Has anybody heard of this breed, I have been asked to look out for them at crufts,would they be on discover dogs?

Sheila.

They should be at discover dogs and should be in the breed ring on thursday. There are only a handful being shown though.

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/index.asp?section=discoverdogs/ddframe.asp?mainpage=/discoverdogs/pastoral/p858.htm

We had a maremma in our ringcraft class they are very beautiful dogs . They have a high guarding instinct ......definitely not for everyone.

We saw them at DD last year the bloke that was promoting the breed told us you can stroke this one (standing next to him ) but dont touch him (one in the fenced off area ) he will take your hand off as he is highly driven.
I was v shocked that he would bring a dog of that temperement to Crufts and actually put him into DD for the public to see.

The lady who was training her Maremma for ringcraft was really angry she had the breed for years and had more than one when I told her she said that thier were only approx 450 of the breed in the UK and that she would find out who it was.

~Roni

ohhh i love this breed! So beautifull :D

I have Maremmas and am also horrified someone would take an aggressive one on Discover Dogs. "Highly driven" is a nonsense - a Maremma of correct temperament should not show aggression unless its charges are threatened. One of mine came from Italy from working lines - she spent her early months on a hillside guarding sheep. But she is impeccably behaved at home and at shows.

In Italy there is a sheep fair every year in Abruzzo - working dogs come along with the flocks on foot from all over. These are full time guard dogs accompanying their animals - animals they would kill to protect. The show is attended by the general public - hundreds of people, children, every family pet dogs. The maremmas show no aggression to anyone. Many simply roam free keeping an eye on things, some are in the enclosures with their sheep and goats. People come up to the fence but are not threatened. Again - these dogs know the difference between a genuine threat and a member of the public showing interest.

Excusing a dog biting as "highly driven" is rubbish. It is bad temperament and there is no excuse.
Janet

I agree .

Sheepdogs are notoriously dangerous in Italy, and it is advisable NEVER to veer of footpaths into fields etc, as you are liable to attack. My partner comes from the Apulia region, and when we last went I was cornered by a farm dog and it was very frightening. Many are dumped when they are no longer of use and roam semi-wild. One is a very friendly boy who visits the villiage my partner's family comes from and he is fed and played with, but there is definitely a different attitude to animals in these very rural parts of Italy.

But there is a world of difference between going into the field of a working dog where presumably it is on duty, unaccompanied, with its sheep, and the behaviour of an "off duty" dog at a show.
I agree I certainly wouldn't approach a working Maremma in Italy without the shepherd being present (though I have met a number who have sauntered over to me and been perfectly amenable) any more than I would expect mine to allow someone to walk into my house when I was not there. However in their owner's presence and off duty they should not be aggressive.

My experience of working dogs in Italy is that this is generally the case (feral dogs not withstanding). It should certainly be the case for a dog presented at a public show representing its breed. There is no excuse for bringing a dog of poor temperament to Discover dogs. The public there quite reasonably expect the dogs to be reliable. What if a child had approached this dog without the owner noticing? It does no good at all to the breed.

I wasn't talking with reference to having the dogs at shows and their behaviour being unacceptable, I was speaking as an Italian with experience of working dogs in Italian rural areas. I was also not just talking about wandering into fields either. Many of these workings dogs when off duty in Italy can be difficult because they are not well socialised with different people, being from very isolated areas (my partners uncle for example has about 6 working dogs, and they are fear aggressive and totally lack confidence around people they are unfamiliar with), but they do their job, the job required of them, very efficiently and they are very work motivated dogs. I am speaking of a specific situation in Italy with working dogs, their behaviour and temperament when presented as a non-working animal (i.e. promoting an Italian working breed as pets) should be non-aggressive and friendly. Most Italyian wokring breeds are lovely dogs when they are brought up as pets or are well treated working dogs. My experience of sourthern Italy is that this is not always the case, and when their working life is over they are invariably dumped, and if deemed dangerous they are shot. The only reason the dog who visits my partner viliage is tolerated is because it is so friendly, but when you are faced with dangerous ex-working dogs left to roam the italian countryside you will understand what i mean.

Not sure why you seem defensive - I wasn't disagreeing with you!
However the dog being discussed here was not an isolated working dog but (presumably) a pet and a show dog - the owner was presenting it as typical of the Maremma (on show as an example of the breed to the public) yet was saying not to touch it as it would "take your hand off". To me that is a misrepresentation of the breed.

I have to confess I have only visited working dogs in Abruzzo - they were all valued as vital to the owner's livelihood and treated accordingly. Their life was tough and unsentimental but they were not mistreated. The farms I visited had dogs well into their teens so these were not turned out when they were no longer fit. Most of these working dogs were wary of us as strangers (a few youngsters were friendly) but none showed any aggression. This included a female with 3 week old puppies living with the flock.

I have also seen some feral Maremmas running loose in Abruzzo - and I was very glad I was in the car!

My partners family come from Alberona, which is a mountain village, with most of the farms being on the plains, around places like Foggia and Lucera. There are a number of farms there that are falling apart, so I am not sure how far the problems I saw with farm dogs are connected to this. Most of the farms are being abandonned as the younger generation do not want to take them over and work them, so parents die and the farms are just left (there is no proper housing market in these areas either. We have just bought a two bedroom flat there for 10,000 euros), and houses, farms and flats do tend to be left sometimes for years. There was a huge problem with farm dogs being dumped in the area, roaming the outskirts of the town, and some were shot for aggression towards people, basically because of a lack of socialisation with other people. Also, local rumours started that these dogs were breeding with the wolf population (there has been a reintroduction of wolves in the Gargano, a national park, and these wolves are spreading) and that caused a lot of fear as it seemed to coincide with attacks on sheep, which hadn't happened before, so a cull was ordered by the local mayor of the abandonned farm dogs. The only one who is tolerated is one young male dog who is exceptionally friendly, and visits the village. He is fed on scraps, and played with and people like to see him around. The local breed in this region is referred to as the abbruzzese shepherd dog, and I managed to track down a picture after doing a google search:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/110027826/1140148643052182113mkWxln

There was a proper breed website i found last year but I can't seem to find it anymore. They certainly aren't naturally aggressive, but they are dogs who like to work.

I have just realised, it is actually the same breed isn't it? I have my dumb hat on today...

:)

The dogs I have seen have been further north - in Marsica, Sirente-Velino and the Gran Sasso National Park. The sheep show I mentioned is held at Campo Imperatore each year. These regions do not seem to be so poor which may explain the difference in the treatment of the dogs. All those I met were extremely proud to show off their "Abruzzesi" (they didn't use the Maremmano bit either! :) )

Very sad that the traditional farms are closing in your area.

It is really sad. My partner's uncle is facing the fact that the land his family have worked for generations, and which have sustained them - providing everything they have ever needed - will fall into disrepair or be sold off, as his children have all moved to the Naples region. It is sad to see w ay of life disappearing.

We have one called dagmar that comes to our agility and you couldnt find a nicer natured dog. He gets on with all dogs large, small and all people and kids. what a irresponsible thing to do to take a dog like that to crufts to show people what they are like. /all breeds can have iffy temperment but this is not the norm.