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By AGIOSGSDS
![[gb]](/images/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
Date 10.08.02 21:19 UTC
I would just like to say that there is only one correct type of GSD and that is a dog which is bred from German lines ! COUNTRY OF ORIGIN . Who I might add have excellent working capabilities.
In the UK the German bred dogs are superb, I agree a few years ago they were extreme but not any more.
Mybe those who are making these comments should go to a German show in the Uk and see for themselves, maybe then they would not be so quick to voice their opinion on subjects they obviously are not up to date on.
By aoife
Date 10.08.02 21:41 UTC
hi agiosgsds
perhaps you would reply to the poster that you want to make comments about as not sure who you want to direct this at. g.s.d breeders, owners, handlers etc all have there own feelings on the breed and type they like that goes in all breeds. that is why the breed is so split at times, i think it's great when you get a show that represents and brings the two sides together, the pictures looked great in last weeks our dogs from the june show. i liked theworthy winner as much as i like lindellas good as gold. the bottom line here is that we produce healthy sound g.s.d.s as near to the breed standard as you can get and we all have our own interpretations on that. a g.s.d is a g.s.d wether it is bred in germany,england, italy ,holland wereever etc, regards tina p.s have had g.s.d.s for nearly 22years the good the bad and the ugly.
They all come from Germany originally, and have changed as much there as here since the early days of the breed.
By John
Date 10.08.02 22:36 UTC
This is very true Brainless. Over the years most breeds have changed in most countries. Current fashions and fads, some for the better, some for the worst. At the end of the day it is in the individuals interpretation of the breed standard and one persons interpretation can be quite different to another’s just as one judges interpretation can be quite different to another’s and who’s to say which is right?
John
By WSHLover
Date 11.08.02 11:13 UTC
I can trace the lines of mine back to his great grandparents... But no further... I know he has a lot of Dreamcoats in him...
By aoife
Date 11.08.02 23:31 UTC
hi john, very well put thanks regards tina
By Kash
Date 11.08.02 11:19 UTC
Couldn't agree more Agiosgsds:) Owning a German type dog (Ulk v Arlett, Rikkor v Badboll in her pedigree to name a few) myself I believe these are most capable of doing the job they were originally bred for;) And my bitch certainly isn't exaggerated, roach back or anything else, she is just a very good example of a germanic GSD:) Aoife like you said each to their own opinions since this completely contradicts everything you said about Germanic dogs in the other thread, which you believed weren't capable of doing the job they were bred for- how could this be true when they originate from there:rolleyes: For quite a while many enthusiasts on this board have got a long fine without making comments re type etc, we all just respect one anothers opinions and differences without having to sound derogatory towards the other opinion. And after speaking to Shadow on a number of occasions she most certainly isn't a puppy farmer and this isn't her embarking on a money making venture.
Stacey x x x
By dizzy
Date 11.08.02 12:23 UTC
while the pictures in the dogpress of the gsd show had some fabulous dogs pictured, there was still a few that looked like a bannana , sorry but what must there skeletal make up be to be shaped that way, i too prefer a balanced dog, not your overlong short on the leg or the roach, humped up ones,
i have to say in the english types defence though that when showing in the next ring to them at championship shows they to there credit manage to show without the double handling-screaming-whistle blowing-name calling-hiding behind others - running around with water bowls etc, i have seen all of this going on ,and it appears to go hand in hand with the germanic type of dog at there shows, -------you nearly need to use crash helmets if your unlucky enough to be in the next ring to them :(
By FRESKA999
Date 11.08.02 12:24 UTC
Hi Stacey
I saw your reply to AGIOS and read the reply from AOIFE, who I think has forgotten what he/she wrote with regard to the German line GSD and their working capabilities being in gsds for 22 years I'd have thought would know better.I have German lines and would put them up against any working dog in any situation.
However I do believe that whatever country a dog is bred in it should not take on a different type differing from the country of origin just to suit someones tastes, this is why breeds get split.If differing types come through then the breeders are at fault ! In GDS the Germans set the type....if dogs in this country do not fit this type then they should not be allowed to be called GSDS.
If breeders wish to alter the appearance of these dogs they should apply to be known as a different breed, and let the gsds be.
