hey, well i have managed to convice my mum that once we have got into the BARF way it will be almost as easy feeding the dogs as it is now.
Basically i was wondering if anyone could email me/post a weekly plan of what they do for their dogs which would be great to get me started.
Also i have forgotten the name of the book everyone reccomends so if people could tell me that would be great.
Also is it 2-3% of an adult dogs body weight you give (depending on how active?)
And last could you give me a break up of portions ie. i think it is 60% RMB but i can't remember the veg % or the offal % and then the fresh meat and extras. Thanks
I know this is a lot to ask but any help would be great.
Don't feel you have to answer if it is too much trouble
Thanks
Anna (and some very grateful dogs :D)

Always my initial response to this question is read this:
Dont just do it!
Its a great article. I'd always say where possible get some one/Breeder to 'Mentor' you (some one who has been 'Barfing' a good long while).

http://www.barfworld.com  is the web site of Dr.Ian Billingshurst *think* that might be who your refering to regarding books on Barf :)

Many people (and those posting menu's on the www.) 'adapt' Billingshurst's Diets/menu plans..this is why I'd say go to a reputable Breeder/owner/handler to help 'mentor' you throught this... and why Ive posted the first link, a cautionary article :)
( I had a mentor in my breed help me through learning raw feeding)
Good Luck, ( and good choice! ;) )
HG :D

The book by Kymythy Schultz is very readable - someone is still reading mine as it hasn't come back!!

I'd second that - small and very easy to read.

Yep, I'd recommend the Kymythy Schulz one too...it's called 'Natural Nutrition for Cats & Dogs and is available from www.amazon.co.uk :)

I'm sure it would be very helpful to have a mentor for raw feeding but I'm a bit of a voice in the wilderness in these parts when it comes to raw feeding so I've had to go it alone :) There is a wealth of infor on CD if you use the search facility but I would highly recommend you read up a bit before starting off :)

Best of luck with it.

I agree and we are seriously thinking about it now after our Scottish trip

Mike is already sussing the room for the Barf freezer :D

I am sure my mentor won't mind a few phonecalls and e-mails ;)

Lucy
xx

Ok am a bit nervous of talking to people i don't know so do you think it would be ok if i followed the books precisely i would be ok. i think i will go and get a book and see how i feel about it. If i feel i need help well i will have to get someone to help me.

Are the one by Kymythy Schulz and Dr Billinghurst similar or is there one that you would reccomend more.
sorry for all the questions

Anna

IMO, the Kymythy Schulz one is the best starting point as it is logical and simple and easy to read :)

By all means, go on to read Billinghurst bit I personally find his writing style kind of hard to follow at times. His books remind me a little of flat-pack furniture instructions...the information is all there but deciphering it takes a bit of time ;) JMO, of course...others might disagree :)

I agree - the book by Kymythy Schultz is very readable, recipes and amounts are given for different weights of dogs, so that is quite helpful.

Ill pm you....

Em

ok this may be a really stupid question. But i have just got Ian Billinghurst's book and it says crush all of the veg and fruit including skins. I understand this but if you are giving a bit of bananna do you keep the skin on or peel it.

Sorry stupid quesiton i know

Anna

I've always peeled them :D

I've just started the BARF diet with my 8 week old GR too, and yes it seems a bit confusing at first, but it has started to get a bit easier now.   I've got 2 Ian Billinghurst books, 'Grow your pups with bones' got great pattie recipe in there and weight ratio etc and also give your dog a bone, which I will have to start reading too.

Thanks for the links HuskyGal.

By the way I peel the bananas!
Maria

by the way if you pm me I can email you the recipe

I do agree they take a little bit of 're-reading' the Ian Billinghurst books -  but as you say the info is there!

www.rawmeatybones.com

If you go to the above site you can download a book called "Works Wonders" by Dr Tom Lonsdale FREE.

Cheers Martin.

Go to http://www.rawdogranch.com It has all the info you'll need and the owner of the site is very generous with her time and will be happy to answer any of your questions. Out of all Of Billinghursts books i would recommend his last one "The barf diet" .

I brought "The Barf Diet" and have read it all the way through highlighting the bits I need.
I actually didn't find his language too difficutl but I have had some experience of that language at the vets I work at.
Two questions: He goes on about young animals bones being used - I was thinking of buying the AMP range will these be good enough?

And secondly The supplements I was thinking of using were:
salmon oil
kelp
alfafa (sp?)
and EPO possibly Do these sound ok. I would only use small amounts.

