Ok. how do you train competitive heel work. both my dogs will do it with a treat but they are no where near close enough to my legs so it just looks messy. they usually walk along at an angle which particulaly shows when they halt into the sit. i have a feeling that pesto won't come near cos she is a small dog and might be scared of being stepped on.

Also pesto will fetch but i can not get her to sit with it in her mouth. she will bring it then when i say sit she drops it and then sits. some help would be good but don't worry if you dont' want to.

One other thing i have never been able to get a dog that will give a good watch me. they will watch a hand but not me.

i would like to get pesto into competing some obeidience so do you think a class would be good but it needs to be for competitive obeidience not just pet training if they do them. any ideas of  any in london?

sorry about this
Anna

Do you clicker train Anna?

I would say if you want to do Obedience it would be ever so helpful :)

Lindsay
x

Anna, to start in competitive obedience you reallly need to join a club or go to a private trainer who holds classes specifically for this.  Have a look at http://www.obedienceuk.com, they list a lot of the classes held around the country.  You could always join and ask on the message board if there is anyone near you who teaches competitive obedience.

The watch will come if you start off correctly.  But in the meantime, try giving the treat by dropping it from your mouth, rather then hand feeding. (Make sure it is a nice treat )

With the retreive you are probably asking too much too soon.  Break it down into separate exercises.  The hold in a stationary sit being the most important. Then assuming you have a present type recall, just stand a small step away and call her into you.  Until you have built this up to a distance, don't send her to fetch it.

As Lyndsay has said a clicker would help enormously with the retreive and watch, but you need to know how to use it correctly before you start.

yes both are fully tuned into the clicker.

In that case I would say you are not using the clicker correctly or charging her on it sufficiently before you start.  A competitive class would be the best way to go.

I have actually been told by a top trainer that i use the clicker with both dogs the best she has seen.
I was just asking actually how to start the behaviour. They both walk to heel i just can't get it closer and looking at me.
Sorry if i am no good
sorry

You do need someone to help to see exactly how your dogs are walking in heelwork then you can work on getting them walking straight if they aren't doing so already(It's hard to judge yourself believe me) It could be you are throwing them off straight by a body movement etc that you don't realise you are making

Worth joining a competitive club/class/training group If you are interested in starting competitive obedience visit the Obedience UK site & joining the Newbies Yahoo Group(the title says it all it's for new people to obedience ;) )& also looking through the club/training classes

I have looked on the website but their arn't any competitive obeidience clubs near me.
I thought it probably was me cos when I watch them I might go off sideways.
Sorry
I will have a look at the group

If you join the group you will probably be able to find a class/trainer etc fairly near to you ;)

When I judge it's not the closest of the heelwork that is important but whether the dog is walking straight & in a natural manner as long as the dog is reasonably close & consistent

I am not saying you are no good Anna.

What I am trying to say is if the clicker and training are being done correctly she shouldn't be dropping the retreive article at your feet before you click and reward her.

Also, the warm up exercise (charging her to the clicker), would have her looking at you and nowhere else before you click.

As she is not performing either of the above I would suggest the clicker is not being used correctly for competition obedience.

Before close heelwork can be acheived with her watching you, the basics have to be put in place first, This is before you start any walking with the dog to heel.  That is why I suggested you find a trainer or club who can teach you this.

Clicker training for fun is very different to training for competion. As you have found out, pet obedience training is different to what is required for competition.

If you are serious about competition obedience, accept you may not have got it right so far and look for someone with the experience to show you where to start.  

I apologise if I offended. 

I have no problem with the fact that I know that I need help as I have never done it before.

I will start again from the beginning doing it for competetive obedience. thankyou

Unfortunately when I started competetive obeidience training I didn't have a good trainer who just tried to use positive reinforcement but also used harsh methods so I left and got rather put off by it. But since ready this site i have got excited by it again.

sorry

I'm far from expert on competitive obedience but do heelwork for working trials training, also do retrieve etc so I'll try to pass on a few tips.