By Kash
Date 11.08.02 13:15 UTC
What affix do your dog/s have?:)
Stacey x x x
Seems to be what the dutch have done, as when there in their rather limited Discover Dogs section at the World Show in July, they had Dutch white Shepherds, which were white long coats. The ones I saw out and about and at the show were white and not biscuit coloured, leggy and staight backed, and of medium substance.
By LISA68
Date 11.08.02 18:06 UTC
I attended my first general champ show for a number of years and was quite shocked and dismayed at the GSDs on display. Temperament was very poor in alot of the dogs and movement on the whole appalling. There was no way these dogs could have done the job they were originally bred for.
I also hate to see dogs winning with 'banana' backs and must admit to being less than keen one some of the recent ones who have appeared in the dog press but take a look at the new champion Ardenburg Putz -he is a super dog.
I know double handling is not allowed in the rulebook and must be a nuisance to those in other breeds near the rings but I would much rather see them handled this way than strung up with chains behind their ears and held so tight on the move that their front feet cannot touch the floor!
I personally think that the best thing for the breed would be to split it completely into the two different types - the Germanic GSD and the English Alsatian.
Lisa
xx
By FRESKA999
Date 11.08.02 22:09 UTC
Hi Lisa
I agree...lets have the split, but then again, if people breed to a different type to suit their own taste and don't follow the country of origin type then we could end up with loads of different breeds.So is a split really the answer??
But at least it would give us German lot a few more CC's.
Double handling at our shows...yes against KC rules and yes it is a problem at general shows for the breeds next to us.But at breed shows why not allow it,it's great fun ,the dogs show themselves off at their best, standing proud looking for their mum or dad and it keeps us all fit.I have to say that when other breeds are shown next to us and the handlers are throwing pieces of liver etc around it can be pretty off putting for us to, so it's not one sided...but throwing liver about seems to be acceptable.
As for the bannana backs, a few years ago maybe but not now, and in our defense we have done alot to right the breed in that way.But what about the other side ??? are they trying to rectify short legs, over angulated back ends,length of body,weight of body....not all of them are like this and I have seen some nice dogs that move well with their ears erect, but others are a long way from correct.
By aoife
Date 11.08.02 23:47 UTC
hi freska999,
"standing proud looking for there mum and dad"", sorry i think you have little understanding or love of the breed, looking proud thats not proud ,thats stress at not being able to be close to you to guard and protect you, get astandard poodle if you want proud,
By FRESKA999
Date 12.08.02 12:23 UTC
To Aoife
Stressed dogs don't wag their tails !!!! Did you see the vice Sieger last year Timo ??? he showed himself off and everytime he got close to his owners he barked and wagged his tail just to say hi to them, definitely not stressed.You talk absolute rubbish !!!!
I understand the GSD you obviously don't, if you train them to show as a game that's what it is.
So you think a GSD in the ring with its ears flat to it's head is a happy dog...no I don't think so.
My dogs are not stressed and if I thought they were I wouldn't show them,it's a hobby and they are always pets first and foremost !
As for a poodle they're very intelligent , good working abilities...another breed you know nothing about.
You should get a cat !!!
Well I think you will find that most people do not find throwing of bait, squeeky toys, etc to be aceptable in the ring. If bait is used in fre standing breeds, then it goes from the hand to the dog. I would be quite happy for those throwing food in the ring to be given a talking to by the Steward, as should any double handling!
Having a scenting breed, it is one of my pet peeves.
By aoife
Date 11.08.02 22:52 UTC
hi liza69,
agree that dog was rather nice, tina
By sam
Date 12.08.02 06:00 UTC
Having skimmed through these posts, I get the feeling that the GSD people must be about the most divided camp within dogdom......in fact it amazes me that they can find two people who agree long enough to double handle the same dog!!!!! ;)
By aoife
Date 12.08.02 22:00 UTC
hi sam.
you are absolutly right, i just find it all very sad,those that take some things personaly and think you are having a dig at there actual pet,and just loose sight of the original things that were being debated,no wonder the breed is split,were did the divide come in the first place and it's so easy to play follow my leader. regards tina.
By aoife
Date 12.08.02 22:50 UTC
hi sam, you are absolutly right, all very sad i find, but thats life, good job i don't take offence, like a good debate and have good thick skin, perhaps a liitle to much though regards tina
By FRESKA999
Date 11.08.02 22:19 UTC
Hi Brainless
It really is a terrible situation when white long haired gsds are the representative in the breed.
Maybe the Dutch sieger is a better place to see the ' proper ones'.Or the German sieger next month.Do you know who is tipped for the Sieger this year ??
No these are white sheps recognised as a seperate breed, Dutch white shepherds!
By aoife
Date 11.08.02 23:27 UTC
hi fereska999.
have replyed to another poster on this but seeing as you know what i said remind me,i think some of you are taking this on apersonal thing like it's a attack on your own dogs, why print a dogs k.c name, do you they feel they have somthing to prove, i havent seen your dogs or know them,as long as you love them then what's the problem, i go to each board or thread and reply as i see fit,as joan says we must take the rough with the smooth.i look to a dog that has staying power not just to run around a ring ,to do a days work out in the field that will work to a good age, and not have to retire because it's hips have gone,the germans are very competetive when it comes to anything,that includes there breeding programes, do they all breed to one specific type then,i don't think so,so everyone has do follow the germans and do as the germans do regardless
if they have just bred a dog for the sole purpose of the show ring, regards tina.
By aoife
Date 11.08.02 22:47 UTC
hi cash, perhaps you need to go back tu the thread again i said i can't see how they could do the job they were bred for not they would.nt. or could not, take it how you like.read dizzy's coments and a few other threads to see when breeding becomes fashion and trend and not the standard,is this not why the breed is so split, read the critics from the german judges the english still breed to exageration,you would probably not like my type,i like to see a nice g.s.d wether it is so called germanic breeding or english breeding, i als show whippets that are bred to show ,course,and race the first i do the second as she is not quite old enoughyet but has had a trial run and was very good at it,have my brothers whippet supposed to be quality coursing and racing stock, i could not take it in the show ring very roached back, cow hocked, straight in the shoulder,and the front is all wrong this dog can not do the job it was bredto do efficiently, as far as shadow is concerned, firstly those two pups she has were sold at six weeks, they are now ten weeks and there future is already mapped out take a look at the breeders board.
regards tina
By metpol fan
Date 12.08.02 04:26 UTC
I wasnt going to post as i show my shepherd and i used to work for the met looking after there dogs and now work for the council looking after there security dogs but oh well, mine is a met bred dog not of show type but however i nice looking dog and what peevs me with the whole show thing is i have been beaten by some pretty awful dogs, yes there are some very nice dogs out there as i posted before but it does go to say if your face fits and the dog is well known you go a long way, i enjoy it but as i have been told by fellow exhibitors in the past get yourself a proper gsd everyone to there own, what i look for in a gsd doesnt mean that the next person is going to look for the same, i like a nice solid dog that could do a days work and to be honest what you see running round the ring sometimes couldnt!!!! i feel sometimes that they are now just being bred to do there 2 runs stand pretty and then thats the job done.
By aoife
Date 12.08.02 22:15 UTC
hi metpol fan,
agree here with you,you like what you like i lke what i like,you are happy doing what you do you are not forcing what you see is the one and only g.s.d on any one and i hope i am not, prey tell me what is a proper g.s.d!!!!!!! and you get that in all breeds with who is on the end of the lead, face judging i think they call it, thats part and parcel of the dog show thing,i'm not bothered by that i quite happily stay by the shore and paddle.regards tina
By Kash
Date 12.08.02 09:33 UTC
You were derogatory towards Germanic GSD's. Many of those on here with GSD's range from English, German, working and rescue and somehow in the time that I've been using this site there has been no friction between any of us, or anyone making derogatory comments towards anothers personal opinion. My bitch has a 'flowing topline, sloping from front to back' which makes her spot on the breed standard. More importantly she has the most beautiful face and a temperament to die for and she's Germanic. She is not bred for fashion or trend she is bred the same way that Sue (breeder) has been breeding for the last 25 years, which is as close to the standard as you can get. The future of Shadows puppies is not mapped out whatsoever, if you'd been around long enough to have even half a conversation with her you would know that she is actually a very nice lady, and most responsible. I am not continuing with this thread since you have obviously missed the point in the fact that this the comments starting this thread were the ones you made on the English bloodline thread.
