Craigles, surely children who have been brought up in beautiful, well balanced homes do not end up in childrens' homes? 

Oh i wish that were true Oldilocks, we have a lad of 15 placed in one of our units at the moment that goes to a private school and even now his parents still pay for this because they want the best for him.  Social Services pay for the transport for him and this requires a carer i.e me to escort him everyday in a taxi, if I told you the taxi bill per month it wouldn't go down well with some!  I have met them albeit briefly and they are professional people. The child was very naughty is all i can say and nothing the parent can do will prevent him from doing what he is doing, I cannot obviously speak openly about individuals on here but it is a very sad state some of the cases we get in.  I have met numerous parents who either visit the child or we escort the child on a contact visit be it with Nan,Grandad, Mum, Dad or siblings, I often feel we invade their space as it's a supervised contact but it has to be done and everything noted about the visit i.e whether any inappropriate behaviours happen etc., There is a vast range of children out there in childrens homes and some only get there as adults have never respected them so they dont' know how to respect adults and sometimes if we can get these to even say please and thank you it makes my job worthwhile.  I can remember taking a young lad shopping once to get a whole new set of clothes as he came in rags and he went in the changing room and came out with the new clothes on top of his old clothes as he didn't know you had to take your old clothes off to try them on he had never received new clothes in his life and he was 13, that boy was so happy and grateful it brought tears to my eyes to watch him dancing around the room when we got the clothes home and I ironed some of them for him. 

THere was a girl of about 14 where I work today and her and her male friends all thought it was hilarious!  What a sad world we live in

>Craigles, surely children who have been brought up in beautiful, well balanced homes do not end up in childrens' homes? 

Well then, as my middle son ended up in care due to his poor behaviour (and THAT is putting it very mildly) I guess my home wasn't a beautiful, well balanced home :) (Mind you, it seems to have been for the other 4 children....)

;)

But what is beautiful and well-balanced is in the eye of the beholder :) (AND, of course, in the eye of the individual child ;) ) :D

Daisy

OK here's my two pennies worth:

1) Parents need to stop talking to children like they are adults and are able to understand things to the same level that we do - they don't!

2) Children need to be treat like children with regards everything in life and not over-indulged with clothes, computers, toys etc etc.

3) Children need to have set boundaries and parents need to inforce them.

4) Parents should act responsibly around their children - no swearing, no talking about 'inappropriate things' for little ears, no watching 'inappropriate things' on TV etc etc.

5)  Parents need to be more involved in their children's lives and make a point of knowing where they are, who they're with and what they're doing as much as possible.

6) Parents need to get involved in a 'hobby' for their children to keep them off the streets and out of mischief.

7) Parents need to be actively involved in their children's education - helping with homework, asking about their day etc.

8) Parents need to dress their children appropriately/purhcase only appropriate clothes for them.  If they are old enough to pop into town with their friends for a shopping trip and come back with 'inappropriate' clothes parents should take them back and exchange them for more appropriate one's.  If the child still insists on buying these things then clothes allowance should not be given and shopping for clothes should only be done with the parent present.

9) Children should not be plonked in front of the telly and be allowed to watch anything they like - channels specifically aimed at their age group should be watched only!

10) Parents should be made aware of everything in the children's lives and nothing should be kept from them by Doctors/Nurses/Health Visitors/Schools/etc. 

11) The morning after pill should only be available on prescription and notes should be made on the patients medical records when it is given.

12) Condoms should not be handed out in schools as this promotes sex full stop!

13) Sex education should not be given to children under the age of 14 and then it should only be to educate them in the biology of the human body, STD's etc.  It should be highly focussed on the fact that underage sex is illegal and the fact that turning 16 should not mean 'green light' for going around sleeping with people willy nilly - emphasis should be put on waiting until they're with someone they truly want to be with!

P.S.  In reply to the comment "We badly need for single-motherhood to become shameful again." I would like to point out that not all female single parents are single through fault of their own.  Yes there is a lot of naivity such as girls thinking 'it won't happen to me' as well as other things like relationships splitting up, death of a father, drink spiking etc.

I think the world is fast becoming a disgraceful place full stop because of the 'bad eggs' in it feeling they can do what they want when they want and having no regard for others.  The laws are simply not enforced sufficiently as far too much is allowed to happen.

The end.