Thanks for all the advise
Anna

I stop using oils and EPO in summer because of the risk of over heating, with my breed being double coated, might be something to look into..Im not tooo clued up on Vizlas propensity tho' sorry!

One more thing sorry :(
Of the extras ie 10% of the diet how much should be extra meat ie tripe etc...
Sorry about all these questions

Another question sorry about this.
How much would you start with. I have worked out both 2% and 3% of thier body weights but i am really unsure about whether to start at the 2% or the 3%. What have other people done?

I am going shopping today for all of theri bits and pieces. They are going to love me forever.
Thakns for all your help. Don't feel you need to answer it is only if you want to.
Thanks again
Sorry
Anna

Would you say that your dogs have a tendency to put weight on easily? If so I'd start with 2%. If they are on the slim side I'd go with 3%. My oldest boy can eat and eat and never puts on too much weight while my younger boy I have to watch or he would.

As for the question about tripe sounds like you are counting that  as offal along with liver kidney etc. Don't know what others do but I count that in with muscle meat same as heart.

HTH :D

Hi Anna,  Just wanted to say stop saying sorry for asking questions - we all need help when starting out and you're probably helping lots of other people as well as yourself by asking these things. :)

Ditto! No need to keep apologising :) You want to get it right and people are more than willing to assist so ask away!

I'd start at 2% (if they are adults) and guage how they are doing from there. You know your dogs best and will know if they still seem ravenous or are looking 'ribby' and you can adjust accordingly :) It's much easier to get weight on again than it is to get it off them (I know as my boy only needs to look at food to pile on the pounds...think he gets it from me :rolleyes: )

Both of my dogs get less than the textbook recommended amount daily and i tend to adjust amounts according to their activity levels.

HTH :)

Well they are starting tomorrow :)
There is one more question - this weeks I  got from the super market which is a really expensive way of doing it so I am looking to make it cheaper. It says on the landywoods website that they deliver to some areas of london. How can I find out if they deliver near me. Also do they have any stores around the place. And thirdly how do I order from them? Do I have to phone them up and just give them my order?
Thankyou
I can get AMP near me but I need a bit more variety in the foods. Ie a variety of bones other than just chicken and turkey.
Thankyou
I am really excieted (no idea why) about diong it as I have been wanting to give them it for ages.
Thankyou for all your help - no dought I will be back soon with more questions :D
Thanks
Anna

Hi Anna
I have recently started using Landywoods, I just called the number on their website and spoke to the very helpful lady.  They deliver this way (Devon) once a month - next Wednesday for me so I need to order!  I phone my order through to them.
Good luck, I'm sure your dogs will be delighted!

I've just started using Landywoods too and am very pleased and so are the dogs :D  They are really helpful if you phone them

Landywoods are good value I think.  Be aware they have a £50 minimum order though - don't know how much storage space you have!  Best to just phone or email to find out if they cover your area and if so, when.  You can place orders via phone or email and payment is either by credit card in advance, or cash/cheque on delivery.  I personally think their stuff is better quality than AMP, although I do use a bit of that as well.  Don't think you can buy it from any stores.

Their price list can be a bit confusing as it doesn't tell you ordering quantities so you might want to clarify this with them.  For example, although the minced meats are shown as a price per pack, you are actually supposed to order 36 packs of the same variety although I think from what other people have said that they can be flexible on this. 

Good luck!

Landywoods don't deliver in my area so I buy nearly all the dogs' meat from a local(ish) farm butcher. As I am generally buying the cheaper, lower quality cuts it's not too expensive plus I know where/how the animals are raised/slaughtered. All RMBs are thrown in free of charge and he'll often throw in little bits of stuff that he feels he can't sell for whatever reason. I'm such a good customer that he often gives me good discount off the meat I buy for us too :)

I think that is what I will end up doing as we don't have enough room for £50 worth of meat in the freezer.
Thanks again
Anna

Anna,  Do you know anyone locally who you could maybe split the order with?  This is what I do.

I'm going through all the starting out nerves that you are - so your thread has been of great help to me too!  I've just registered with britbarf too, there's always help and advice there as well. Everyone's so helpful

Its horrible isn't it. I keep waking up thinking i haven't got it balanced enough. Also one of my dogs was sick this morning and it had some sharp pieces of bone in it. I am not too worried as they have both eaten and pooed so i dought there is anything wrong. Theri poos have already (one day) become harder and about half the size allso don't smell anyweher near as bad.  So I am looking forward to the improvemnets. I am also going to see if some of my dogs behavioural problems ease up on it. I am not expecting it too but I have heard that it can sometimes help.

