I cannot believe that a child the same age as my daughter is about to become a mother herself

Just another sign of the morality and standards of parenting in this country falling by the wayside.

We're doomed for the future if this is an indication of how things are going to be!

I talked to Mollie about it this morning and she was flabberghasted - what future does that child, and her child have?!

How sad :( :( :(

There's no excuse for some of the parenting problems these days - I cringe sometimes when I see how many youngsters are walking about with one in a pram and another toddling alongside holding their hands :(  Even more so when they're en masse bedecked in Burberry - but that's a whole new thread!

I think someone should go to goal over this.  If the father is deemed too young then it should be the parents for allowing a, then 11 year old girl, to go out for "nights out" with a boy very much more mature that her :rolleyes:.  But really at 15 the father should be punished, he must know the facts of life at that age and children of a lesser age have been held responsible for serious crimes.

Yes, I agree. Someone should be seen to be punished. I said to Jon that I think Social services should be involved immediately.

Surely they will be!  The mother says she will stand by her daughter and grandchild, well what a great role model she will be to the girl :rolleyes: and let's hope she doesn't gain a granddaughter to drag up in the same way, not that boys don't need equally good mentors but they are less damaged by this sort of thing.

I really believe that her mother (or both parents - not sure if dad is around) should be charged with neglect or cruelty. An 11 year old child, pregnant - and apparently smoking 20 a day - and the mother says she is proud of her. As the mother is still only 34 and has other children, I just hope that she is forcefully sterilised.

Val

What hope have we in getting people to breed dogs responsibly when they can't even manage it for themselves? :rolleyes:

In a sense I think people of our generation are all to blame.  It was us that shouted for equality, the right for woman to exercise choice, whether she married, whether she enjoyed one night stands, whether she reared children with male role models but then we were being told that marriage was outdated and unnecessary and woman could do what they liked with their bodies and their children without anything but gain to their personal happiness.  But the ensuring 20, 30 years have shown that unmarried relationships don't survive as well as marriage and they don't all achieve the security that children need and that single parented children do not achieve as well as those with two so maybe it's time to stop this huge social experiment, think again and perhaps encourage a different route.
Duck

The only bits of modern 'women's lib' I think I agree with is equal pay for equal work, and contraception. (The Suffragettes did the hard work getting us the vots and the right to own our own property. :)) The rest seems more like selfishness than sense.

I agree with you Isabel, the problem today is all about RIGHTS(rights to do this, that and the other!)but HANG the responsibility!!!

Is it just me, but little girls of that age should still be wanting a pony and playing with Barbie etc!  Not going out on the town, having one night stands and smoking 20 cigarettes a day.  I heard someone on the radio discussing the issues and calling her a young woman She's not a young woman, she's a child and to me a child bearing a child is heartbreaking. What was her own mother thinking?

Lesley

Gonna stick my neck out and throw in some questions

If underage sex and teenage pregnancy is a problem, which obviously it is in this country, are the parents solely to blame?

If there is a general decline in morals, which there appears to be in this country, why?

Is underage sex and teenage pregnancies portrayed as normal in the media? Doesn't this have an affect on children's attitudes and their parents too?

Thankfully, there are a very small number of girls getting pregnant as young as this one and the parenting skills of this girl's parents need to be questioned but rather than punishing them we should be looking for reasons as to why so many parents appear to be ignoring parental responsibilties. 

As for social services, some of the children in care are worse off than being at home, but we don't hear much about that do we?

There may not be many quite as young as this getting pregnant but many more underage are having sex, risking not only pregnancies but the effects of abortion or STIs on their health and future fertility.
I think the parents do need to be punished as there is lots of help with parenting skills available and much is said about in in the media and society generally but there will always be some who ignore it and refuse to take responsibility and only the threat of real punishment would make them.  This was not a little girl out playing with her friends that got somehow involved with a lad against her parents notice, this was a little girl permitted to go for nights out in Edinburgh.
I take your point about children in care and do recognise that is most cases they are best with a parent but families like this should be getting lots of Social Services input and if the balance of probabilies are greater that they would have a better life in care they should be taken away.

Sadly I remember even when I was in school in the 70's London there was a very well developed girl who at 12 was more than happy to snog and heavy pet with the boys in corners. 

A promisucous and precocious child like this could easily go further than this meeting their boyfreind before or after school (or whilst truanting) with parents being unaware, as they could be at work.

The girl I knew had very respectable seeming parents who I doubt were aware of her daughters behaviour with boys.

Haven't seen this particular case.

Young people from the time they are in the last year of Primary school are convinced theya re grown up, and expect to wera make up and have boyfreinds.

