that they will not be using our dog,unless they have her under full control,and did exactly as told,and of course be a bit firmer with the bitch,
so they came in very sheepishly,did not want to speak or look us in the eyes,held their dog on collar and lead,told her "NO" when she had a tantrum,and our boy was on, in and tied within five minutes,the whole time the mans bottom lip was all aquiver hahahahah,and must admit it was very difficult not to laugh,as he kept giving sharp intakes of breath,the bitch was an absolute angel,and did not play up once,stood like a little trooper,they even came back for a second mating the next day using same process,which also went well
Wendy

I helped a male friend whelp his first litter.  He is a rugby player, and not a sentimental man, but when he took his bitch to the stud he left her with the stud owner as he too felt as if he was taking his daughter to be de-flowered.

At least he knew he would be in the way though.  He was good at the whelping, managed to keep him calm.

So, how did it go Wendy????  Did they come back??

I was going to say - you should ask them:  Do they want puppies?  How much do they want puppies?  Because if they muck around like this any longer, they won't get them.  Time is running out. 

I'd really hammer that home!!!

I just wonder what they will be like when she gives birth.......:(.......they may have an experienced breder present, but as soon as bitch starts digging, and moves into second stage labour, I hope he dosent start hugging and crying all over her. just wondered...do they have any children of their own?

I too was wondering that, some bitches can really cry during whelping and appear very distressed and normally like to be left to have their own space - will they actually be able to part with the pups too as they will become new babies to coo over LOL!

Good luck!

Maybe when they have 8 (say) 8 week old puppies pooing and peeing and running and chewing/biting all over the place they might :D:D:P

I must say,once they had taken control over her,she behaved like a dream,she did not cry out once,nor did she struggle,and was one of the easiest girls we have ever had here to mate,which was kind of strange especially after all the drama day before
Wendy

well hopefully he will have learnt his lesson,the lady was definitely better than the man,and yes they have children,she did seem more practical,and kept telling him to not be so silly,
Wendy

There you go, takes us ladies to be practical :D Pleased it went well :D

hahahha thanks calmstorm for all of your excellent advice
Wendy

well onetwothree,hopefully you will have read my above post and it went like a dream,albeit a wee bit sulky,teehee
Wendy

Thanks for the update.

A few of us could not access CD yesterday for some reason.

Rhona

LOL

Glad it went well this time :)

I've always maintained that men are really the weaker sex ;) :p :D

If I were his wife I'd send him on holiday when the bitch is due to whelp ;) :D

I have found this thread very funny. 

It also points out how influenced dogs are by their owners, so that natural behaviours become suppressed or muted.

This was brought strongly to mind when one of the unsocialised pack living rescue fosters were in season.  When she was ready for mating the signs were exaggeratedly obvious, even though ti may have only been her second season.

Now my own bitches will mount etc, but it is all a bit haphazard and I have never really been able to gauge their receptiveness without a male present, and even then they haven't been very clear cut in their behaviour.

This girl on the other hand stood there with rear raised tail flung right over with her rear in the face of any of them that would pay attention, and would have been a doddle to mate.

My pet ladies would have been a bit missish, or even wanting to take the masculine role.

There was a lovely champion male in or breed many years ago who had owners that had spoilt him rotten.  He never did manage t mate a bitch, because as soon as he went to try he would look to his owners and get off, as obviously he had been told off for mounting at some point.  Even with his owners out of sight he couldn't bring himself to do it.

A friend with a highly trained Obedience GSD had to leave the premises before his dog would perform.

This is why matings often have to be rather artificial and hands on than one might romantically wish.

I have at the moment a romantically challenged young male,well actually he has never been near an in-season bitch,but my girls have all come into season,this past week,and um well he's under the impression he already has a girlfriend and is being very loving and faithful to her,cough,its our very old Kirby Hoover,he nuzzles her bag,flirts,does the stompy feet Billy Elliot dance,high pitched whining the works ,everything you would expect him to do with correct species,but am really curious as to how this would work if ever(once all relevant health tests etc)would I have to tie used hoover bags to young ladies,
Wendy

Wendy, I feel the time has now come to tell you that you should be on stage, you have made me laugh sooooooo much.

Lynn

maybe we should start a fun thread,whereby we all tell of our funny breeding experiences.as am sure all you excellent breeders out there,will have great stories to tell
Wendy

ooh that would be fun. I have enjoyed hearing a bout the experience that you have had.
Very funny but glad it worked out in the end

lol reading this has made me giggle :d :d :d

Excellent story - can't wait for the whelping sequel! :-D