I know this seems to be turning into a horse debating board :D  but i thought now would be the time to raise an issue i have ofter thought about posting on here.

It is regarding 'Foster Mares'

Now you may be thinking that what could be more ethical than getting something good from two bad situations? But i am talking about in the racing industry.

Following on from the other thread about horses being too valuable to turn out, some large studs have decied their foals are too valuable to stay with their mothers. When the top class mare is covered by the best stallions she sometimes has to cross the Atlantic, sometimes the Irish Sea and sometimes the whole World ( this is if she is sold as southern hemisphere are on different breeding time)

However, as early covering dates are best as these lead to early foals and earlier racecourse performance, then the aim is to get the mare covered on her 'foal heat' 7 days after she has foaled. Obviously the foal is far to young to fly at that age (and in fact cannot travel until it is 7 days and if driving to Ireland it must be 10 days) even if they wait for the next season the foal is still too young and of course too valuable to risk.

So a foster mother is used. But where do they get all the foster mothers from? Well, they have several cobs mares hidden away at their palatial studs and these are covered to Thoroughbred time (early january foal best).

When the expensive foal is born and it's mother ready to go away, a cob mare with foal of the same age has her foal taken off her and the TB foal fostered onto her. TB foal now with cob mother with all the benefits of steady temeremnt (less likely to kick the foal or run it around) and plentiful milk supply. But what of the cobs foal?

It is shot.

Vets go into stables with mares with a newborn foal on the ground (some haven't even got up from being born) and put a gun on its head and shoots it.

I know this happens as my OH and I have worked in the industry for years. At one stud we worked at one of our mares died at stud in Newmarket after foaling at home with us, we were told by the mares owner that he had arranged for a foster mother, it wasn't until the foal came home that we realised the horrible truth. Theman the pony mare had come from has over athousand mares for this each year. He is in Ireland and supplies lots of studs. For £1,500 he will kill the mares foal and foster yours onto it. All he asks is you return the mare in foal.

This appalls me abut i don't know where to raise the issue. It is just brushed under the carpet and not thought about within the industry.:rolleyes:

I would be interested in you thoughts.

My appologies for the long winded explanation but i wanted to put in the background info

I have never actually heard of it. Ethically it disgusts me. I'll need to look into it further...

That's just to awful for words within TOS    Greed is an evil route to follow.

But why wouldn't they use AI and import semen from the stallions?

I don't think AI foals can be registered with Wetherby's. All coverings must be natural.

Aaah, I see.

Or use the cobs as surrogates?

It seems unbelieveable - a terrible thing to do. Is it not possible for a mare to raise two foals? I know the thoroughbred stud I worked at one holidays many years ago had mares with their own foals at foot.

I don't think a mare would accept another foal.... but I also can't believe they would risk putting a valuable foal in with a mare who might reject it?! Unless they skin the foal etc to introduce it

omg,that is totally disgusting

Thoroughbreds can only be concieved by natural covering. This also applies to embro transfer.This has limited the number of mares a stallion can cover until medical advances now mean a stallion can cover upward of 250 mares a season, with most flat racing stallions covering around 150-175 (as flat covering season is shorter)

Prof. Twink Allen at AHT has been campaigning for AI for years but Wheatherbys and Jockey Club wont hear of it.They say that a small number of stallions could dominate the breed too much. I suggest they take a look at registrations and see the reality anyway... but that is a side issue.
I do want to stress that it is only a small number os selcet mares that have foals taken from them at birth for covering a sost mares wouldn't warrent the cost. The largest trade is definatley in straight foster mares where the foals mother has died.

However as the first secenario is the most distasteful it was that i raised most. It is done purely for monetary gain whereas the other situation does save the TB foal.

Raising 2 foals would be too much for a TB mare and as the cob foal has little cash value (in an industry where a 'cheap' horse is £30k) ther is no avantage to the stud to save the cob's foal.

Chloe H i very much doubt you will find anything to research as it is very much a word of mouth thing in the industry. However, think about how hard it is to find good cobs from Ireland now, why are so many dealers going to Poland and the like to find cobs? Because cobs are worth more as foster mares and big TB studs have huge buying power.

I have just seen chloe h post.

A mare will accept another foal, but you have to be skilled. These mares have their foals skinned and the TB foal wears that as a jacket. The cob/pony mare is the restrained in a special cattle crush and twiched and held to allow the TB to suck. She has this for 24-36 hours. Then she is allowed supervised contact with the foal, but usually once the foster mare's milk has gone through the new foal and she smells it, she will accept it as her own.

Groups of mares and foals grazing together will let other foals suck from them occasionally. I remember one cheeky foal we had pinching sips from all the mares which would allow her until they turned to sniff and realised it wasnt their foal!

The foster pony we had was an excellent mother to our foal and i dread to think what happened to her. She didn't even have a name so we called her Nellie DoDah

I guess I just don't want to believe such a horrible thing :(

There is that. But cobs are also fetching HUGE money as riding horses for the new leisure riding happy hacker just-out-of-riding-lessons folk... a decent cob for a novice is £5/£6K and competition to buy them is huge...

How many of those cob are irish cobs though? Loads are bought in europe and brought into Ireland and sold from there. Why is there so much competion? because ther are less suitable hores. and finally, what is £5/6k when the foal could be worth (and i'm not exageratting) £5/6 million?? a stud fee for an adverage racing sire would be £15000

Please excuse all my spelling, i'm writing so fast and my brain is rushing away with things i want to say, my spelling is sufferring!

Again, I can't argue with you there. Plus, there are many unbacked irish cobs for a lot less money I guess..