Rhumatoid arthritis is an auto-immune disease, there is an awful lot of evidence showing links between that & other auto-immune diseases to vaccines.

heres a link explaining how the immune system must work for vaccination to be a success, always remembering there will always be people/animals that it will never work for. And thats besides the bodies that are immuno compromised. 

http://rex.nci.nih.gov/behindthenews/uis/uisframe.htm

Another thing, you do know that one of the vax given to cats causes site induced fibrosarcomas & in US vets are advised to inject it in the leg rather than the neck, as its easier to amputate?

Heres a study about it in dogs.

http://www.britfeld.com/health/fibrosarcomas_at_presumed_sites_of_injection_in_dogs.pdf

and one about it in cats

http://www.geocities.com/~kremersark/aafp.html

Of course the combinations changed. Parainfluenza, kennel cough, parvo & rabies have been added, some have corona virus added as well. Add to them the different strains of each disease added into them & the totals well into double figures.

And you can add all the ingredients that go into making vaccines, found at link below.

http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm

Haven`t the uk just stopped using vax with mercury in them, long after other countries.

The Intervet annual kennel cough vaccine (the Intrac version should be given every 6-10 months), of course, isn't given at the same time as other vaccinations (to those dogs who have it in the first place), and very few dogs have the rabies vax, so they can't really be included in the mix.

According to Intervet it can be given along with their other vax

>>When Nobivac KC is concurrently administered (i.e. not mixed) with another Intervet vaccine as indicated below, dogs should not be younger than the minimum age recommended for the other Intervet vaccine.

<<<  
I`m assuming from that, it is given alongside other vax.

There are quite a number of dogs getting the rabies vax, those going on holidays with owners, showing in Europe etc so I don`t see why they shouldn`t be included.
As I keep saying, this is a global issue & not just UK, the rest of the world has rabies vax as a requirement.

The manufacturer's instructions at the practice where I work specifically states that Intervet KC vaccine should not be given at the same time as other vaccines. (I've not been there long so I'm still studying the protocol - this is something I made a note of today!)

Although a few dogs (for the UK as a whole, the proportion is very small indeed) are given rabies vaccine, is it given at the same time as their regular boosters, or at another visit? Unless given at the same time it can't count as part of a 'cocktail'.

>The manufacturer's instructions at the practice where I work specifically states that Intervet KC vaccine should not be given at the same time as other vaccines. (I've not been there long so I'm still studying the protocol - this is something I made a note of today!)

Really?  I've never heard that before JG.  Our vets are giving Intervet KC with Lepto annually and KC with the full cocktail every 3 years.  In fact, so are a few others.  Are these official instructions from the manu?

Thanks for confirming that S :)

>Are these official instructions from the manu?

Yes. :)

What I`ve copied & pasted is the manufacturers(Intervet) instructions J/G

Don`t see how it can be different in the practice you work at

>>Although a few dogs (for the UK as a whole, the proportion is very small indeed<<

21,227 cats & dogs entered UK upto the end of April this year only thats a very large few in my book

Over here rabies given the same time as other vax are. And from what I`ve read of pet passport pets in UK its given same time as other vax, so yes, it is part of the cocktail

It could be that the manufacturers give different instructions to the professionals than they put on their websites for laymen to read (and maybe misunderstand!), Christine.

21,227 dogs and cats? Compared to the 18-odd million dogs and cats in the country? Yes, it's a very small percentage. And of course some of those will be repeat travellers. :)

And no, rabies isn't generally given as part of the routine cocktail here - it could be many months between the regular booster and time for the rabies booster.

>>>21,227 dogs and cats? Compared to the 18-odd million dogs and cats in the country<<<

Well that just makes a mockery of the bva report, only 4000 dogs in that............

Like I keep saying, its a global issue & rabies vax on the continent, generally worldwide is given with the others. And of course in comparison pets worlwide outnumber those in UK. I`d like someone with a pet passport to jump in & say when their pet gets its rabies.

>Well that just makes a mockery of the bva report, only 4000 dogs in that............

