Hi Tina
Yes, I know what you are trying to say and I think we are trying to say roughly the same thing! :D
I have just posted again above to try and explain my thoughts more clearly.
Thanx for the support.
Nicky

hi nicky,
as i said totally with you on this,and the rest of posts you have returned,nearly replyed before reading all of them,then had a quick look and you took the words right out of my mouth, some breeders are unaware there dogs are in rescue as you say,poss with the bigger breeds, you have trusted the people you have sold your pups to ,to be honest,to tell you and return them should they have problems,as you say some don't give a monkeys,some people are to embarresed to return them as they do not want to be seen as failing.
take myself as an example, new to the breed that i now want,interested in showing if it fits in with family,before i look for breeder go to library, get all books on that breed,look at influential kennels there type of breeding, what do i like, study breed standard and try and understand as much as i can,find suitable breeder, very lucky on my door step, when go to see pups and mum, look at ped and know that i have some nice line bred stock breeder explains she went slightly out so that she could come back in again, tell her i would like to have a go at showing, so guides me to the one she thinksmay be promising, although it was nice i was not drawn to it , prefered the small nosey one,so decided on that,breeder said she was rather small but lets see how she comes along, shows me how to stand her, go over her etc.started this gently from 8 weeks old, she is doing well enough for me as my first one of that breed,did my homework before, if and when i decide to have a litter i have my breeder to go through peds and guide me. i do not need the board in this topic, this is what nicky is saying the breeder needs the knoledge in the first place to pass on to the next if they do not then perhaps they should not breed until they know that there breeder is also knoledgable in there breed. i would be using the boards to ask things like how close you can breed, others experience on having first litter,how you vetted new owners etc.
the boards are a wealth of some very good advice, but you have to keep saying go back to your breeder,
some people do not want to here there beloved pet is not quite the dog or bitch for breeding and will carry on regardless, another poster said that if you can catch the odd one or two that grasp what most are trying to say, then thats good, regards tina

Hi Tina
We must be on the same wavelength! :D
How you have gone about things is exactly how I started. Glad you too have a good, experienced, knowledgable breeder to guide you, it's an essential isn't it?
Wish you good luck with showing, it's v.good fun, but go into it with an open mind and don't give up at your first knock back. ;)
Nicky

hi nicky,
nice to find you and i think the same,also like good debate, have had a good bit of bashing on another thread over last few days.i do enjoy the showing and well aware of the pecking order so to speak, may be a novice in showing, i am a quick learner, if people can't take the nock backs and loosing."if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen" so to speak, i have dreams and ambitions like most but happy to stay near the shores and paddle, to many sharks in the deep waters. regards tina

Hi Tina
Well noted!
What thread are you talking about?
What breed are you in?
Nicky

hi nicky,
i have a whippet that i show my other passion is g.s.d, thread ,breeding re comments on g.s.d, talking to breeder today about this subject as she has been involved in showing and breeding for long time and is very knoledgable in a lot of doggy subjects. i feel very sad that someone wanting to get involved with showing a g.s.d must firstly decide what so called camp they wish to belong to, so you can't just get a g.s.d and enter a ch show or breed club show without someone saying you have to pick your judges as some like germanic breeding and some like the so called english lines, i like both if they have what i look for in a dog,off putting before you start, i am told the germanic camp like to double handle there dogs, can't and don't understand the effects they wish to create with this,and being told there is only one type of g.s.d, are we to be told next that to have a real g.s.d that it has to be bred and born in country of origin making imports the proper g.s.d and next we have to be a actual german, if i say sister lives in germany i suppose i am half way there, realy find it sad that it is very split, have listen to chit chat from show people and seems the g.s.d scene is not thought of very highly,but who cares i am quite happy with the so called rubbish i talk and plod away, if i am not hung drawn and quatered, regards tina

That is the thought that goes through my head every time, LOL :D

I just stick with the thougtht if we don't try to educate, they will just go off and find any old dog, and there goes another ill thought out litter that will more than likely help swell the numbers in the dogs home!

