can anybody help me i have been giving my dogs puppies and adults Sa-37 we have gone to our vets with our labrador and told them she was on this and her reply was it isnt very good my adult dogs are also on cod liver oil tables which our vet approves of and we find excellent but has anybody had any bad or good experience with the sa-37 and we are unsure if to still use it anymore?confused:

I think the problem is that it may be over-egging the pudding so to speak! If dogs have a well balanced, nutricious feed why add to it?? I give cod liver oil, Vitamin C, Zinc(helps the coat and skin enourmously) and Glucosamine and chondroitin. All the best, Dawn

I'd get them off the CLO and keep them on half the recommended daily dose of SA37. 

Edited to add: Please do not add Cod Liver Oil.  It is unecessary and as it contains the fat soluble vitamins of A and D could prove toxic to your dog.

This was taken from an earlier posting of Tohme's but echoes what my own vet says about CLO

I have been giving CLO for years,it is part of a mix of different oils i have made up myself. To overdose on it would be extremely hard and you would have to give mega high doses everyday for months,or even years.I personally dont give huge doses of CLO,i give it 3-4 times per week and i also limit their liver intake,so it would be pretty impossible for me to OD on it :)

Personally I think SA37 is a good all round supplement and have used it in the past.

More significantly, IMO, according to a regular visiting Consultant from Glasgow University Vet Hospital to my veterinary practice both CLO and EPO have recently been linked to bringing on epilepsy in certain breeds or lines with a low threshhold of tolerance and he/they now only ever recommend the use of FBO (if going the oil route at all) as obviously the average pet owner may not be aware of incidents of epilepsy in their dogs pedigree.

Regards, Teri :)

This is simply my opinion (so please don't think i am getting at anyone). I believe everything is fine in moderation. We can get too hooked on what may happen if we do this and what may happen if we do that. I just think that the world has gone abit crazy. It is known that bread is not good for us but still people eat it. At some point cornflakes have been labled bad. Too much of something regulaly, yes can be bad but a couple of mls of oil at most once a day seems unlikely to make a huge difference. And even if there have been test to link some food with giving you an ilness, who is to say it wouldn't have occured anyway. That is the problem with all this research, unless there is a clean cut and obvious outcome, the bad parts could have happened anyway.

It is always a case of weighing up the pros and cons. Would you rather taking a tiny risk of your dog developing epilepsy and see the result -  a healthier, less itchy coat. Or not take the risk and therefore leave your dog in a less good condition and not know whether or not the oil would do any harm or not. Research is never 100% accurate which is why humans were given good brains to work out dangers for ourselves and be sensible in what we do.

That is my opinion - no one need agree but it is just another point of veiw.

Anna

Don't get me wrong and presume that i would put my dogs lives at risk just because. I love them to bits and do take notice of research i just believe some of it (not saying the specific bit) needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I would do anything to keep my dogs healthy but as i have said, you need to weigh up the pros and cons of what you want.

Hi Anna270787

I can agree with much of what you say but if an expert in the field tells me differently and there are alternative oils, such as Fish Body Oils, which can (to date at any rate :D ) be given safely, achieve healthy coats, improved skin conditions et cetera then IMO why take the risk? And, certainly, I could not in conscience advocate others to do so.

Research is often only as good as it's last review but taking precautions against using something which has increased risk of adverse side effects and is no more readily available than currently veterinary preferred supplements seems foolhardy.  But each to their own.   I've provided the information I've been given and anyone reading this can do with it what they please ;)

regards, Teri

thanks for all your comments i am going to take them off sa-37 and just keep them on the cod liver oil i dont see why it could hurt them if its good for humans to take it should be good for dogs and have found it excellent with my old dogs and great danes for thier bones our vet thinks as i said in my first post it is no good the sa-37 but the cod liver oil is excellent confussing, they have one tablet each a day as the recommend dose on the packet

It is always a case of weighing up the pros and cons. Would you rather taking a tiny risk of your dog developing epilepsy and see the result -  a healthier, less itchy coat. Or not take the risk and therefore leave your dog in a less good condition and not know whether or not the oil would do any harm or not.

  I would rather my dog shone a little less than have epilepsy!

The human body has different requirements and uses for supplements than a dog does.

I would give my dogs Salmon Oil as opposed to CLO.   And SA37 is a good all round supplement although I tend to give this to an in-whelp bitch.  And if the diet you are feeding your dog suits your dog it's coat should be naturally healthy & shiny.

you have actually taken my comment out of context.

