My OH just brought home their new booklet about pedigree related diseases, and I wondered whether it was worth anyone more fluent and scientific research-based than me trying to point out the flaws in their arguments, or at least see if we can get any more balanced views. Basically they're bringing out the tired old arguments about bulldogs and dachshunds etc, and their summary is that people should not buy pedigrees or even attend dog shows! Then they contradict themselves by saying Labradoodles and Puggles are also bad news, in the section about pedigrees!! The link is www.advocatesforanimals.org/pdf/Thepriceofapedigree.pdf.

I think you are just giving them air time, Lucy.  No matter what you said to extremists like this you would not get them to see things differently  :rolleyes:, personally, I would just ask Admin to edit out their link if it is too late to remove it yourself.

Hi There

Personally I thought it was excellent reading, I certainly wouldnt call them extremists.

Forgot to mention, if you read correctly it doesnt say people should not buy pedigree dogs, it does say that ALL pedigree dogs that are KC registered should have all the correct medical testing i.e. hip scored etc etc., unfortunately there are still breeders that dont do this, and people still buy them

I think you need to read the rest of their site :rolleyes:

In some ways I would love all dogs to be hipscored including cross breeds.  I bet that they would end up with similar scores!!

There aren't many breeds scored that have a low score for their highest score, if you get what I mean.

In our breed we thought that we had a problem with glaucoma but I'm coming to the conclusion that actually we were just very unlucky that the first two imports that were mated together had it and that we didn't find out until 9 years later when one of their offspring developed it at 9 years of age.  By then the original two dogs had been used a couple of times and so had their offspring!  The other male that we brought in at the same time must have been clear so produced clear offspring with the affecteds!

The majority of the dogs born in this country now and every single one being imported does not have the problem.  We could of also have gone on for another 10/15 years if the first offspring hadn't shown the problem.  My 12 year old should have glaucoma, should be blind, has the highest score going but she still retrieves, still goes water training and hopefully will never get it.  She has produced a number of pups who have all been clear.  Luckily we now ensure that all dogs are tested so that we don't come across the same problem again.

I have read the rest of the site...and being an animal lover I think they are doing a wonderful job.  Cant see what your problem is with this site. Unless I have missed something

What about the bit that in a "perfect" world animals would not be kept as pets?
I'm sorry but the whole site reads like Peta to me.

it says "In a perfect world, animals would be free to live their lives to the fullest, in their native environments without human interference. However, most domesticated animals, such as dogs and cats, can no longer survive without human assistance, so we have a responsibility to take as good care of them as possible. it doesn't say not to keep them as pets,it says that we have domesticated them so they can't live in a natural environment. 

In a perfect world there would be no poverty and the environment would be clean and humans wouldn't be so overpopulated, we live in the real world but no one is saying that we shouldn't drive our cars, redistribute all wealth equally and stop breeding.  I think the report is a very good one and if Advocates for animals and organisations like them didn't do anything then who would care enough to try and tackle the appauling way humans treat other animals. 

Well that reads to me that they regret that animals are pets.

>In a perfect world there would be no poverty and the environment would be clean and humans wouldn't be so overpopulated, we live in the real world but no one is saying that we shouldn't drive our cars, redistribute all wealth equally and stop breeding.

Not sure what point you are making there.

These are people that would like to stop all breeding by the way :)

The point is that we've got to deal with the situation they aren't saying don't keep pets or pedigree dogs, but if we must have pedigree dogs there needs to be more guidlines for breeding.  Which bit does it say stop all breeding?  Just like we know what we are doing to the environment is wrong nobody is suggesting that we completely stop all activities that damage it because that just wouldn't be possible, but in a perfect world we would never have abused it in the first place.

There are guidelines for breeding, just about every breed club has a code of ethics and a health committee.
I think you are wrong, I think they do want all pedigree breeding stopped and on their site they say they want all pet dogs neutered, how many more generations of pets are you going to get if you do that? :)

Hi Isabel

I am sorry but I think you have misinterpreted their meanings.  As regards neutering I cant see where it says all dogs need doing but you have only to go to rescue homes to see the amount of unwanted dogs etc., quite often the result of an unwanted mating, a lot of owners are irresponsible and quite honestly I dont know why they have pets in the first place I am sure this article is aimed at this bracket.   

These are animal rights people I don't think you should underestimate them ;)

I know there are guidlines with breed clubs for breeding, but its not compulsary to join the breed club or to have the relevant health tests done.  Of course they want pet dogs neutered there is a huge problem with unwanted dogs, they only emphasise the importance of neutering companion animals :

We emphasise the importance of neutering to prevent the breeding of unwanted companion animals.

They recommend all pedigree dogs to have health checks before breeding and all other pets to be neutered to stop more unwanted animals filling up the pounds.  They certainly have my full support anyway I really don't see the problem in what they are saying.

:rolleyes: advocates for animals do a lot of good work - please don't confuse all animal welfare/rights groups with  extremists such as ALF or PETA.

Yvonne

A Google search soon found that they have worked with Peta and that at least one of their members went to work for Peta.  I think there are many more animal welfare groups to be supported.

The letter that came with the booklet specifically said their aims were for people not to buy pedigrees or to attend pedigree dog shows. :-(

Yeah it says not to support current breeding practices by not going to shows or buying from breeders, its just a passive way of making the point that they don't agree with the current practices.  I doubt if they would have a problem if all was well within the pedigree canine world.  The only ones that should be worried by that report are the people who are compounding the problem by breeding the sort of diseased/deformed dogs they are referring to.

Personally, I think you are being naive if you think they would ever support breeding any animals for pets let alone pedigree show dogs :)

You think what you like, I cba to post anymore on this subject, I think these organisations play an important role in bringing to light cruelty to animals, they don't just pluck the campaigns out of thin air.  You have the right to interpret what they say any way you like, if thats what you want but I find being called naive offensive

I appologise.  I should not have used the word naive.  You are perfectly entitled to disagree with my view of them.

Np :)

Well those are hardly the ones that are being shown.  supporting those who prove their breeding stock by show or work should be encouraged,a dn those that just produce a crop of pups should be targetted, and being anti breeder and show won't do that at all.

>it says not to support current breeding practices

Why are they suggesting that only breeding from successfully health-tested stock which are of sound temperament and bear more than a passing resemblence to their breed is wrong? Surely it makes more sense to emphasise the difference between 'best practice' (which is really very common) and puppy farming? The dogs at shows are more likely to come from reputable breeders than the puppy farms - they do their cause no service if they lump the two in the one basket.

Yeah it says not to support current breeding practices by not going to shows or buying from breeders,

So that surely means then that they consider NO breeder at the moment to be responsible!:rolleyes: