Although my dog is OK with his Gentle Leader headcollar, I decided to buy a Dogmatic because I thought it was a better design and would be more comfortable for him.  As he is only 12 months old and not fully grown, Dogmatic asked me to give them two measurements which I did and they recommended a size 3.

When the collar arrived, I was pleased with the workmanship and the fact that it seemed to fit snugly on his face and didn't ride up or move about.  However, the dog absolutely hated it and wouldn't move with it on - and this is a dog that is pretty much OK with his Gentle Leader so the headcollar concept isn't new to him.  It seemed that the metal rings were right at the corner of his mouth and the loop that the lead attaches to kept ending up in his mouth.  I also found the buckle fastening to be very fiddly, being so small and me having a very hairy dog! :)

I gave up and went back to the Gentle Leader but decided to write to Dogmatic and tell them of my experience.  They say that it sounds like the collar is the wrong size as the rings should be about half way down from the top of the muzzle to the bottom of the jaw and that there should be no way the loop that the lead attaches to should go in the dog's mouth.  However, they refused to exchange the collar as it had been used, albeit very briefly.  Now I know I'm not the brainiest person on the planet but I'm sure I can take two measurements correctly and they knew it was for a golden retriever so isn't it their fault if they recommended the wrong size?

Putting it down to experience but disappointed and personally wouldn't recommend the Dogmatic now.

Hi Annie ns,

I've used the Dogmatic before and recommended it to a friend and we both think very highly of it BUT both experienced the same problem in that the loop to which the lead ring attaches was too long and ended up in the dogs' mouths.  I had mine shortened by a saddler and the problem was resolved.  

Neither of us had the problem with the rings pinching the corners of the mouth so that part IMO definitely sounds like a wrong size for your dog whereas I feel the other problem is/was a design fault.   I told Dogmatic about it at the time (it was a few years ago) and they offered to adjust the headcollar FOC but it was going to take a few weeks for them doing it so I had it done myself which then rendered the guarantee null and void.

The one they initially recommended to me was too large for my breed and I had to go down 1.5 sizes - quite a lot out then on their recommendations :rolleyes: but I only tried it on the dog for a minute and realised before going out that it wasn't right so it was in "as new" condition when returned for replacement.

regards, Teri

I emailed them when i 1st got a dogmatic as i had exactly the same problem i got told basically they had never heard of this before and it was a case of following the rules for introducing a head collar to a dog. But she'd already been used to the halti so this certainly wasn't a new thing for us either!!

I always thought that the leather is too bulky and doesn't slide freely as it should even when softened, i have the old style dogmatic if anyone remembers they are slightly different in that they were joined together by little studs the new ones are entirely stitched and the leather appears/feels to be different. I have no problem at all with the old style one (same size as my newish one).

That 'new style leather' dogmatic got relegated as a spare as neither my danes would tolerate it and bought a new nylon one which is great no problems at all.

I'm getting the same sort of response mygirl. :)  When you say the new nylon one, do you mean the padded material type?  If so that is the one I have.

Thanks Teri,

So their sizing recommendations seem to leave a lot to be desired then! :)  Glad to hear you got yours sorted privately in the end.  Just goes to show that they were aware of this issue a while back - wonder why they haven't amended the design?  Maybe a lot of people just stop using them and don't bother to let them know why.

I have a feeling that they changed hands a year or so ago - but not 100% sure on that.  Certainly at the time I bought mine the only model available was made of leather and cost around £25 but then a year or thereabouts after that I noticed them advertising the leather model at £17/18 or so and a short while later they brought out coloured fabric ones.

Certainly I did make them aware of the issue with the safety loop going in the mouth but they told me at the time that they'd never had that complaint before.   Which makes me think perhaps a lot of folks don't get back to them and either put up with it or stop using it ...    I can't honestly complain about mine - the quality of leather and finish was superb and although I'm not using it now, I'm really glad I have it :)

regards, Teri

I don't think they changed hands so much Teri more that they stopped making them and someone else makes them now on their behalf.
One of mine chewed through the loop and i called to ask could they fix it as i know they had previously for someone else i knew but they said they don't deal with that anymore.

So when yours chewed through the loop mygirl, did they tell you then you had the wrong size as the dog shouldn't be able to do that?

No, I've not got a problem with the quality either - very good.  Think you're right about people not telling them, I wouldn't normally but I was just so disappointed. :(

No Annie and it isnt the wrong size anyway but the loops are in my eyes excessively long when it doesn't need to be really. I just got a local saddler to replace the loop.

The reason I asked that is because they have said to me "Your dog should not be able to get the loop into their mouth, if they can this would indicate that the sizing is too big"

Hiya,

I have found and know of others that have found Dogmatic customer services brilliant.  It does sound like the headcollar was the wrong size - I don't think the sizing problem was your fault of theirs, they just give you the size they think it will be with the measurements given, all though of course they can't always get it right for every dog as happened with my Dobe who needed a different size than they thought she would - bit of an odd shaped head :-) I would say it's down to the owner to judge by trying it on if it fits correctly and they do send clear instructions as to how it should fit with the head collar. I tried the original one they sent on her and needed a smaller one, they exchanged it no problem and very quickly and they usually say it is no problems to exchange it up-front.

I would maybe try and phone again and ask to speak to the manager and calmly expalin the situation and say that the headcollar is still in new condition if it is? and ask for an exchange again, I can't see why they wouldn't do this unless there was a long time in between you receiving it and letting them no about the problem as their policy is to exchange until they get the right size. :-)

Karen

Hi Karen,

I'm sorry but I think that if a company actively encourages you to provide certain measurements to ensure a correct fit, then wrong sizing shouldn't be an issue at all.  They also knew what breed my dog was.  As I said, the collar seemed to fit well originally and it was only when I started trying to walk him that I realised the problem.  As for the clear instructions provided, my leaftlet only states that the collar should fit snugly and not move about or ride up - on trying on the collar, these were all correct and therefore I had no indication the collar wasn't suitable.  Maybe they should also be giving guidelines as to the positioning of the rings and the length of the lead loop as if they had given me the information they are providing now, I would have realised straight away the collar wasn't right and could have returned it.

The collar is in very good condition but not in new condition as I had cut off the little dogmatic tag hanging from the lead loop.  They have already made it clear they are not prepared to exchange because the collar has been used.