Hi my friends dog had five puppies but only one survived two were born dead and two died the second day has this happpened to anyone else? is a breeder expected to loose twenty percent of their litter or is it carelessness or not knowing enough about breeding?

Luckily I've never lost a single puppy from any of my litters, but to lose eighty percent ... I assume your friend's had PMs done to ascertain the reason for the deaths?

Hi jeangenie she went to the vet and asked if it was puppy fading syndrome but the vet said this can happen because of all kinds of reasons because the mother was a first time mum and she didn't know what to do but i wasn't convinced!

Dogs don't always know what to do and some breeds find it difficult because of muzzle shape.  Was your friend with her to assist removing them quickly from the sacs etc and did she stay with them to ensure they were all able to feed and eliminate properly?

First time mums can be perfectly capable of raising litters without loss. The bitch wasn't whelping alone, was she? Without a PM nobody'll know if they had congenital problems or illness.

Goodness that's a serious problem! :(

Just bad luck sometimes.  My friend who posts here lost 3 out of five pups from a litter last year.

I had never had a still born pup until my 'H' Litter (long labour two still born, one laid on and crushed by tired Mum, and another failed to thrive, loosing half the litter), though had lost two pups in second litter and one pup from 4th (different bitches).

The bitch that lost half her litter after a long labour, had a large litter whelped and reared with no bother 3 years earlier, and a year after the losses had a litter of four all surviving.

Jozi had a long labour and had the fifth pup stillborn, two years later a quickish labour, with 7 healthy pups.

Had a C section on a third litter for one bitch after two easy litters with just one pup lost from her second.

My conclusion would be that litters that take their time are more likely to have still born or unthrifty pups, but is this cause or effect?

I've got to admit here yes she was every pup what came out she was there removing sack getting mum to clean the pup and even getting the pups to feed it just so happens they died the next day they really did have the best care possible but we just dont know why they died:rolleyes:

It is extremely bad luck what has happened, but seems an awful lot of pups to loose.  If they were your pups I probably wouldn't say anything to hurt your feelings, but as they are not yours it is quite probable that some may have been saved.

Did your friend, help to open the pups sacks, a lot of bitches do not do this and we need to interviene?  A lot of pups can suffocate if the sack is not removed quickly enough. Were the pups that were born dead helped in anyway, did your friend try to revive by mouth to mouth and towel rubbing the body, tilting the heads back?  The pups that died on the second day, was your friend watchful that the pups were not sat on by the mum and suffocated or litterally squashed to death? Pups and bitch need careful watching by the owner for the first two weeks.

All these things are preventable by knowing what you are doing. It seems a really high number to loose, sometimes it is just ment to be, other times it is not knowing enough due to the high loss, I just have the feeling it is the later.

Even so, it is terribly, terribly sad for your friend and her bitch, I hope that they are both ok.

Just read your second post susantwenty, so I guess it was nature that took the first pups, very, very, sad.

i WILL SAY THIS MY FRIEND IS A LOVELY PERSON AND YES SHE DID OPEN ALL THE SACKS PLUS SHE TRIED TO GET THEM THEIR FIRSTFEED AS MUM REALLY DIDNT HAVE A CLUEH

i lost 1 litter to kennel cough 6 die out of 9
then last year she had the puppies early again on day 54 5 puppies bye 24 hour were dead.

It can and does happen.  My Spanish not so much but Pomeranian's can certainly be a heart breaking breed

If she was with her all the time and can rule out accidental death then like JG says it could be either infection or congenital.  Without a PM I'm afraid your friend will never know.

An owner can sit with a bitch all the time and still not have the knowledge to do the right thing ........................ maybe too cold, maybe not feeding, maybe not cleared fluid from lungs, maybe not experienced enough to notice congenital defects?????????
I know of someone who has been breeding for 40 years and has 12 months worth of experience! :(  No box of whelping necessities, no disinfecting, doesn't know when to call the Vet etc........ and wonder why they loose pups and adults.