Stacey
By FRESKA999
Date 12.08.02 12:28 UTC
Well put stacey....
I'm not continuing with this thread anymore either.
FRESKA999
By shadow
Date 13.08.02 18:09 UTC
Thanks for the kind comments Kash, Aoifes comments made me feel cheap, mercenary and stupid and as I hope you know by now I am neither.
The whole incident made me feel an outsider. Its not nice to feel the whole world is against you when all I want to do is love and look after my dogs, not make a fortune out of them.
Thanks again.
Lynne
By Kash
Date 13.08.02 18:30 UTC
I've emailed you:)
Stacey x x x
By metpol fan
Date 13.08.02 20:16 UTC
shadow i have e-mailed you with some info about tracing the history of your dogs, Diane
By aoife
Date 13.08.02 21:57 UTC
shadow,
if you were made to feel an outsider, then all i can say is sorry you feel that way,i made no personal attacks at you that was another poster, i feel that none of you have realy taken in what i am trying to say, if i don't come across very well again all i can say is sorry,you may all have had the perfect puppy/dog and been very lucky, i have had the results of bad breeding,poor hips,temprement problems,etc,had to make descisions on having a dog put to sleep well before it's time. so if i am harsh at times it's because i love and respect the breed,and to protect those that are getting involved with the g.s.d, we all make mistakes, and if by being harsh,stops people and makes them think.you can bang your head againts a brick wall at times and it just does not sink in.good book to get hold of £5.99 horst hegewald-kawich the german shepherd dog, metpol fan may be of interest to you author police dog handler and judge, pages 6 the begging of selective breeding,becoming fashionable, exploitation in the field,new attempts at breeding, also page 9 picture of present day german shepherd dog developed from old german herding dogs, very interesting picture, have not seen anything like this mean to show friend that went to world show.regards tina
By Leigh
Date 14.08.02 07:03 UTC
Your posting style is very aggressive Tina. We all know that this is not the easiest medium to communicate in and we all try to cut *newbies* some slack. It takes a bit of time to get used to different posting styles and I am sure you don't mean for yours to come over as harsh and judgemental as they do :-) Please remember that we are all here for the same reason ... our love of dogs.
By aoife
Date 14.08.02 23:04 UTC
hi,leigh,
what do you lot want blood, i have made apologies if the that person has felt offended,i am sure you all pick out the bits you only want to see and have a dig at, if i talk ribbish then i am quite happy with the rubbish i talk. i have seen far worse comments on these boards, leigh i also think this is also to do with the other buisness rgarding another matter.
By BethN
![[us]](/images/flags/us.png "United States")
Date 15.08.02 07:07 UTC
I have been reading this completely bemused..........
My only question is, is this all completely necessary. I don't even understand why you are both being so nasty to each other :( If you ask me, it's actually quite sad that you both love the same breed but are just trying to score points over each other !!!!!!
JMHO
Beth
By eoghania
![[de]](/images/flags/de.png "Germany")
Date 15.08.02 07:52 UTC
Beth, I share your bemusement :) I've been following this thread since it started and I really don't understand what exactly the points of dissention are despite copious back and forths concerning 'sides'. Very unclear and vague. No one seems happy at all with the discussion topic or one another. :( :(
Just a symptom, I guess, from all the variances within GSDs throughout Europe, the US and UK these days, I guess. I did a search the other day to see what I could find for breed examples of GSDs. .... lordy, talk about a variety of dog "looks" and claims. Enough to make my head spin.
If this was my chosen breed, I guess it would make me a bit upset. But why argue it out on here???? Preaching to the choir with the GSD fanciers who post on this site in my opinion. It has began to create a nasty tone :(
Pax allus ;)
By Leigh
Date 15.08.02 08:10 UTC
>>leigh i also think this is also to do with the other buisness rgarding another matter.
If you wish to discuss the Terms of Service (libel and duplicate posts) further, then contact [email admin@champdogs.co.uk]Admin[/email] direct. As I have pointed out to you before,
everyone agrees to abide by the Terms Of Service before they post. That includes you.