This is true Brainless. New people or new guests come onto the board and time and again ask the same questions. The problem is, although we have answered it before they weren't here to see the answer. Some will take offence at the answer they get and leave to do their own thing. In those cases we have failed! Others will see the (Hopefully) wisdom of what we say and go further into it before they start breeding. They are the success stories! We can't change the world but hopefully we can make a small dent in it.

Regards, John

PS. I'm still not knocking you Nicky, just putting a different perspective on it. :)

Hi John
I realise you are not knocking me for my opinions.
I just feel that the bottomline to all of this is that these people take the easy way out of having to do any research or footwork by just sitting in front of their PC, posting a Q and expecting it all to come to them.
I hope that's understandable, it reads ok, but then I wrote it so I know what it should say, if you know what I mean.
Nicky :)

I'm one of those that took the easy way out, 18 months ago I was offered a 1yo GSP, I had only ever seen a couple and quite liked them so I asked questions on here, got some good honest replies, so I took the dog on. I've done an awful lot of research on the internet and since having him have met and talked to many other owners. I had no intention of showing or breeding from him and still don't, but in the last 6 months I have been told many times that I should show and had 3 request to breed from him, all turned down. I've now, for the first time in my life, started training him to work, without the help and advice I got from the internet I would still know nothing, I'm far from an expert and never will be, but this medium of research has been invaluable. Ingrid

I agree that the internet is a valuable research tool Ingrid, and have said previously that I have nothing against it as a medium for info. You & your situation are very different to that which I was decrying, you sought to do the legwork before you took him on. :)
Nicky

Yes I did some of the legwork, but only into what to expect character wise, I have since learnt a lot about pedigrees, genetics etc from the internet. As I mentioned, I have many times been told he is a good looking dog and ask to breed from him, it could so easily have been me setting out to get a bitch for this purpose and asking these questions, having never bred in the past I would have no idea where to start.
Ingrid

Understandable and I understand Nickie. People taking the easy way out! Why do people breed? It's all tied in together.

Some 30 years ago a member of the dog club I worked my dogs at in those days mated his Labrador bitch. The bitch had 11 puppies which sold for £50 each (This was around the price for a good Lab puppy in those days.) Knocking out the £50 stud fee that was a clear £500 profit! Remember, there was not much in the way of special diets in those days and a good proportion of the food would have come from table scraps. Thinking, "We'll have some more of this!" the bitch was mated again a year later. The bitch miscarried and there were big vets bills, (£600 if my memory serves me right!) plus the stud fee and he had lost the entire profit from the first litter! He never bred another litter!

People breed for so many reasons, some good, some bad! "Every bitch should have a litter!" "It will calm her down!" "I need the money!" "My bitch is perfect in every detail!" We've all heard these reasons and we all know they are rubbish! So if we don’t breed for those reasons why do we breed? Because we feel broody and want puppies around the place? That's obviously not a good reason either! Because we want a puppy? There are plenty out there without breeding possibly 10 puppies just so that we can have one!

So what are we left with? The desire to produce something better than there is currently available, something which will advance the breed! Now that, to me anyway is a very laudable reason and in fact the only reason! But if that is going to be the reason then it is not going to be achieved without work! Researching pedigrees, studying the possibilities in the show ring or in the field, meeting the dogs socially, (Around the bench or whatever) to study temperament, (Which can hardly be seen at a range of 30 yds or so from the other side of the show ring!!!) This to me is where we come in. Education! If we can only educate a few into a more responsible attitude to breeding and the choosing stud dogs then we have achieved something.

One thing to remember. The stupid question is only stupid if you know the answer! If you don’t then it can be the most important thing on your mind!

The world according to Johnsey!

Regards, John

well said, "the doddery old fool" this the new user name john l.o.l tina.

WATCH IT YOU!!!!! :COOL:

"lovely doddery old fool""is that better, just be gentle with me" l.o.l tina

What words of wisdom. You must be ancient John :D :D

Try not to take it to heart, John - we all know you're still in Kindergarten and love the Harleys ;-)

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

John is my crocodile dundee , even wears the hat dont you petal :D

Hi John
What a wise old bird you are. :)
I hope I can one day know as much as you so plainly do, although I know now I'll NEVER know everything about dogs, and I think that would be your philosphy too. :D
Nicky

Flattery will get you lot everywhere!

:D @ John