I never said i would rather my dogs to shine and get epilepsy.

Why do people always take what i am saying in the wrong way. I am not the kind of person that just gives my dogs anything whether or not it harms them.

Both my parents are doctors so i have always been taught to weigh up the pros and cons. They know how research is done and they have always said it is not 100% accurate as there can always be the possibility that eg epilepsy could have happened anyway. There is no way in telling what would happen naturally.

Also you have written "if the diet you are feeding your dog suits your dog it's coat should be naturally healthy and shiney"
If i fed my vizsla on something that got her coat shiny then i would have to feed her on Purina Beta - but then this contains BHT etc, preservatives, more sugar, salt, colourings etc and yet i don't want to risk the chance of cancer by giving the preservatives they add. So as i say again it is weighing up the pros and cons of each thing.
Also if i fed her on something that helped her coat then her poos go sloppy and other unfortunate things happen. So i have her on a natural food and then add some oil (neither EPO or CLO).

Anna

I totally understand that if there is an alternative that does eactly the same then I would say that is the way to go. My comments were not only aimed at you it was just a general point of veiw. Don't get me wrong I don't put my dogs at risk if I can help it, but sometimes I find all the information a bit overwhelming. I totally agree with giving FBO if they, as you say are at the moment, not found to do harm.

I just think sometimes we are bombarded with so much information, which often contradicts itself that we have to ignore some at some point (I am not saying in this case - I think as you have know told me about FBO then that is what I will advise to others rather than EPO etc)

I hope I havn't offended you, and I also agree with everything you say about if there is an alternative then why not use it - I really don't put my dogs at risk

I really hope no one thinks that i just give my dogs anything regardless of research saying it is bad.

Anna

Hi again anna270787

>I hope I havn't offended you

Absolutely Not :)

>I really hope no one thinks that i just give my dogs anything regardless of research saying it is bad

Absolutely Not (again :D )   Teri

I don't have a tub to hand to check, but doesn't SA37 contain both ethoxyquin and BHT? If you're someone who avoids these sort of ingredients in dog food, then you may not want to add them as an extra supplement in the diet ...

If the OP or anyone else is someone who avoids those antioxidants then I assume they would read the label and not then go on to use the product.   All labels should be read particularly if someone is dealing with a pet (or human) who has issues with intolerances, allergies, colourings, preservatives or additives of any kind :)

regards, Teri

Very interesting reading. A couple of years ago my Goldie Hamish had very itchy skin and I put him on EPO following recommendations from friends that have used it. At around the same time he had a couple of "funny turns", epileptic type symptoms. I read on the pot of EPO that they should not be given to epileptics and I stopped giving them to him. Since then he hasn't had any more episodes.

I agree completely Teri - but just wanted to point it out for anyone who may be planning to buy a tub online somewhere, so they won't be surprised when it arrived! Might save someone a fiver :-) My views on whether artificial preservatives are a good or bad thing are irrelevant, I was simply expressing a thought.

Mind you, I wasn't 100% sure - can anyone with a tub of SA37 confirm? I am convinced it contains two out of BHT, ethoxyquin, and the other one beginning with B - but unfortunately when I got home I completely forgot to check!

Yes, the anti-oxidants in SA-37 are Ethoxyquine and BHT.

im sorry but i dont agree with dogs are diffrent to humans my old rescused greyhound has no teeth and is only feed on pasta with white fish or chicken and cod liver oil and funny enough that is human food but has not done her any harm what so ever and this was suggested by my vet to feed her on i use sa-37 on my bitches once they have been mated its like these veggy diets for dogs human food may i add but that dont seem to do any harm i think my vet wouldnt suggest using cod liver oil on my dogs unless it would be ok i would never stop using it as its excellent for great danes and my old dogs too you might use the best dog food but tht doesnt mean your dog will have a good coat on them my dogs on fed on all natural food and still have not got a good coat but cod liver oil doesnt just make there coat shiny it helps it alot of other ways which i feel is very good stuff and will carry on using it as it proves to not have harmed any of my dogs but only helped them

I was told (and so it says on bottles of CLO) that it should not be given during the summer months. :)

isn't that because it contains Vit D - and in quatities that i don't know it can be toxic to dogs. And the sunny weather in summer gives the dogs enought Vit D, not sure but is that why it says don't give in summer months? :)

Apparently CLO shouldn't be given during the summer months because it can cause 'overheating' - you'd need to ask the manufacturers what they mean by that! It's Vitamin A that can be toxic because it's stored in the liver (hence giving liver oil! ;)) rather than being water-soluble as many others are.