"Since this is interactive, and everyone who participates in the Champdogs Forum is "in it together", please treat others the way you wish to be treated. One way to guard against misunderstandings is to read over your response before you post it. Flaming or personal attacks are not allowed or tolerated. Should anyone use aggressively inappropriate language, start a personal attack, or engage in hate speech, they will be barred from all further discussions."
"We reserve the right to edit any and all content that has been placed on the Champdogs Forum."
Leigh
By eoghania
Date 12.08.02 06:28 UTC
Even in Germany, the GSD's vary quite a bit in standards and appearance :) ....jmho from seeing the dogs throughout the middle and southern part of the country with their owners. Some are very long haired, others- short haired. Backs can be long or curved. Coloring-- usually on the darker side, not very light. Let's not get into the muzzle shape :rolleyes:
90% seem to do the "Euro Lean" as I've called it and rarely do I see one walking quietly alongside its owner. I've seen mostly men using sheer brute strength to handle them. Not the happy family dog that everyone seems to believe :rolleyes: And I do like the look of the GSD... just not the overall temperament here in the "originating" country.
toodles
By metpol fan
Date 12.08.02 21:14 UTC
can i just ask agiosgsd seeing as you originally posted the question what your veiws are on peoples comments that have been left on this thread as you havent got involved with the subject since posting?
By aoife
Date 12.08.02 22:25 UTC
hi again metpol,
have been looking for the reply also from original poster,also to stacy iam sorry you don't understand my points, but shadow is on the breeder board,those pups are ten weeks old is she taking orders for two years time, regards tina
By AGIOSGSDS
Date 13.08.02 12:53 UTC
Hi Metpol fan
Been busy so not had chance to get involved again....I started this thread as a comment towards Aoife as her comment re the GERMAN shepherd s working capabilities were wrong, of course the German type can work, I saw the message she left for Stacey and Aoife still said the same thing.Can't really be bothered to discuss things with people who make comments like this when there are so many working German type dogs.
I read on another thread that she is getting a puppy bitch from Billy Petrie of Billnets Affix,Billy has some nice dogs who have free movement, good overlines etc...I would not really define Billys' stuff as Real English theyre more middle of the road.So aoife should have some fun with this bitch.
I would like to know however if Aoife has had GSDS before and what lines ??? It seems as though she is a new comer by the comments made re different types and their capabilities.And we certainly do not need people in the breed like this.Many of us show at all breed shows and get on well despite our different types, we don't go around saying that one persons dog couldn't work ect.There is enough back biting and politics involved already.
I also noticed that Stacey got rather upset AOIFES comments to and having Badboll and Arlett lines it's hardly suprising...these are two excellent lines of breeding, for both working and show.
Aoife seems to have alot to say on other threads as she says she like to have a discussion, no problem but think she goes over board.It's one thing to discuss confirmation of different types but to say The GERMAN type cannot work is just pathetic and it becomes ridiculous to discuss anymore with her on a subject she knows nothing about and if she did then why make such a stupid statement.
There aren't many English lines on the web, don't know why, but maybe before new comers get involved with English and German types, I think they should have a good look around at both types of shows.There's good and bad on both sides.
I personally don't like extremes on either side a nice balanced dog is the one for me, but if you love the breed then you love them all, they're pets after all not breeding machines and beauty pageant contestants.
My comments as requested.
AGIOS
By metpol fan
Date 13.08.02 19:57 UTC
Hi thankyou for your input, just wanted to see what you thought, actually im just very nosey :D
By aoife
Date 13.08.02 22:19 UTC
hi agiosgsds
fine, i don't mind being picked on , i have thick skin, i do not think you have even tryed to understand what i am rtrying to get across, i have said in other threads i like all g.s.d either side it makes no difference to me. again you take this as personal to your dog, have you had a go at the rest of the posters on there in put. no.