That, Peewee, in my opinion is a 'Well balanced home'........not a 'rich' one, not necessarily professional parents!  In my opinion, a well balanced home is one where the parents do all the things you say they should and would never, never leave the resposibility of 'straightening' their kids out to others!  I think some kids could feel rejected and unloved by it and in turn could get worse!!

"That, Peewee, in my opinion is a 'Well balanced home'........not a 'rich' one, not necessarily professional parents!"

I didn't say it was a 'rich' home with professional parents!  I'm talking generally here and yes about a 'well balanced home' :)  All parents could do what I pointed out if they just tried :)  Its not hard to act responsibly and be a 'good role model' to your children you just have to show a bit of respect to the child and think before you do/say things etc.

"In my opinion, a well balanced home is one where the parents do all the things you say they should and would never, never leave the resposibility of 'straightening' their kids out to others!"

Yes I agree!  However, there are occasions where parents have done/tried everything possible and their children are just totally unruly.  In those instances I think help should be more easily reachable.  Bring on Brat Camps in the UK - the Yorkshire Moors would be ideal!!

"I think some kids could feel rejected and unloved by it and in turn could get worse!!"

By what?

Peewee, I was agreeing wholeheartedly with you.  Someone else said that children end up in childrens' homes from "rich, wellbalanced homes', the point I was trying to make was that my idea of a wellbalanced home does not necessarily mean a home where the parents are rich and/or 'professional' people. Good parents can be poor and non-professional!  "I think that kids could feel rejected and unloved by it and in turn could get worse"........I meant by being put in a childrens' home and not being 'sorted' by the parents! 

I believe that one of the main problems is that too many parents (not just young ones) treat their children like their friends/companions rather than as their children.  i work with vulnerable young people (drugs and abuse) and find the main issue is that young people do not have enough boundaries.  when boundaries are put in place e.g. by workers they do not know how to respond to them and that causes a lot of problems. JMHO

You're spot on. If you physically put a small child in the middle of a large open field and run away it'll be scared. If you put it in a small garden with large, thick hedges and go away it'll feel secure.

Likewise if you mentally abandon a child in the middle of an adult world it'll be scared. If you control its mental boundaries it'll be secure and those boundaries can gradually expand.

You're spot on. If you physically put a small child in the middle of a large open field and run away it'll be scared. If you put it in a small garden with large, thick hedges and go away it'll feel secure.
Likewise if you mentally abandon a child in the middle of an adult world it'll be scared. If you control its mental boundaries it'll be secure and those boundaries can gradually expand.
That is a great analogy JG and absolutely spot on.
lea :)

I strongly feel that children, like puppies, need to be grown slowly. Rushing them into early adulthood is a form of abuse. :(

It starts insidiously with clothes.

When we were children baby clothes and many childrens were nothing like adult clothes styles.

Girls dresses did not have waists,b ecause baby gilrs and toddlers don't.

Boys wore short trousers until senior school.

I'm gonna bow out of this debate now as I can see both sides and in my opinion there are 50% of kids in care due to their wrong doing (not through bad parentage) and the other 50% due to bad parentage.  Sometimes a child goes home to his/her parent and all is well both parties just needed a cooling off period but sadly not all that often.  I could go on forever on this subject as I feel again that 'kids in care' are often set up to fail with all the handouts as believe me they don't live in the real world.  Apart from losing her parents my child would love it in care and I'm being serious, to her going bowling or having a takeaway is a treat or reward to excellent behaviour! To them it's an activity of which we have 5 a week! They get paid for attending Education, the list goes on as to what incentives we have to give.  Most of them act as though they cannot read nor write but come Monday morning they are banging on the office door as they have realised their phone card, pocket money, activity list hasn't been done, toiletries or clothing allowance is due that week, like I say I could go on and on !  Bless em we can only do our best within the guidelines of CSCI.

I was talking to one of Mollies friends the other day. A very nice, responsible 12 year old in her first year at Secondary School. I very much like her - but I was alarmed by our discussion. She was telling me that they went XC running with school last week and when the teacher asked them to go further they simply refused because they were tired. She said she told the teacher she wasn't doing any more and she was fully aware the teacher could do nothing to make her.  Even when the head teacher was called the children weren't bothered and indeed, did not run further.

Children know too much about their "rights" these days. When I was at school you did what you were told or your world fell in on your head - seriously. And I blame parents for that because they don't take RESPONSIBILITY for their vile brattish spawns behaviour!

"Children know too much about their "rights" these days."