There are a great many medicines and foods which are perfectly safe for humans but poisonous to dogs - medical fact, not a belief system unfortunately.

I can't really see why you raised this thread if you're mind is already well and truly set

Showing my ignorance here, but what is SA-37? I have heard people at ringcraft saying they feed this to their pups and bitches inwhelp but what on earth is it???!!! :D

It's a complimentary nutritional supplement that comes in powder or tablet form which is added to food - usually when not using a complete food, or if a dog is a little poorly or needing a boost.

I don't use it any more but when I fed a diet of mainly tripe / chicken / fresh mince etc and terrier biscuit I added it to meals as I was concerned that I didn't have enough vitamin and mineral content in their diet.

HTH, Teri :)

OK thanks, where would you get it from? Vet or other?

I'm pretty sure PAH sell it now - personally I'd recommend getting it in powder form if you feed a moist food as the tablets are quite large.

regards, Teri :)

Ok thanks, it sounds as though it might help my RR he sometimes looks a bit 'tight' and this might help.

it is no different than with humans. if we followed all the information in the press over the years , so and so food is bad for you ect..we would all be too scared to eat anything! I follow the same principle with my dogs as i  do humans a little of what you fancy does you good ! and i believe vitamin supplements should just be for poorly and elderly dogs.

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Cynic that I am - I believe little of what I hear on the TV and less of what I read in the newspapers.

SA37 I have used for many years with my dogs and my birds all with no detremental affect. I use the powder and sprinkle it on the dogs food (and in the bird seed). CLO or similar I use as needed on dogs and humans. An additive is just that an addition to the 'normal' food. How many of us take some form of additive every day? I am reminded of the scares over E numbers where everything with an E number is seen as a bad chemical - unfortunately this is incorrect.
There does appear to be too many scare stories over food 'additives' and gleaning the 'truth' if such a thing exists is always difficult without unbiased presentation (see above comments on Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O if you hadn't realised).

Afraid i do indulge with a little dihydrogen  monoxide - there can be little help for me, alas.    Have found it particuarly effective if you dilute it 50:50 with whisky

Jo

SA37 contain both ethoxyquin and BHT?

If this is the case,what a huge contradction sa-37 is! :( Its supposed top be a healthy supplement, yet it contains carciogenic preservatives If it does indeed contain these preservatives then i would avoid it like the plague,as i would any food that contained these unnecessary chemicals!

Ive been in dogs for over 20 years and in that time i have regularly given EPO and CLO,cant say ive ever had a problem,i have never had a dog have a seizure. A few of the oils my dogs currently get are,EPO,CLO and salmon oil.

Ethoxyquin is not used in the UK and BHT is not carcinogenic except in silly quantities that are not applicable to those permitted in food stuffs.  I don't know it it is this particular one but I would imagine a good quality preservative will be used as there seems little point in marketing a vitamin supplement unless the vitamins are going be have some integrity over a reasonable shelf life :)

>Ethoxyquin is not used in the UK<

Where did you hear this? Why does sa-37 use it if it is not used in the UK?

It was Jo English who drew my attention to it and, unless it has another name, it does not appear to be on the Food Agencies list, perhaps your eyes are sharper than mine.  I don't use it so I cannot check the ingredients, perhaps as it is not a food stuff it is covered under other regulations as the quantities consumed would be very different.  Whatever it is I am sure the permitted limits will be well below the limits indicated by research, we live in a well regulated country :)

I gave my collies which I bred for 30+ yrs meat, biscuit SA37 and when puppies bonemeal they all lived to around 16yrs was shown all there live and some of them were still winning at 12yrs old and comments where made how well they moved. Am thinking to going back to the old way as some of the kibble causes hyper activity. They all had beautiful coats and good bone.

Gosh, not heard SA37 mentioned for years - can you still get it?

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-supplements-cat-supplements-multi-vitamin-and-mineral-c-5_222/sf-50-powder-stress-formula-supplement-sa-37-replacement-p-5807
Seems u can although amazon say not available and here its turned into sa50
Don't know how much its used these days .I remember my first gsd having it

Obviously it is and we've used it in the past with our big boned breed.   However, I'd be wary because modern complete dog food usually has all the supplements a dog normally needs.  I'd noto used it unless otherwise advised to by my vet.

As is said, you breed for bone not necessarily feed (supplement) for it.

SA37 has been replaced with SF50

Wouldn't use with anything that has vit etc added like kibble only meat and biscuit.