What is the general consensus amongst you breeders about tail docking?  My breed and indeed my bitch is docked and when we purchased her it seemed to be 'standard' that puppies were docked.  I am aware that legislaton is being put together to ban docking but for me with a bitch on day 56 I am unsure what to do.  I have spoken to my vets who advise me that people don't expect docked pups these days, but farmers and shooting people seem to want them done.  As this is a first litter and I have a couple of people expressing an interest in the pups but by no means are the pups 'homed' I feel unsure as to what to do.  If they were going as pets I wouldn't have them 'done' but as the stud and bitch 5 generation pedigree is primarily working, it seems absurd not to dock them.  I have spoken to the council for docked breeds and they have told me how to go about finding a vet to dock them, however I am still very much undecided.  I know this is a very emotive issue but please any advise would be gratefully received and considered.

Hi Clair, there is nobody that can answer this for you. You will hear peoples personal opinions but in the end it's up to you. It remains legal for the time being to have your pups docked by a vet, so it's your call. Best wishes whatever you decide.

Dawn R.

I had a little springer bitch come for training the other day - the owner wants her for shooting, but she had a tail almost as long as she was

The owner has asked the vet to dock her late, as they've already got one full tailed dog whose tail is forever bleeding when out.    The vet has agreed, but it would have been much kinder in my book for the breeder to have done her at 3 days.

Of course it's your call, as Dawn says, but you should bear in mind the work the dog is going to do later on.

Jo

Hi

As allready said it is up to you whether you have them docked or not but you could be leaving it to late to find a vet that will do it.

They have to be done preferably by 3 days old. My own vet wouldnt do it. The one the council of Docked breeds gave me was far to far away but I was able to get them done with the stud dogs vet slightly closer to home.

I didnt have my last litter done because of not being able to find a vet to do it. It definatly effected my sales as quite a few people didnt want a terrier with a tail. A anti docking vet will say people dont expect a docked tail these days but having a docked breed and talking to folk about it I think people do still want them docked.

I have spoken to my vets who advise me that people don't expect docked pups these days, but farmers and shooting people seem to want them done.

I don't know about that. I'm not involved in any docked breed, but have a friend who does one and all the stories I hear all the time (several here on CD too) is that the PET buyers will not buy tailed dogs of traditionally docked breeds. My friend said every single pet enquiry she had (just a few weeks ago) started with "Are they docked?"

It's probably 6 of one and half a dozen of another. Don't you have people lined up by now as buyers as the bitch is so close? Best to ask them to get a general opinion.

I have a docked breed and Im not totally anti docking however
for every 100 enquiries I get only 1% will be for an undocked pup.

The GP don't want docked tails because certain vets on certain websites and other newsgroups lie and say that is is banned then the GP take that as law!

I still have my pups docked legally by a qualified vet but you have to go the CDB who then put you in touch with a vet that will do it.

Actually in 13 years of owning and breeding my dogs only one person didn't want a docked tail so she waited 4 years until I bred one of my girls who had 2 natural bobtails.

It's very simple clair, personally I think particularly working breeds, should be allowed to be docked (nothing worse than a ripped tail) if your pups are docked they will attract working clients and pet homes.  Undocked they will only attract pet homes who will always say, "I am so pleased they are not docked" you will sell your pups either way, but just attract different cliental. Most owners of 'pet dogs' as your vet suggests really don't seem to care.

I have a springer and personally prefer them docked - my pup came from a breeder who works his dogs and so all the pups were docked.
My dog is a pet but I still think certain breeds (such as a lively springer) are at high risk of tail injury just being pets.

I must say, I do get a few frowns when they spot her tail

I prefer docked breeds to stay docked just because i'm used to them being docked, one more thing though i believe it should be done at birth because i tell you now a puppy can feel whether it's wrapped by a vet or cut they can feel it and will cry.

not true susan20 have you seen a litter docked? when the vet put on the tail band (3rd day after birth) the puppy didnt even notice and the tail fell off a couple of days later. However,when he cut the dew claws with scissors they screamed the place down. its the dew claws that hurt not the tail but no one seems to care about that. i think they should cut dew claws with a local anaesthetic.

I have had Rotts for 16 years all docked so far. My father has an undocked bitch Rott and I have to say its lovely to see her wag it happily. My boys have to wag their bottoms and cant communicate so well their happiness without their tails. When docking is banned I will still have Rottweilers, I love the breed full stop, tail or not.  I have seen docking done both being cut and banded, have to say banding was less stressful for the puppy, but the cutting was unpleasant for the pups, I would not want to see that again, ever!!

all the best xx

Hi

when I had my russells docked they cryed as much when the vet checked there mouths for a cleth pallet as they did when the tails came of.

They cried even more a week later when I cut there nails for the first time.

It isnt the pain it is more the annoyance of being handled and taken away from mum. On both occasions they instantly stoped and started to suckle the min they were put back with mum.