OK well, what you could try is using a target stick. I've not actually done it this way myself but would do if I was to do it again as I've seen it demonstrated. I used to get my dog to target my hand rather than a stick.

First teach the dog to touch and follow the target stick and get that behaviour fluent :)

What you then do is, use the target stick and put some tape on the end of it for the dog to touch, parcel tape or that silver stuff will do. A couple of inches square so easily visible.

Have the dog touch the stick and have the end of the stick in the correct position, so the dog's nose is where it needs to be. Click and treat, (the stick is placed so the dog is in the best heelwork position). Gradually move, click and treat, click and treat, remember the click ends the behaviour so that you can throw the treat ... then the dog will hpoefully run back to touch the target stick and on you go. Click and treat lots.

Over time, make the target stick smaller and eventually you will end up with just the tape, which is stuck onto your thigh and which the dogs nose is touching...make the tape smaller over time ... in the end after adding the cue word, you have no tape but the dog understands and is moving well and motivated.

Is that any good?

Usual things apply such as training in short 5 minute sessions, generalising, etc.

It may be that someone can explain it better than me but I've tried! :D

As for retrieve, there are lots of ways to train this, I actually taught a play retrieve initially, just to give the idea, and taught what "hold" meant, made it hugely rewarding, then after this was understood asked my dog to hold whilst sitting. If the dog does stand up, simply withhold the treat and ask them to try again, click quickly if they work it out and jackpot!!

Remember with retrieve training with clicker, you may be doing the opposite of what you have been previously perhaps, as once you click thedog may drop the dumbbell, it's fine and in fact expected!! Withholding the click for a few split seconds is what builds up the time. If you don't understand backchaining, find out about that as it's a great way of doing things to give the dog confidence.

If you ever have a problem with mouthing, go back to basics with the hold or do what i did, which is to give the dog the dumbbell and just click and treat for holding without mouthing; if the dog mouths a lot, wait until there is  a small gap in the mouthing and click and treat and train that way for no mouthing. My girl doesn't mouth articles or the dumbbell, even though sometime I chuck the dumbbell for her to play with! (norty me!! :P ).

I'd suggest going onto www.clickersolutions.com an excellent clicker site, also see Karen Pryor's Clicker TRaining for Dogs as it shows some good examples of teaching with target stick also teaching a whippet to do a play retrieve. Lastly, how about getting some good videos, I believe Mary Ray's are good although I've not seen them, I'm not sure when she started using the clicker but hopefully she should demonstrate some of it on her videos...

Lastly keep your ear to the ground and try to go to the odd special training workshop with clicker trainers, I'd recommend Anne Bussey very highly. A day with someone like this is worth months of struggling on your own.

Lindsay
x

Just wanted to add, as well, you may want to invest in "Clicker Training for Obedience" by Morgan Spector. This is a big book that goes into everything - he takes for example several pages to explain how to train the retrieve and also how to train front-with-dumbbell which is, as he says, different for the dog to front-without-dumbbell.

The only drawback is that the book is based on American Obedience but I've found it so useful over the years and am alwasy dipping into it.

I'd say you'd need to be quite "into" clicker training and some of the terminology to enjoy it, but if you, are you will be well away ;)

Lindsay
x

Have you tried 'target training'? 

This is particularly useful with small dogs when you can't reach them other than by leaning over which looks just as messy as them not being close enough.

I have used a dressage crop or small garden canes.  Rub the end of the stick with cheese or other smelly food.  Have a reward in your hand and hold stick infront of dog.  As soon as dog touches the stick with its nose - praise and reward or C&T.

Once the dog is reliably touching the stick start to hold it down the length of your leg and C/T or P&R for touching it.  Progress to walking holding the stick close to your leg and maybe introduce a new word for the action of them walking in close.  If you use Heel now use Close or vice versa and away you go.

Once the habit is established with the new 'cue' word you can start omitting the use of the stick.