Fortunately, I know a trainer who charges much less than that and trains in a way that I wholeheartedly approve of and enjoy.

However, if I didn't and I was getting a puppy, I'd go along and observe whatever classes I could find.  If I found another treasure, I'd happily pay up what has been quoted if that was what it cost.  The chances of finding two good trainers in the same area and being able to choose between them on cost seem pretty remote to me!  :-D

And, do you think that perhaps your dentist doesn't have your interests at heart, Michelle?  Because perhaps  you think s/he is only looking after your teeth because s/he is getting paid.  Your doctor, perhaps you think, is only looking after your health because s/he is getting paid (if not by you, by the government).  Your psychologist only talks to you for 1 hr a week if you're in therapy, because you are paying him/her, and probably not because they love the sound of your voice or because they enjoy their job, or amazingly, because they are any good at it.

Don't be ridiculous - a service is a service and it deserves renumeration. 

Perhaps we shouldn't pay school teachers?  After all, obviously they are just doing it to get paid, not because they love kids!!  And what about nurses, obviously they don't care about their patients because they're being paid and just doing it for the money.

Why are you only interested in the ability of the trainer as an afterthought?? Surely that's the most important thing when choosing a trainer!!

* deted to apply with TOS

> Do you know what id prefer to go somewhere where people arent trying to make "money" out of dogs.

I couldn't agree more, but around here (not far from Windsor) trying to find a 'club' is difficult.  The only thing that seems to be available are these courses - and having spoken to various trainers, they say there is little call for ongoing classes - most owners just want to do basic pet obedience and that's it....

But if they were local dog training clubs, run by average pet dog owners who decided to make themselves into trainers, then I think you probably got what you paid for.

Oh well that's me well & truly put in my place All my dogs are & have been pets first including my Ticket obedience bitch(the second dog I ever owned & the second dog I worked in obedience), my multiple WT/Schutzhund &/or breed(including a breed champion)dogs, my sheeptrial winning, Breed & Obedience dog & my rescue X breed who was my foot warmer General-so that makes me a pet owner who made myself into a trainer without any fancy letters after my name.& of course that means a cr*p trainer.

Anything I do with my dogs outside of them being being my pets is for our joint enjoyment(even the breed shows)not just an ego trip for me.

hmmm i can think of tons of FANTASTIC trainers with no poncy letters after their names,that dont claim to be "behavoiurists" yet know dogs inside out & have actually "achieved " things with their training,both with their own dogs & people who train with them

So can I Mish & I have learnt loads all for free from them too.

And so can I - but, hey, did you know that when it gets cloudy, it usually rains?

Please, stop leaping to conclusions about what I'm saying and read what I've ACTUALLY said, instead of deciding you'd like a nice little argument, so you'll make out I said something I didn't.

But you see I am an "average"pet dog owner(whatever one of those is) I have no special talents in training dogs just common sense & lots of advice given to me at little or no cost by experienced dog people(None of whom had BSc, MA etc after their names & some of whom were(according to your way of thinking)years ahead of their times & they could read & understand dogs way before the "behaviourizts"appeared on the scene) This included teaching me over 40 years ago to train my dogs by the unrestrained method(ie no leads used) with reward based training(toys/titbits) No clickers of course back then in the dark ages, but a consistant verbal command instead. Oh dear how very stone age of me, still at least I have never had a pulling on the lead problem so typical of modern pet owners.

In this area with have a"behaviourizt"fully qualified with a BSc etc after her name. Her record with her own dogs is well questionable. She obtained a different breed puppy to her two existing dogs to"win"& go to the top in obedience. It never happened because despite all her wealth of qualifications her two older dogs killed the puppy(One of these dogs had a known problem with her new puppy's breed after attacking & injuring more than one unprovoked) She has a another new dog of the same breed as the dead puppy, but it lives totally separately from her one remaining older dog(which she has planned to breed off despite it's know behavioural problem & poor hips-but didn't because of a medical problem that meant she had to be spayed). Her courses venue cost nothing as they are held on common land & are IMHO expensive at over £10 a time-but it is a business. One to one is £80 an hour for the behaviourizt side(quite cheap but it was only £30 last year !)

Only thing is some(well quite a lot) of her"pupils" end up at our club & have a very poor level of behaviour & their training by their owners is sadly lacking. Obviously she hadn't "educated"them very well over the 10 weeks of their course

I think for me the best trainer I know of is Anne Bussey - she's a trainer and a behaviourist, and has done extremely well in Obedience and also won the Kennel Club Championships Working Trials Tracker Dog Stake and come second last year! She's someone I really admire and each time I've spent time training with her i've taken away so much :) She's someone who can pass knowledge on to her pupils too.

I know of another who is meant to be very good, who to my knowledge has no letters after her name <g> and that is Lynn Luckock although I've not met her or trained with her.

One of the best older common sense trainers as i call them has to be Joyce Stranger. Lovely lady who has a wealth of knowlege :)

Lindsay
x

yes both fabulous trainers

And, Moonmaiden, do you think that everyone else has achieved all these things with their dogs too??

Incredible, I must say.

Because, if you read what I actually wrote, you'll see that it said "run by your AVERAGE pet dog owner". 

Obviously, you are far from average or the dogs I pass in the street every day would all have won tickets in obedience...