Glad the topic helped you.

Rosie sicked up some bone the other morning ....... that's it, I thought - I can't do this.  When I decided to act like an adult, I came to the conclusion that dogs are very well designed to bring up anything that their system can't cope with. That what I am doing for her is the best thing and what I can do to help is just keep talking to people who know what their doing with raw feeding and learn from them. I've noticed an improvement in Rosie's poos - less of them and of a much more health consistency (sorry, I've become obsessed with her poos lately!) She seems very happy and healthy, and that's all that matters. By the way, I made my first order from Landywoods today, so fingers crossed.  It's good to know that others go through all the self doubt that I do!!  Keep at it and you can always PM me if you would like!! Best of luck ...
Karen

Don't worry too much about your dogs bringing up a few bits of bones. Its only because, until their digestive juices get stronger to cope with bones, they just bring up what can't be digested, basically to get rid of it out of their system :) I would think most dogs, when starting on BARF will bring some bits back until the stomach acids are strong enough to break the bones down. I know mine did.
Anndee

My dogs are really starving on 2% of their body weight. Should I put it up to 3% or will that not be enough. They are both young (2yrs old) and get about 2hrs excercise a day. Any one had any experience. They are being so annoying and just won't settle and keep pacing and whining. They seem ravanous. Other than that they love the food just not sure they are getting enough.
Thanks
Anna

Yes, increase it to 3% if you really feel they are starving. Keep a close eye on their weight over the coming days/weeks just to make sure it sn't too much. 2-3% really is just a guideline as some dogs will thrive on substantially less and other very active dogs may need a bit more. You just have to guage the needs of your individual dogs :)

It's early days for you yet so still a bit of trial and error with the amounts but stick with it, you'll get the hang of it in no time :)

they really r hungry and the vizsla has already lost weight in the two days (see always seems to loose weight quickly) the other dog is a bit thinner. they r both thin dogs anyway (i keep them that way) so any weight loss really shows
i will up it to 3% and see how it goes.
thank you

Hi Anna
Do you mean they are thin, or trim and fit?  To my mind, there is a difference.  Also, if they are lean and very active, they will probably need a higher percentage of their body weight so they don't loose too much weight.  If you are going to increase the quantities to put the weight back on, you may want to consider feeding 3 meals a day for a while, so you don't end up with squitty dogs.  Also, tripe is very good for putting a bit of weight on.

They are trim and fit. they have lovely definition and every one comments on how good they look. sorry if i implied they were thin. I wouldn't keep them thin as it isn't healthy. Thanks for the advise and sorry if i made it sound wrong.

They will be getting tripe as part of thier offal. I have just recalculated everything so they shouldn't be hungrey.

Hi,

You can actually feed tripe as a muscle meat, so a whole meal can be tripe in other words.

The 2-3% really is only a rough guideline. When I was researching raw feeding I came across a website owned by someone who has several dogs, one of which was having 4.5% bodyweight.

You say you can feed it as a muscle meat but can you include it as offal?

I don't think it's technically classed as offal, but there aren't any hard and fast rules :D

I think the main priority with offal is feeding a variety. I only feed about 5-10% of the weekly food as offal. Usually half of that is liver, the rest kidney, heart (although heart can also be feed as a muscle meat :D) and whatever bits are left inside the chicken carcasses I get. I also use puffed jerky (lung) as treats. Tripe I feed as a whole meal twice a week.

I had planned to feed 10% offal a week.
1/2 of that tripe
1/4 liver (as i thought you weren't supposed to feed too much of it)
then heart and kidney to make the rest.
In the book i brought it said to count tripe as offal. I think i will stick to the book as then I will be sure I am doing it right (well hopefully) I think I will get too muddled other wise.
If people think this is too much tripe do let me know.
Thanks again for all your help
Sorry about all the questions

urgh.

Just cut up their portions of tripe. I have never smelt anything so discusting i all my life. I thought I was going to be sick.

I now realise what you are all talking about when you mention the smell.

Just an update on how they are doiing: You may remember that my Vizsla has fear aggression to other dogs. Well this may be a coincidence but she has really changed since being on BARF. Now I dont know but I am sure it is the diet. She just is so much calmer with other dogs and actually wanted to go up to them. I let her on a couple of dogs whoes owners I asked and their dogs seems quite calm and she was really really good.
Wow is all I can say. Still she may be just having a good day.