The teen magazines encourage this,a dn are usually read by children younger by several years  than their supposed target audience.

No disrespect or anything, but I have noticed quite a large number of teen mothers (not 12 years luckily, but still under 20) in UK. First time I visited I was really shocked of how many young girls were pushing their kids around and they looked like they can hardly take care of themselves.
We have the opposite problem in my country....LOL. You only see really old mothers with babies and our government is really worried that we might die out eventually. Everybody wants to have a career and go to uni and the average age when women have children is around 28.

But my question here is whether you guys have some law that regulates these things. Having sex with under-aged kids should be against the law!!!! people go to jail for that!!

Yes there is a law against it.  Unfortunately if the boy is also under 16 it is rarely enforced.
By the way if your Government is worried about a dropping population how about relaxing your very strict immigration laws ;)

LOL I know we should do something about it....... our population is getting old and the government doesn't do anything about it.

>If underage sex and teenage pregnancy is a problem, which obviously it is in this country, are the parents solely to blame?

They are to blame for raising children with no ambition or foresight to have a LIFE and a CAREER before settling down with a long term partner and having children. They are too blame for setting slack standards. I bet the mother of this child is on benefits and is setting a poor example to her daughter. Its clear to me that a high percentage of these children cannot see further than the actions and lifestyle of their own parents. My daughter wants a career, a TT (lol) and a life before settling down - this has been drummed into her for years :D

>If there is a general decline in morals, which there appears to be in this country, why?

See above. No ambition, no foresight, no future other than Vicki Pollard style mums and babies. Kids have no-one to look upto these days. Celebrities behave badly, footballers spit and swear and its very obvious that to get a house you need a baby!

>Is underage sex and teenage pregnancies portrayed as normal in the media? Doesn't this have an affect on children's attitudes and their parents too?

I don't think it is seen as a bad thing nearly enough. These types of stories highlight the Chav element of GB - and provoke strong reactions with the typical defensive, shock tactic mother defending her bl**dy awful parenting and irresponsibility.

>As for social services, some of the children in care are worse off than being at home, but we don't hear much about that do we?

The child should be removed from her mother, given councilling, given a strict talking to, have her cigarettes removed, be tested for STD's and placed in foster care. The 15 year old should be prosectuted for underage sex, the mother for nbeglect, child cruelty and anything else - throw the book at her for all I care. Then publicise it as what happens when CHILDREN in the UK are made pregnant!

  well said ChloeH You've got it so right...conclusion is perfect, they should all feel ashamed and  be dealt with accordingly. I also agree strongly, take those cigarettes away. She can only live within boundaries allowed. Poor child should  be allowed to be a child first.

100% behind you there - force responsibility on them

Bit of an age old drum to bang, but as this week I have absolute proof that it DOES still happen ...

We need to change the perception that young pregnant girls will be housed. The granddaughther of a friend of my mother's is 16 and pregnant, baby due in 3 weeks, and has this week been given a two bedroomed flat in an area of very low availability council housing. What an excellent message to send to her friends. :rolleyes:

Take this option away - leave them at home with their parents, it might make the parents instill rather better morals in them if they know they're going to have to live with the baby for the next 5 years. In circumstances where the mother can't stay at home, put them into hostels etc.

I realise this sounds old fashioned, but it needs to be made a far less attractive proposition.

M.

16 year old girl living alone???? Is that even possible??

Very possible. :( When children 'in care', whether in a Children's Home or foster care, reach the age of 16 they leave the dubious protection of social services and are on their own ...

:D I left home and fully supported myself with a job at 16 and no, I was not pregnant nor did the council house me :)

>16 year old girl living alone????  Is that even possible??

My last post was a Housing Officer...twice within one year I was invloved in the housing of 17 year olds with two children each :( They couldn't even sign for their own tenancies as they were under 18 and had to have a guarantor.

I have been listening to this story reported on the radio today. The 'headline' on the news stated 11 year old gets pregnant on a drunken one night stand. Just how wrong is that whole sentence. Poor child :(

My mother was married at 16 and had me just before her 17th birthday, and had my brother by the time she was 18.  By 29 there were five of us.

Sadly when my youngest brothr was five and I was 17 she decided she had missed out on life and left my Dad with the kids.

I was half way through 'A' levels with a Dad who was having a nervous breakdown.

I left school and helped my family for the next 3 years until Dad remarried, and then I married probably in haste myself at 21.

Sadly the marriage failed, but I have two children I wouldn't be without.

Sometimes lifes a bitch, and then it has puppies

Make parents responsible for funding/housing/childcare and feeding of granchildren spawned by children under the age of 18.