Thats becuase children have been given too many 'rights' at the expense of the teachers 'rights' - its disgraceful!

>Children know too much about their "rights" these days.

I couldn't agree more. Their lives would be so much easier if they just obeyed first and grumbled later. Why is there such a confrontational attitude nowadays?

Because 'rights' were given to children by the government without them even contemplating how they would be exploited and turned into something they weren't intended to be i.e. a green light to ignore all authority :rolleyes:

I have a relative who's daughter became pregnant at I think sixteen.  The parents have a very nice home, both earn a good income from good jobs.

They didn't want their child to go into a council house on a council estate.  So they bought a house for daugher and boyfriend to live in. 

Very nice for them, but they have acted as landlords to the daughter and receive £600 per month from the council for her rent. :rolleyes:

Of course it is we the taxpayers who are actually funding it.

funny, same happened to a friend of mine - she is 19 and her parents have done the same!

I don't think that's allowed in Scotland - to rent to a relative who's on full housing benefits   But if it is it certainly shouldn't be

Teri,

I know of someone in Forfar who is doing that for their daughter, they go under different surnames so Angus council never suspects a thing!

Have you reported them?

Hi Christine,

Well I know it's one of the questions on the paperwork (if the landlord is a relative that is) and I as far as I know it's not allowed so very possibly what's going on in that case is fraud   This is the kind of thing that gets much needed funds depleted and not reaching the people who need them most :( :( :(

Teri

I think it goes back to a lack of respect.  When I was at home we respected our parents, teachers, neighbours, basically ALL of our elders and that was because our parents instilled that into us.   I did the same with my daughter and both she and her circle of friends have a healthy respect for themselves and everyone else too.

It's even more important nowadays IMO as a lot of lazy parents relied heavily on teachers issuing out discipline and basically bringing up their kids for them but now, poor teachers, they have no chance of controlling some of the kids at all and certainly are given precious little respect from the parents never mind pupils.

Bring back the belt - or hanging (sometimes :D  ) Carla can sort out the finer points as PM :P

My daughter thinks I am strict because I make her earn her pocket money, keep her room tidy, iron her uniform and do her sandwiches every evening for school. I see it as character building. She is still stropping because I wouldn't let her ride yesterday because her room is a mess.
She respects me for it though and when she is good, does her jobs she gets her rewards and independence. She also has a strong sense of what is right and what is downright wrong!

and that Mummy doesn't like housework :D

But you're right - parents have to instill the correct moral and social values from the outset because when they don't we, society in general, have to bear the brunt of it

>and that Mummy doesn't like housework

that aswell! :D :D :D

Kinda guessed ;)   You want to send her for hols to Aunt Teri's?   I promise I'll keep up your high standards :D :D :D

"Bring back the belt"

Bring back class detention for 1 pupil misbehaving - their classmates would soon make them aware that their misbehaving/disrespecting has got to stop because by doing so they all have to suffer!

>Bring back class detention for 1 pupil misbehaving - their classmates would soon make them aware that their misbehaving/disrespecting has got to stop because by doing so they all have to suffer!

They do that already.  The reactions are not always what you would expect.  My daughter was disgusted but not with the boy who had got the class a detention.  Her attitude was that the school knew he had a bad temper and a problem home so it was only a matter of time before he threw a chair so someone should have done something about it, what can the children do?

"They do that already.  The reactions are not always what you would expect.  My daughter was disgusted but not with the boy who had got the class a detention.  Her attitude was that the school knew he had a bad temper and a problem home so it was only a matter of time before he threw a chair so someone should have done something about it, what can the children do?"

When I was at school (10 years ago now like!) if one person misbehaved and the whole class got 'punished' the mumblings and 'glares' from the class towards the 'bad egg' were enough to make them squirm and be sorry for what they had done   When they started misbehaving again a few 'stares' and 'comments' were usually enough to stop them, or atleast calm them down a bit :D  I know that now kids are sooo different and that 'respect' for elders/teachers/authority/people in general seems to have all but disappeared and its shocking!  Children need firm boundaries and parents/teachers/police/etc need to be able to instill them into kids no questions asked.  I don't agree with the 'physical punishments' that went in years gone by but respect needs to be clawed back from a generation who are growing up with very little cos we face the danger of the next generation having zero respect! :rolleyes:

Why not bring in Army Cadets on a larger scale particularly for the 'bad eggs' to teach them discipline from a reasonably young age so that by the time they reach 15/16 they're not "out of control"?