Why? The two are completely different topics. 4000 random individuals in a study is an enormous number, compared to the couple of hundred that are involved in most. Statistically 1000 is the minimum needed to give a reasonably representative result, although of course the more the better.

Regarding the rabies vaccine; there are a couple of dozen boosters done each week at the surgery, and there has only been 1 rabies vaccine used in a month. And it was done as a separate visit because the cat's other boosters weren't due for about 4 months.

4000 dogs in a study out of 18 million pets & they only managed to do a questionnaire study based on the owners answers

I`ll stick with the other studies (plural) ;) I`ve read

:( I don't know how to explain to you, again, Christine without you accusing me of being condescending but you really don't seem to understand how all studies are conducted.  Did Schultz study 18 million pets to get his results, well it would have been more in the US :rolleyes:

Very few people replied to the Kennel Club health questionnaire that was sent to all parent breed clubs a few years ago. If people don't complete questionnaires accurately they're the ones possibly skewing the results.

>they only managed to do a questionnaire study based on the owners answers

Who else knows the animals better? Did you reply?

>If people don't complete questionnaires accurately they're the ones possibly skewing the results.

Of course with such a large study it doesn't matter much.  For every owner that skewed their dogs health issues up there is quite likely to be one skewing theirs down.  With a good number such as this there is every chance they will balance out well.

>only 4000 dogs

I think you really need to brush up on your study skills Christine :)  If you have ever done any studies you will know this is a more that adequate figure to ensure extremely low rates of coincidence when extrapolating up.

Typical condescending remark Isabel :rolleyes:

I don't think so, you have an obvious missundertanding on this subject although admittedly JG has, typically ;), explained it better.

Yes, our dog was given a rabies vaccine at the same time as a booster last year and we are definitely in the UK!
As I said on an earlier post, different practices throughout the UK !
Maria

That's interesting, Maria. So he had his first rabies vaccine at the same time as his regular boosters, or did you have the timings altered to make them coincide for ease of remembering? Annual boosters are naturally only needed every 12 months, and people of course have all year to decided whether to pet passport their animal, so the rabies booster could be due at any time during the year.

The rabies is usually given to puppies with their second/last puppy vax over here & I believe in US as well as other parts of europe

ps my ex vet used to *adjust* the timing of my dogs vax so they`d all correspond ie giving earlier to match them all up

Jeangenie
The vet suggested that was what we should do - nothing to do with us wanting to remember dates- didn't have any timings altered at all.

Even this year on the day of his booster, the vet wanted to do KC we refused as he never went into kennels. The vet also checked to see if he needed rabies again, as it happened he didn't need it this time - but our vet would definitely have no qualms about giving them all together!

And I do have the vaccination card in front of me with the dates of his rabies and booster last year - one and the same 15/3/05 .

As I mentioned in an earlier post, some vets would close without the income of boosters - I believe this is why there is so much over vaccination.

It would be refreshing to find a vet that only gave necessary vaccines!

Maria
  

>some vets would close without the income of boosters

Then why would a vet choose to lose money by doing the rabies vaccine at the same time? After all, if he insisted (as Moonmaiden's does) that there's a month between the two, he can get a second consultation fee instead of just the one. Vet's income from boosters only falls if people don't come every year for the lepto booster - the difference in cost between doing just that and doing a 'full' booster is negligible.

Perhaps your vet is trying to save you money, not him. The more times he has you coming to the surgery, the more money he makes.

errr.....they don't lose money by giving the rabbies at the same time, we were still charged the full amount for each vaccine!!!
Maria

No consultation fee for the Rabies vaccines or any other vax at our vets If I had insisted on having the Rabies done at the same time as the routine ones(done after the titre test showed he needed them)the price would have been the same

You might be interested to know M/M that theres new research being undertaken to find out the true doi for rabies, you`ll probably know it used to be anually but now its only every 3yrs but theres evidence immunity is a lot longer & they`re hoping to prove it once & for all with this new study :)

Heres the info   http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/RABIES-CHALLENGE-FUND.HTM

Thanx for trhe link Christine just hasd a quick look & bookmarked it for when I have a bit of time

>>the difference in cost between doing just that and doing a 'full' booster is negligible.<<

Hmmm so cost wise theres no difference between giving a solo vax than a cocktail of vax? Can`t see how that works do you know how much the vaccines cost the vet J/G?