Wendy

Hi, I recently had a litter which I chose to have docked and I now believe it was the right thing to do. At the time I was a little unsure and it was my partner that insisted. Every enquiry wanted a pup with the tail docked. I was present at the docking, they were 2 days old and they made more noise being picked up than when the tail was docked and definately having the dew claws removed was more upsetting for me and them. This is just my experience and I am sure there will be others who would disagree so its something you will have to decide and pretty quickly as time is running out. good luck with your pups and enjoy them while you can as time goes so fast and they are off your hands before you know it.

I can only repeat what's already been said regarding personal choice but having recently had a litter and deciding not to dock I had no problem with finding homes. I had some people waiting before I decided to breed again anyway, although at this point I was still uncertain what to do. One of the main reasons for the uncertaintly was the number of other breeders who told me that I would have problems finding suitable homes as they so rarely had people interested in undocked puppies. I spoke to the people on my list, all of whom were happy to have an undocked puppy, before I mated my girl. I also had several enquiries specifically for undocked puppies once word travelled that I would not be docking again. In the end I could pick and choose with the homes. For me in the end I felt I had to do what I felt was the right thing and take the chance. 

its the dew claws that hurt not the tail but no one seems to care about that. i think they should cut dew claws with a local anaesthetic.

No way. FOUR of my current pups had rear dewclaws and I snipped them off myself, they were of varying sizes. Did it at 2 days, not one of the pups made any noise whatsoever!

I beleive that rear dews are often not attached and really vestigal, as opposed to the front ones, which are mushc more functional and strongly attached meaning cutting through bone.

Thankfully we don't get rear ones in my breed (though buhunds get them) and no-one woudl dream of removing front ones, as they d0 in many breeds.

These varied -some were, some were not. With one pup I definitely did have to cut through bone. I wished afterwards I'd taken a picture of the claws before I binned them, I showed them to my hubby (who went green LOL) and they were all such diffent sizes, the biggest two really looked like a couple of toes.

they are toes goldmali! are you saying i imagined my pups screaming? i thought only a vet could cut claws?

No I'm saying young pups often scream for just being picked up and handled -mine didn't scream for any of it. At 2 days they didn't make a sound for having dewclaws removed. They didn't as much as flinch.

No dewclaws can be done by anyone, it is only docking that was made ileagal for a anyone else to do and ony legal by a vet.

thanks for clearing that up for me brainless

Sorry  I have my dogs docked and  I stopped having the dew claws done a few years ago as they wd. scream their heads off when they were being done, when the tails were docked (always cut and never banded) they hardly made a sound.  I also feel that the claws should have been lncluded if they were so sure that tail docking is so painful because in the 13 years
that I've had my breed I've been more upset and as have the pups when the claws have been done!

It is v much a matter of personal choice - but I would be amazed if the GP expected them to be undocked! How many undocked dogs do you meet out when walking. You dont say the breed but talk about working lines, so I would have thought any that might be worked should be docked whilst we still can

Can you have a local done for dewclaws if you are willing to pay, or is it dangerous for puppies that age? If I breed I would like the dewclaws off, but don't like the idea of the screaming!

The owner has asked the vet to dock her late, as they've already got one full tailed dog whose tail is forever bleeding when out.    The vet has agreed, but it would have been much kinder in my book for the breeder to have done her at 3 days.

Isn't it illegal to have them docked after 3 days??

No, therapeutic docking (because of injury) can be done at any age, like any other surgery.

Sharon my dog was 'docked' due to injury at 10 months old - it was called amputation and was as difficult and painful as any amputation you could imagine.

For this reason, I would never have (and haven't had) another working dog that wasn't docked.  Our pups were docked at 2 days old, painlessly and trouble free, although they did cry from being picked up and the rest was all over very qickly indeed.

If these pups are of working breeding and are intended for working homes, then they definitely need docking. (Just take a third of the tail off). The majority of potential purchasers of a springer for working purposes will not consider an undocked litter. This may sound a bit strong, but nothing screams 'back-yard breeder' more than undocked litter of 'working' springers.

The problem is at 3 days of age you don't know which would be the most suitable to go to a working home so it would be hard to decide which taails to keep on!!  Whoever has decided on this hasn't thought things through.

Amazing that the government do something on docking but not on things that are endangering people's lives such as the numerous killers, rapists etc. that are escaping from open prisons or being allowed to stay in the country!

* Deleted

There ARE people who work their dogs who are not only quite happy to have undocked pups but will actively search them out.

Of course injuries DO occur on undocked working animals just as they occur on undocked non working animals and on dogs of breeds traditionally NOT docked including Dalmations, Great Danes, GSDs and Labradors, specimens of which I know had to be docked due to tail damage.

Your call, your choice, there are very many people who WANT undocked puppies in traditionally docked breeds but cannot find ones except from those "producers" of puppies who do not dock due to financial reasons..........

Good reputable breeders who do not dock and carry out health tests are in short supply and are booked ages ahead.......

Good luck with whatever you decide.