I got my york test results back for Pesto and she is allergic to Lamb, Chicken, Beef, Barley and most of all White fish. And since I have been giving her lamb neck and chicken wings as part of her RMB she has been hugely itchy. It may be because it has been hot and her allergy is always worse in summer but it looks like she won't be getting any of them. Can anyone suggest alternative meats that arn't too expensive and reletively easy to get hold of. I may be being really dense but I can only think of rabbit and duck sorry.

Thanks for all the help.
Anna and the extremely happy and glossy and full dogs :)

eggs & cottage cheese are good alternative sources of protein :)

In meats, poultry, fish :-  turkey, pork, salmon, venison (might be getting a tad pricey now! :D ) - occasionally the less common meats and poultry can be bought at discount prices from suppliers or from the likes of Makro, Costco etc.

I'm sure others will have further suggestions.

HTH meantime, Teri :)

Hi

Yes, tripe has a fairly pungent aroma, doesn't it? :D If you think it's bad raw, don't ever try cooking it!!

It's a shame that Pesto is allergice to lamb, chicken, white fish & beef but I'm sure you'll be able to manage. You can feed pork (including pigs liver/kidney etc & belly ribs will provide some bone content), turkey (legs, necks etc), rabbit, venison and other 'game' (not sure where to source it cheaply though) and non-white fish such as salmon, trout, mackerel, sardines etc. If you have a fish market nearby you should be able to pick whole fish up quite cheaply and don't be afraid to haggle a bit :)

Hopefully others will be along soon with more suggestions :) It will be a little bit more of a challenge but I'm sure you will be able to come up with a suitable menu plan for her.

*edit* see old lightning fingers Teri beat me to it :D

Oi, less of the old :D  you've been talking to Missie - haven't you? :rolleyes: When I next see her :P

Oh and one other thing sorry. You all say your butchers are really nice and sometimes give you the left overs of what they havn't sold. Did that happen because you asked or because you had beeen such good customers for so long. I expect the latter.

As I live in london some of the butchers are quite snooty and very pricey (found one near where my dad works which is much cheeper - well  it is tooting ;) ) and We went into one and explained what we were doing and were then asked if we wanted any steak for them. Ok i love my dogs but steak i think that is a bit over the top. We then explained it again and were told thhat whenever people come in for food for dogs that is what they are asked for. Is it just me or is that abit OTT.

Not sure if this is a good price but from tooting we get 1kg of RMB for £2. Does anyone know if i could get it cheaper or if that is a good price? I have never brought from a bucher before so am totally new to all this. You probs all think i am stupid but i don't know how much you should pay for meat. My dad thinks it is ok but some other opinions would be good. Sorry

Sorry bout the long winded posts
Anna

No, I've never bought steak for the dogs! I love them but not that much!! :D

I suppose it helps that my family have been going to the same farm butcher since for about 30 years so we are all well-known there. That is perhaps why I get little extras thrown in for nothing and I am usually picking up my order late in the day as they are clearing up so I think sometimes it's just a case of being in the right place at  the right time.

When I started BARF and spoke to the butcher and he made a few suggestions. They do a pet mince (50p per kg) that is basically scraps and ends thrown into the mincer with some cereal added but I never buy this one. He also suggested a mince that they make up to supply to a company that makes procesed burgers etc. This is pure beef mince at 50p per lb but I ask him to leave it unminced which he is happy to do. Stewing lamb is 80p per lb and mostly comes wth the bone in. It is very good quality and I have been known to pinch a bit to throw in a curry ;) Ox kidney and ox liver are both 80p/lb and hearts are £2 for a bag of six. Pork belly ribs are a bit pricier at £1.10/lb. All marrow/knuckle bones are free but I am cheeky and ask him to keep me the cow ribs as the dogs love 'em ;) I guess living in London, you'd be unlikely to find such a butcher though as they are used to catering for a different market.

Another place I sometimes have success is a local 'ethnic' supermarket/wholesaler (they mainly supply to chinese & indian restaurants but have a 'retail' side too). There are a couple where I live and I can sometimes pick up cheap ducks/squid/pork etc. I was once offered a whole suckling pig that someone had ordered and didn't collect but I had to decline...I couldn't face dismembering the poor thing And of course, there's always the 'reduced to clear' section of the local Tesco/Asda/Sainsbury which can sometimes be a treaure trove ;)

Get out the yellow pages and have a trawl through for poultry processors, wholesalers etc. and give them a call. I had an account set up with a local chicken processing place but it turns out I can buy chicken wings cheaper in Tesco so I haven't used the account.

Happy hunting :)