Rjj has a PP & my surgery will not give rabies along with the routine Vax & insist on a month clear at least. He will not have any other Vax except rabies(to keep up his PP)unless his bloodtests show otherwise

Thanks M/M :)

You are right Christine, I have the vaccination card in front of me and our dog had both his booster and rabies on the same day! We live in Cheshire and as far as I'm aware it was still the UK the last time I looked!
Maria

JG
Lots of vets seem to differ on this then, I was offered the KC vaccine along with Spangler's booster (the one that killed him) I did turn it down though as he didn't go into kennels - obviously different practices throughout the UK!
Something needs to be done!

I'm quite sure that vets do differ. I'm not saying that this particular practice is correct - what I am saying is that they are following the most recent instructions that they've received from the manufacturers.

Do you know when these instructions were issued JG? 

I didn't notice, Spender, and I'm not back in the surgery for a week. If I remember I'll look it up, but it depends how busy we are as to whether I'll have time.

Actually our vet wasn't following Virbac's instructions - quite the contrary!
Maria 

They have to be over 12 weeks old for the Rabies vaccs and only those wanting a Pet Passport woudl be doing it.

Yes thats right B/L, thats when pups here get their final puppy vax & the rabies vax is given as well.

I understood that multi vaccines in their present form were comparatively recent calmstorm - I read it but afraid I don't have a year to give you when things changed, maybe someone else knows.  My eldest dog who is now nearly 14 hasn't been vaccinated for the last six years and my 12 month old will be titre tested rather than routinely boostered.

I have a memory of the dog being given two injections, but thats so long ago now it could have been for something completly unrelated! Long term memory is going now, chasing after the short term one ;) But, my point is, i just wondered if having boosters for so many things in one injection could be causing the problem.

Certainly must give the immune system more to cope with.

Indeed, but what matters is whether the immune system can cope with it.

Very good point indeed Isabel and therefore essential that the dog is in excellent health and the vet adheres to the vaccine manufacturer's contra indications.  Also that the dog is not being given vaccinations it doesn't need.

Well said Annie :)

I think most people would agree that is the ideal, Annie :) although of course the benefits to even a compromised dog in a high risk situation should not be ignored when the owner and vet are determining which course of action to take.
I wonder how many of those dogs that Calmstorm mentioned coming into rescue are in tip top health or who have, perhaps, been vaccinated more recently than the recommended period by their erstwhile owners and yet we don't seem to see rescues reported significant numbers of poor reactions.

>I wonder how many of those dogs that Calmstorm mentioned coming into rescue ........... have, perhaps, been vaccinated more recently than the recommended period by their erstwhile owners

That's an extremely good point. I believe all rescue dogs are fully vaccinated before rehoming - even though it's perfectly possible that it's only a few weeks since their last booster? These are surely the ones that are most likely to show adverse reactions if over-boosting was a major problem generally.

It's not only the ideal Isabel, it is the only way the vaccine manufacturers sanction the use of their products.  Any vet and/or owner deciding to ignore that are acting outside the agreed usage of the drug.

I would imagine that rescue centres, like many vets it would seem, would probably put most vaccine reactions down to other causes, especially if the animals had previously come from a bad environment.

Yes, the manufacturers could not be held to account for any such use but that does not prevent a vet using his professional judgement.  This is something he does every day in decisions like whether to operate or not on less than fit animals without sharing the risk with a third party.  As long as his decision can be justied in the risk/benefit ratio he cannot be accused of negligence, only if he has acted against the ratio.  However this is going off track as Labrador has already stated that the neighbours dog was very healthy.

Seeing as how the vet is likely to deny any vaccine involvement in the animals death or ill health anyway, where does that leave the poor dog owner?  I would be extremely upset, to put it mildly, if a vet decided to vaccinate my dog against the vaccine manufacturer's advice and I ended up with a dead or seriously damaged dog.