i am sorry but some of the germanic dogs out there are still very overexagerated,and said i could not see see see how they could do a days work not they could,nt or would't, and you are an expert as well, saw your web page, do you still show your eight year old, or is it retired, please do not take offence i have a right to my opinions and so do you, regards tina
By AGIOSGSDS
Date 13.08.02 22:53 UTC
To AOIFE
I'm no expert in GSDS I just love the breed, have my dogs hip scored before I breed with them,rear my pups indoors in a purpose built puppy room leading to a secure outside play area which incidentally is blockpaved.My kennels have ceramic tiles on the floor,each dog has it's own basket and vet bed too and the runs are block paved,my dogs have a huge paddock to play in.And I'm at home with them all day.And when people come for a puppy from me I give them the Spanish inquistion.I endorse all KC paperwork so that all dogs get hip scored etc before I will lift it and allow people to breed,new owners are fully aware of this and have to sign to say so, I do a very detailed puppy pack and explain they can call me 24 hours a day if there's a problem.Oh and to top it all if they ever need to re home the dog at any age it has to come back to me. ( Just thought I would explain how I do things before you have something to say about that to) Sorry but you seem to have a go at people for anything.
I have German Type which are in no way exaggerated, I don't like exaggerations on either side.Do you think all English Type can do a days work...if not you havn't said so...thats the problem I can be honest about the German types can you with the English type ?????
You say you have looked at my web page...whats the address for yours ???? I think I deserve to have a look and I'm sure other posters would to...certainly Metpol would as he's nosey ( only kidding Metpol) LOL.
And also what lines do you have....cos me and Metpol want to know...don't we Metpol????
As for Duke my eight year old he's retired from obedience, but he will be shown in Veteran soon, trouble is he's always flying his tail and wagging it like mad ( not a stressed dog).We have a three year old female who we're concentrating on at the moment, and a young pup of 8 weeks.Before you say anything she's not gating around the paddock just yet, it's just play play play,eat eat eat,sleep sleep sleep.
Look forward to your reply.....if you're going to be sensible.
Agios
By metpol fan
Date 13.08.02 22:58 UTC
metpol is a she, i havent changed sex not to my knowledge anyway, real name diane
By AGIOSGSDS
Date 13.08.02 23:03 UTC
My apologies Metpol !!!!
Agios
By AGIOSGSDS
Date 14.08.02 10:54 UTC
Hi Metpol
Looks like we have to find another way for me to look at your boy...oooops.Sorry Leigh.Can you e mail me a photo ???? direct...e mail address is in my profile.
Regards
Agios
By AGIOSGSDS
Date 13.08.02 23:01 UTC
Hi again Aoife
I noticed you told someone if they wanted a proud dog to get a poodle....If you dont' think a gsd looks proud get some glasses.They are a noble looking breed, extremely proud looking.Wonder if you really are looking at the breed for what it is or are blinded by types and politics.
AGIOS
By aoife
Date 14.08.02 00:24 UTC
hi agiosgsds,
if you have only just picked up the thread on the poodle comment, i know you have not read or taken in anything i have said,what am i having a go about, i am sure you will tell me.all the answers to all or most of your questions are allready written, of course i know there are also problems in the english lines as well, if you read my threads all of them you will see , how many times am i going to have to reapeat myself,what do i need a web page for to take pre bookings on a pup thats not even born yet, and because i am getting a bitch you have decided for me that i am going to breed and that i must have a web page to be,SOMEONE,now go back and have a pop at everyone else for making far worse comments than i have.as for how long i have had g.s.d again the answers are already there. regards tina
By AGIOSGSDS
Date 14.08.02 12:01 UTC
Hi Aiofe
Firsly can you please please please show me where I decided you were breeding from your pup that you don't even have yet ???? False statement number 1
Secondly where did I say that you have to have a web page to be SOMEONE ????/ false statement number 2
Thirdly where do you get the idea that people have web sites to purely advertise puppies ???? Some of us love our dogs and just have a fun pet web site just for them ......not to be someone !!!!! The people that think they're someone are usually no one.
If you hav'nt got one well no big deal not for me anyway...but you seem to have a great big bumble bee in your bonnet about it !
I replied to Metpol explaining I had been busy so hadn't replied....that's why I hadnt picked up about the poodle statement....BUT it still doesnt change the FACT that the GSD WHATEVER TYPE IS STILL ONE OF THE PROUDEST DOGS i KNOW ! can you not just admit that I'm right about that...go on I won't tell anyone that you agreed honest.
As for answering my question on what lines you have had in your 22 years I can't seem to find anywhere the answers....so please enlighten me?????
Maybe you can e mail me some photos ???? or is that a problem too ???
I actually think you are the one who is getting hot under the collar about this thread despite your thick skin.
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