Bring back 'Youth Clubs' in every town to give kids somewhere to go several evenings a week to keep them off the streets.  There's so much that was around when I was growing up that seems to have 'disappeared' now that its no wonder there's more and more kids hanging about on street corners :rolleyes:

>Why not bring in Army Cadets on a larger scale particularly for the 'bad eggs' to teach them discipline from a reasonably young age so that by the time they reach 15/16 they're not "out of control"?

National Service is a darned good idea.

I wonder whether the modern habit of allowing children to call adults by their first names is part of the problem? Children don't see adults as (poor wording here, but I've got a shocking headache!) 'superior beings' who shouldn't be treated as they would treat a pal.

I remember when I was younger and most of the people that lived in our street I refered to them as MR X, Mr & Mr Y, etc etc.

Even today I refer to most of them as Mr ...., Mr & Mrs ......

"I can see both sides and in my opinion there are 50% of kids in care due to their wrong doing (not through bad parentage) and the other 50% due to bad parentage.  Sometimes a child goes home to his/her parent and all is well both parties just needed a cooling off period but sadly not all that often. "

I agree although I wouldn't have said it was a 50/50 split as personally I believe there to be more children in care due to 'poor parenting' and 'parental illness' such as debiliitating illness, despression, schizophrenia etc, than those in care for a 'cooling off period'.  Its a sad world we live in that so many children end up in care though :(  But you guys in social care do a very commendible job and I applaud you :)

I remember when I was younger and most of the people that lived in our street I refered to them as MR X, Mr & Mr Y, etc etc.


My mum calls her neighbours she has know for 42 years Mrs .....X,Y,Z.!!

In my personal or professional life I have never met a child in care who had not suffered some sort of deprivation or trauma in their background.  Social Services do not take care orders lightly.

When was the last time you read in your local or national paper of a 16 or 17year old boy (or even older) being taken to court for having sex with a girl under 16?  It did happen to a friend of mine when I was younger (and scared the life out of me); he was 19 and she was 15.  Unfortunately I can't remember the outcome but I do remember the fear factor.

I've just looked out of my lounge window and have seen a group of 11/12 year olds all holding hands, kissing, etc.  Where are their parents?  Why do parents allow their children to simply go out and walk around the streets.  Who supervises them when that happens? 

...... .......ooooh don't get me started......!!

I've delayed posting on this, because I feel sick to my stomach to think of this family.

The only good thing that I can say about the mother is the comment that she has made that "she will stand by" her daughter and grandchild.   At least this won't be a baby dumped in the river soon after birth, as reported by the BBC today.   But that is the only good thing I can say.    What sort of mother allows an 11 year old to smoke 20 cigarettes a day (where does she get the money from, for heaven's sake - her child benefit?) get drunk enough to be raped?

And this stupid woman (I won't insult female dogs by calling this woman one) is going to be allowed to bring up the next generation?

In my view, she should have ALL her children taken into care, she should be FORCED to attend parenting classes (all benefits being withdrawn until she has learned how not to bring up children).

Just don't get me started.....

Margot

Ohhh b***er...this is so depressing.....

It really is very depressing and a culture that many actually choose to be part of. I know many had no decent grounding in life but many 'adults' have chosen this way of life. That really is sad.

Id just like to stick my bit in!

I was 16 when i fell pregnant with my son! And do i blame my parents?? No! I had sex, i got pregnant, all me!! I made my own choices and made my own decisions! I knew very well what i was doing and the risk i was taking, i took it and i got pregnant, but il tell you something, i dont EVER regret what i did, i love my son more than anything in the world and his happiness means the world to me, everywhere i go people comment on how well behaved he is and how well mannored he is! His happy and i feel proud of myself for the little person that he has become :)

So should i feel ashamed and disgusted of myself that i had a baby at 17 and got pregnant at 16??

Yes i had to grow up very fast and be a mother at 17, but like i said i dont regret it and wouldnt change the past! Does that make me sad? Does that make me a bad person and a bad mother just because i was young to have a child?

Im 20 and pregnant again, me, my partner, his and my family couldnt be more happy for us! This baby was planned as i wanted more children and wanted Damian to have a brother or sister :)

I dont for 1 second 'blame' my parents for the way i was brought up! They cant control what i do, i do! I have my own mind!

Yes 12 is too young to have a baby and it is illegal! But hey, i didnt break the law, i was legally old enough to have sex and take responsibility for my actions, and believe me i have!