True, not much point in sitting there if you have not learnt was it is you are sitting there for :)

;)

Has your friends dog possibly contracted canine herpes disease, a friend of ours lost a whole litter to this last year within days of them being due they reabsorbed, apparently most of us wouldn't notice our bitches being a 'bit offside' enough for a day to warrant a test especially when in whelp but this disease will kill all or almost all the pups either prior to birth or after.  We used the same stud dog and lost 50% of his litter we asked the vets if it was down to him, a dog of ours not outside stud, she told us that it was more than likely she passed it to him or they both picked it up at the same show/walk as they don't need to be in close intimate contact to contract the disease.

We had all our dogs tested and found only the dam of the litter to have a positive titre test ie a big difference between the two blood tests 2 wks apart, the stud showed no difference but that didn't mean he hasn't been in contact with the disease and needed to be stressed to start to shed the virus again for them to get a more definite result.  We had to make a decision do we opt for the vacine during whelp or wait and see with the other dogs in both kennels, our friend had her GSD bitch vacinated and lost the litter again to reabsorption and the original schippy bitch was also vacinated and produced a lovely litter of 4 healthy pups, so we decided to wait it out with the schips here and touch wood 1 litter has been born no problems and my friends is due in 2 wks and looking fit and healthy so far.

my friend who has bred alot of litters over the years,had barely lost a pup. then last year he had a litter of 9. all was fine for a week,....then they just started dying :(
he was left with 3, one braindamaged, one a littlebit "odd" ,1 fine
totally devastaing

I think that I could only say its one of those things that you just wont know what happened.
It can always be upsetting to loose puppies.  What we have to remember also that the way
puppy's are formed in such a quick period of time, its amazing in the first place that any are born
normally.  From conception to 9 weeks you have a puppy.  In that time a bitch is liable to pick up
bacterial, viral infections.  With out anything genetic going on.  Fading puppy syndrome is something
everyone I am sure will come across at some point in their life if they breed.  Canine Herpes too can be the result of puppy loss.  We had a bitch years ago that ate some meat that had gone off, you know when you walk your dogs and they grab some dead rabbit on the side.  The following day she had diarrhoea, and I took her straight to the vets because she was 4 weeks in whelp.  All was fine or so we thought, but when the pups were born we lost a few and its was E-coli from this rabbit she had picked up.  So I would tell your friend not to worry too much, and that hopefully if she did it all again everything would be fine.  Sometimes BTW it can be the wrong dog mated to the bitch, genes just did not click.  So they usually say find a different stud dog.  To check for canine herpes ask your vet for a smear test. Oh yes one last thing a bitch I knew absorbed pups due to a infection of pasterulla Microcebia (Okay spelt that wrong, but I think you can get the gist of the name).  Aparently all bitches will have this bug in them to a certain degree, but if it goes outside normal range, then they should have antibiotics to clear it up.  We have our bitches smeared before a season to check for the normal ranges of bacterias. 
Rachel

totally devastaing

Tell me about it Mchelle, the puppies simply died for no reason including one that should have been mine

Sadly it does happen, but not often & thankfully not to him again

This has really struck a chord with me.

as some of you may be aware, my bitch had pups on monday. She had one born natuarlly, one born dead (also natuarl birth with me in attendence. He was born with no bag and rubbing, shaking and mouth-to-mouth had no effect) then a ceaser with one more dead. So from carring 8 we were left with 6.

The mum is totally uninterested in the pups and doesn't clean them or respond to their cries. I have to clean them as they were stinking. She is standing on them, sitting on them and lying on them at every opportunity. OH and I are spending all of our time in the kitchen removing pups from under her.Several have had to have mouth-to-mouth.

This morning one of the bitches (who,along with 2 dogs has been week and listless) had blood coming from her nose where Mum had lay on her. She had to be PTS :-(

now 2 boys are looking very ill and are being bottle-fed and kept warm but it doesn't look good. :-(

So from a litter of 8 concieved,6 survived birth and now only 3 are healthy.

The 3 remaining ones are thriving and growing like mad. Gaining 2oz per day. We have been very careful to make sure they aren't pushing the little ones off and have been supplementing them as well.

In 9 litters over 15 years we have never lost a pup before.