And also reduce benefits for further children born out of marriage - one can be an accident; after that there's no excuse.

We usually stay home till we finish school.....in my case that was at age 24. I wouldn't let my kids leave till they're at least 18 or so. I'm 27 and still not completely mature!

>We usually stay home till we finish school

Children can leave school at the end of the school year of their 16th birthday ... so for late summer babies they can still be 15 ...

By school I meant university or college......

Because most youngsters go to University a long way from home they often move out 'properly' in the second year, because campus living is often reserved for first-years. When they're renting fulltime they often stay there during the holidays as well. :)

>I wouldn't let my kids leave till they're at least 18 or so

In the UK a parent could not stop you leaving at 16.  Thankfully, my mother did not even try to prevent me exercising my drive for independence and we continued with our excellent relationship, albeit sometimes at opposite ends of the country :), for the rest of her life.  I had been well brought up, understood money management, the dangers of drink, sex and drugs and was demonstrably sensible so she had no extra worries really than if I had gone much older.  This girl in question has clearly not been well brought up and does not understand how to keep safe nor is she being protected until she does.

Thankfully, my mother did not even try to prevent me exercising my drive for independence and we continued with our excellent relationship, albeit sometimes at opposite ends of the country , for the rest of her life.
Neither did mine, but I simply felt no need to move out at that age if I had it so good at home ;). It's a European phenomena I guess (not counting UK) that kids stay at home for longer and longer periods of time. They act like teens well into their late 20, because buying a property or even a small apartment is out of question when you're studying. Even when you get a job, nobody is going to give you a loan until your income is steady. There was a really good article in Time magazine about that same subject....... in Asia children take care of their parents, while in Europe it's just the other way around. Our parents are working till they're 60 and longer and continue taking care of us even after we're technically grown up.

Why on earth do young people all think they have to buy before they leave home. I did not buy until I have been working for about 8 years. Flat sharing is a great experience when you are young and tolerant ;) I can't understand why anybody young would want the responsibility of home owning they should be enjoying much more freedom than that.  Unfortunately they are in a fierce grip of property buying mania in the UK which has contributed to the enormous increase in single person households putting great strain on the available housing stock crazy really.  If they waited to buy until they were older and ready to settle down with a family they would be on better incomes and less needy of help from parents plus the decrease in pressure on housing could bring the prices down.

Why on earth do young people all think they have to buy before they leave home. I did not buy until I have been working for about 8 years. Flat sharing is a great experience when you are young and tolerant
That's the question...LOL I guess because they can! I guess because they want to spent that "rent" money on things like traveling and other things they won't be able to do later on when they have a house to pay off and a couple of kids. Not that I agree with it, but that's the way it is. ;)

Not been on here for a couple of days so lots to catch up on :)

My daughter is not even 22 and has just taken on a property with her boyfriend.  She did rent a flat until last 2 weeks ago but at £550 per month she may as well be paying a mortgage and be investing in her own property.  As a hardworking youngster with no intention of having children in the short term there was absolutely no prospect of her getting a council property which would obviously be cheaper.  This riles us as a family because my children were born and brought up here yet anyone from outside the town or even country can swan in a take a council property as they have more points (usually equals children).  Even if they did decide to bide their time and wait the 7+ years to get a council property they would have to start off in a bedsit (assuming still no children of course). 

I don't think that is very different from when I left home 30 years ago.  I could not have afforded anything where my parents loved at that time, Cambridge, so I went to Bristol, which was not trendy just then, to seek work and affordable rents.  Even then I lived in a bedsit, and loved it, no housework! :D  I certainly could not have afforded to pay a rent greater than the average for a studio flat in outer London

I think it has changed over the last 20 years let alone 30.  What with an ever increasing demand on the market and the rocketing of house prices there is a problem for the first time buyers.  I was on the council housing list when I was a teenager and the waiting list for a single person was 2 years but now it's 3 times that at least in this area and everytime some girl gets pregnant and joins the list you get shoved further down the list.

We live in one of the areas that has been earmarked for tens of thousands of houses.  Houses and flats are popping up left right and centre, some of which are aimed at first time buyers.  Unfortunately first time buyers don't stand much of a chance when you have property investors nipping in and then letting them. An aquaintance told me her son was renting one of the new flats and pays £750/mth.  You can buy a house for that so it would be crazy to line someone else's pocket IMO.

BTW this is not considered a desirable location, in fact the properties in this town are cheaper than the surrounding towns and villages.