If people under 20 'choose' to have kids, dont brand us bad people, as long as kids are brought up with good mannors, disipline, and are happy little people, what should the age of their mums matter?

I do think personally that under 16 is too young to have a baby, but if your not breaking the law and your clever enough to have sex, then your clever enough to deal with the consequences! :)

>and your clever enough to have sex

I never realised it took intelligence - I thought it was instinctive! The clever bit is to avoid behaving like the rest of the animal kingdom! ;) :D

As a mother of a daughter, one of my main aims was to help my daughter understand (not always easy with a teenager) that, in life, there are some better routes to a happy life :) I'm not saying that you can't be happy, having a family very young, but, statistically, people who have children young are more likely to break up with their partners and to run into debt or have a low income. What I would like for my daughter (and my son) is for them to get as good an education as they can, get as good a job as they can and enjoy themselves without the responsibilities and ties of a parent. THEN, when they have a home, a regular income, a steady relationship AND have had a good time as young people, they can make the decision to have a family :) That is what I drummed into my kids when they were young - now, it maybe brainwashing/old fashioned in some people's opinion - but it was my POSITIVE approach to bringing my children up, rather than just letting have to find out as they went along :)

Daisy

lol you know what i mean, if you think your clever enough to have sex then you should be clever enough to accept what happens thereafter, thats what i ment :)

I'm glad that things ARE working out for you Blue - there is always the exception that proves the rule.   How would you feel, if, in 12 years time, Damien were to come home and tell you that he is going to be a father?  And that the mother will be 12 when she has a baby?

In my opinion, the best thing that parents can give their children is unconditional love, firm boundaries, a sense of responsibility and a good education, which will mean that each child (boy and girl) is capable of earning their own living by their own hard work, and not living off state benefits.

Margot

I totally agree :)

If Damian comes home when his 12 and says his got another 12 year old girl pregnant, il be anything but pleased to say the least!

I think its wrong that 12 year olds are even having sex full stop! I was still playing with my post office when i was 12 lol *blushes*

But i suppose you cant keep your kids locked up and you cant follow them around everywhere they go to make sure their not getting up to no good, just drum in to them from day one, whats right and what isnt :)

I just hope that my kids learn by me and not go having babies so young, i think i probably would of had babies young anyway, depending on my circumstances, maybe if id have planned it all out, this one would of been my first, not my second, but at the end of the day, il give my kids and do the best i possibly can to give them what they need and what they want, love, security, happy home etc. :)

>But i suppose you cant keep your kids locked up and you cant follow them around everywhere they go to make sure their not getting up to no good

I agree, but you don't have to make it easy for them either... my daughter is allowed to catch the bus into town and back with her friend - but her friend is also very sensible and Mollie has to adhere to exact timings or she doesn't get to go again.

I do know children have much more freedom to be adults early these days - tales of thongs worn at school by 9 year olds and this one going out with that one. Its not right!

My daughter was called 'Garden girl' at 11 and 12 as she wasn't allowed out with all the other girls to roam around at night until all hours :rolleyes:  I told her we loved her enough to put up with having a stroppy teenager around us and not chuck her out at night because it was easier ;)   When she was 16 she was allowed out a little later but was appalled at the goings on of her friends (sex against the back walls of houses, getting bladdered and having sex openly at parties etc... ) and didn't really want to stay out with them ;)   she's 20 now and has actually told me that much as she hated us for not allowing her out late at 11, 12, 13 etc. it was the right thing to do and she would do the same for her kids - if she ever has them ;)

I can remember when I was a young teen and my parents being scandalised at some of their friends/aquaintances allowing/encouraging their daughters to stay out late, have boyfriends and go to pubs/clubs etc.  My father saw it as prostituting their daughters about, even tho money wasn't involved ;) have to say that where this behaviour is encouraged it does seem like prostitution to me too :( :(

> But i suppose you cant keep your kids locked up and you cant follow them around everywhere they go to make sure their not getting up to no good, just drum in to them from day one, whats right and what isnt

I agree, but learning about responsibility doesn't just start once a child hits puberty (and I don't mean just sexual responsibility) it's a gradual thing that should start from the beginning.  One of the most important lessons anyone can learn is that actions have consequences also responsibilities.  As my kids got older, bit by bit they got more freedoms, but with those freedoms came responsibilities and they knew that if they did not act in a responsible way, then the freedoms would be withdrawn...