Moonmaiden, you are not on your own here. I too have been told by a very well known rescue centre and a well known trainer from long ago that I am not average. Being told you are above average is a compliment.:-)

From what I've seen in the streets, the best dog trainers are the down-and-outs, because their dogs are all beautifully behaved, and I very much doubt whether they go to training classes, expensive or otherwise.

Perhaps it's because their owners have time for them?

I've often thought that! I wish I could get mine to stay like the average Big Issue seller's dog. <g>

My view is that our understanding of dogs has moved on, just as our understanding of children has :)
As in all things, this can bring both improvements and problems as those involved adapt and change. Many years ago, people did n't always know how to deal with a problem dog, or that medical problems sometimes caused training problems, and those dogs were often simply disposed of.

The world has changed - whether for better or worse it's hard to say sometimes! - but dogs are living in such stressed times as we humans are these dsays. Many only get a quick walk in the park at the weekend, perhaps are left alone all day as both owners work ... in the past dogs may have had more time given to them, and  people had more patience. I doubt if many had separation problems for instance, which these days is a huge problem.

Many people on this thread are, I think, not your average pet owner with little or no understanding of dogs....;)

just as our understanding of children has

I don't think that children today are as well behaved, considerate and respectful to others as the children of my generation were!
Dr Spock and his free liberal thinking was the 'new way of thinking' in the between years and we're now all paying the price.

Val, I actually agree with you here :P I think many children of today behave appallingly. \I find it quite distressing and loathe yob culture.

My view is that the 60s changed so much; those 60's children then had children and so on. I think there are many other factors - even down to music which can so inspire generations, and also things like computer games. My nieces rarely pick up a book which grieves me no end, and most children seem to by pass the age of innocence where they used to love ponies and playing games, and go straight from toddlers to wanting a boyfriend!!

I am sure Dr Spock had something to do with it but I also think it's far more than that...there's no sense of - self worth, self respect, or doing something for it's own sake. It's all about doing things for money or being "streetwise" and getting designer clothes. I also think TV shows some things as being normal when they are not. Our society generally is nowadays quite trashy and sad.

But, that said, would we want to go back to the times when children were beaten if they couldn't learn; when asthmatics were thought of as lazy; when we didn't really understand dyslexia? As I say, there's good and bad i feel in "progress" . 

I do feel these days we do know more about how to help children with problems and the same goes for dogs.

Lindsay
x

>or doing something for it's own sake. It's all about doing things for money

And doesn't this start in the home, where children have to do chores for their pocket money? There seems to be little idea of doing things simply because they need to be done - there always has to be some other personal incentive.

But then we only hear about the children where things have gone wrong and very rarely do we get to hear about the thousands and thousands of "ordinary" children who live within the rules and "play the game" - after all they are not newsworthy and don't sell newspapers or pull in high viewing figures. My own children are grown up now ( or at least over the age of 18! :)) and  have turned out to be children we are very proud of. We have never had a lot of money, fancy clothes or loads of posessions but what we have has been worked for and valued, but most of all we have had time for our children and an interest in all that they do so they have grown up with a sense of worth and value of themselves which is one of the most precious gifts you can give anyone.

i'm more than a little relieved to learn i'm not the only "renegade" who doesn't go to puppy classes! not that i'm decrying them, i hasten to add nor the benefits of training but somehow, despite my pig-ignorance and lack of (dog-related) letters after my name, i've always managed to turn potty pups into surprisingly well mannered dogs. quite how still remains a mystery, mind, when i realise that my avoidance of puppy classes is at odds with what most people do!

Sarah Whitehead is a very well respected dog trainer and behaviourist.  She works with Peter Neville; and is at the forefront of dog behaviour and dog training today.  I would gladly pay the money asked to attend one of Sarah's classes - but only if Sarah was taking it.  I wouldn't be happy about paying that amount of money to somebody that she has trained and doesn't have the experience that she has.  So, in my case I would pay for the experience and knowledge of Sarah but not want to pay the same amount for somebody that she has trained.  I am paying for Sarah's expertise and that, in my opinion, is not something you can put a price on.  She is also very approachable and has a natural affinity with animals.  This is also something that a lot of trainers don't have.

A few of the KC registered clubs I have visited still use the "jerk" method of training heelwork.  I personally don't like that side of training.  It depends on what training club you go to if you get a good, reward based trainer or not.  I wouldn't imagine that this would happen with Sarah's franchise as you will be taught a specific way to train the dogs and everyone will have to adhere to that way until "Sarah" changes it!!!

I think that most people that post on this board are not average dog owners.  The average dog gets a couple of walks a day and doesn't do anything like agility, obedience or any other dog related sports.  It is dog enthusiasts that tend to do more with their dogs and I think that is where the majority of people on this board would fit into. 

I believe that it is very important for somebody who has their first puppy to attend puppy classes and my reasons for this are as follows.  You meet people from all walks of life and can learn from one another; you are setting your puppy up with the best possible start; you become involved in a group that can help you when things go a bit askew (like the Kevin phase!!!).  Its not a bad thing that people go to puppy classes.  It should be viewed as positive.  I live for the day when every dog owner really knows how dogs think; they know how to care for their dogs properly; they exercise them effectively; they train them using reward methods etc., etc.,  Until we get some continuity and uniformity in the KC registered classes I would rather recommend people go to somewhere like Sarah's classes where I know that they will be operated using the same standards no matter where they are based.

Annie