I never heard of a single girl getting a council house when I rented.  A girl I shared a house with got one about a year after she had a baby.
I would say your area must be desirable if the rents are so high compared even to outer London.
Part of the pressure on housing stock is the huge increase in demand from people living on their own.  Why don't they want to share anymore?  Is it because children tend to have their own bedrooms a lot more now?

Very interesting prices.  Does make us look desirable and probably is compared to some of those locations.

You might be right about children not having to share bedrooms affecting their opinions on flat sharing.  My daughter's flat was only one bedroom though (£550 /m) I don't know how much 2 beds are around here.  She did consider house sharing with work colleague but in the end decided to go it alone until bf decided to join her.

Many years ago when I was looking for rented housing I went to go on the council's waiting list, and was told I could jump the 2-year wait if I got pregnant. We badly need for single-motherhood to become shameful again.

Not singlemotherhood in itself, as some girls are guilable and think they are in a relationship and others are abandoned along the way, choosing singlemotherhood should be portrayed as what it is, dreary, unattractive drudgery.  Underage motherhood though should be shamefull but for the responsible parents, children should never feel shame because the whole point is they are not yet capable of responsible choices.

Hey JG this also happened to me.  Because I'm one of those weirdo's decided to leave home at 30, hadn't had a relationship, so didn't have any children I ended up having to buy a house as I wasn't allowed a council property.  I was also told to get pregnant then I would have no need to buy my own house by the Housing Department

Oh and people wonder why we get where we are today.  They get loads of benefits etc.  I only just can scrape enough money together to feed my dogs well, pay my bills (no credit cards as I couldn't afford one and couldn't go into debt) after all this I don't feed myself that well :d  Luckily my parents live 7 minutes away so I still frequent their house many days of the week for my tea :d :d

>Is underage sex and teenage pregnancies portrayed as normal in the media?

Certainly in girls' magazines - even those aimed at 12-year olds - the Problem Pages have changed from how to cure acne to how to give various types of 'satisfaction'.

oH dear! My 10yearold hasn't yet shown an interest in girlie magazines, I will keep a close eye on that though. In her class at school they are all 'going out' with each other but it means nothing very few meet socially out of school it really is remaining innocent.......

REALLY???? I must get one to read!!! LOL Seriously, it's depressing isn't it??

I don't normally comment on threads that I'm not confident with but in this instance I would just like to say each case surely has to be judged on it's own, I work in a Childrens Home on an agency basis and love the job, Social Services obviously place the non-placeable children in our units having tried Foster Care etc., Some of these children come from beautiful well balanced homes and on the flip of the coin others come from what can only be described as abysmal conditions (we do supervised home contact).  I have learnt so much from this job that black and white do not exist and grey does. Social Services can remove any child and put them with really good role models but unfortunately, it's the child that has to adhere to the system and some can't or just won't.  I've seen 12yr olds pregnant and addicted to drugs (hard drugs), get them clean, have the baby and abscond a day later to their previous life.  One instance is an Asian girl who was sold by her father for £15 to her aunty who pimped her and could we get her to stay, at every opportunity she absconded back to the life she knew, eventually forcing Social Services to place her in a secure unit at 13 but upon release I can guess where she'll go!  We have had a few success stories but unfortunately, they are the minority.  We can't always blame the parents and I know that my children do not reflect the upbringing I gave them!

Hi

I have a daughter who is twelve and cringes when anyone kisses on the telly. She is not allowed to drink but then again has never asked. She does not go out to discos or smokes. She is a normal 12yr old who likes nice clothes and wears more make up than I would like but that is just me being a mum.

I tell her what time she is to be in at night. In fact it is not night it is early evening unless she is at a friends house then her dad will collect her.

I know at some point she is going to experiment with smoking and sex. I just hope I have brought her up to be sensible.

I have only heard a few bits on the radio about the young girl. I think if it was my daughter i would of had the baby descretely removed as soon as they found out and kept well away from the media. At 12 she is to young to know her own mind and far to young for the pressures of parent hood. Not really fair on the unborn baby either coming into the world with the stigma hanging over it.

Wendy

Hi Craigles, I can see your point (well, as explained) but there are certainly many underage and borderline age pregnancies where the children - and they are children - giving birth are not in the system and appear to have a lot of Government hand outs which sends very wrong and irresponsible messages to their friends :(

Not all kids who get into trouble come from poor parental backgrounds, I agree, but also I think realistically we have to accept that a great many do.   Some sort of weight of the law has to be brought to bear IMO on parents in today's society that ensures far more responsibility is taken by them.

Not the only answer I'm sure and perhaps not the most effective but the "moral majority" need to be heard before it's too late :(