please tell me why breeders are more interested in a dogs performance or winning rather than excellent health scores when selecting their future stud dogs etc?

Both are equally important. You need to look at the animal as a whole, not just as a pair of hips/eyes or whatever. You can have perfect hips on a dog that looks nothing like the breed it's meant to be ... equally you could have a stunning-looking dog with avoidable health problems. Neither is suitable breeding stock.

hi jeangenie, what is your breed and do you know much about labs? we went to look at a black stud dog but he had a white spot on his chest do you think that is acceptable for good breeding hips and eye cert very good and very handsome

I don't know much about labs (dalmatians are my breed) but the Labrador Breed Standard allows a small white spot on the chest. :) His showring or working results would also need to be considered, of course, as would his suitability to the bitch's pedigree.

I agree ,when I started looking for a stud for my girl I looked for a dog that was already in field trials ,good hip score /clear eyes ,sound temperment, handsome,no pedigree clashes and who would also enhance an already great pedigree.I wouldn`t breed  my Labs any other way.

no pedigree clashes

  If you mean some of the same names on sire & dam's pedigree,  I would prefer this.

Oh yes, I agree, you certainly want some good names repeated on both sides, but you don't want individuals who're known to have had problems on both sides.

sorry didn`t mean no clashes I ment not as close as brother or father .Both my girls pedigree and stud have some common relitives

Essentially, because a good breeder should be striving to produce a complete package rather than just a set of health cert numbers. To someone with little knowledge of breeding it would seem simple to pick out a show or field trial champion (as appropriate) stud dog with the best health scores and just use him. However, the more you find out about the available stud dogs, the harder the decision can become in your attempts to breed the type of dog you are striving to produce.

I have a reasonable knowledge of field trial lab breeding, and would struggle to find a stud dog that didn't involve me making some level of compromise, at least within the ancestors of the dog. If I can't find any fault in a stud dog or its breeding then I probably don't know enough about him!

Also a dog with a perfect hip score, may not necessarily throw the best hips and there have certainly been dogs with average hips that have consistently thrown better than average progeny.

Whilst a high score would put me off a stud dog (particularly given the breadth of choice in labs) I would not necessarily use a 0/0 stud dog over one with a score of 5/5 if the higher scoring dog had better attributes in other ways.

I have used a dog with a high hipscore.  He was scored in his country of origin and scored excellent but I recently had him BVA scored but it hasn't come back great.

The thing is though with him is that I'm still over the moon that I've used him.  His pups in looks, character etc. are outstanding.  His pups abroad, well about 80% of them have had really good hipscores, and the girls over here that he has been put with also have good hipscores!

Although I'm really upset by his score I don't regret using him one bit.  In my eyes and peoples around he has definitely improved the breed.  He also is lovely looking and has one of the best, if not the best, temperament around and he seems to be passing this onto his offspring.  His eyes etc are all clear as well.

Although I know that some people in certain circles will slate him now his hip score is out there, I know in my heart of hearts that he was worth using.

Just his pups show results in this last 2 weeks show how nice they are.

Terri has won best import register at a show today and a pup from a different bitch won best import puppy at the same show! 

So as someone else put above you've got to look at the dog as a whole and not one aspect.  Even the genetecists working for the KC agree!!!

It may be better to expand your issue without naming people of dogs to see if someone can advice and point you in the right direction. I can't see where a spot would come into health or performance however if it was no no in the breed standard that is someone totally seperate.

I don't know personally or people I would say reputable who would favour performance of health ever.  Collectively healthy, quality and temperament go hand in hand.

From what you have said the dog meets the health tests and is handsome ( hoping you mean quality), his white spots sounds like it is acceptable to the breed standard so what is the issue then?

I don't know that they are necessarily?

Certainly my dogs puppies were from stock that had passed all the relevant health checks for their breed (for more than one generation) and who had proved their worth by successful performance in the fields that I looked for.

Dogs are more than hips, you could have perfect hips/eyes/heart but no drive, stamina or soul.

Excellent hips and a rubbish temperament?

Or hips average/slightly above and a great dog all round? 

At the end of the day, most pups go into pet homes and temperament needs to be one of the most important factors in a stud dog or brood bitch.

here here.

Hi,
I am a little biest here, Good temprement, health, ect; we do our best to get the best,
but! that being in everythink. Good hip parents can throw not so good pups, natures way of not
letting us take full control. I always put good temprement first, An all round dog is the best
bet in my opinion.