Becksie our 12 week old border collie had her final vaccination yesterday and the vet said we should wait another 2 weeks before we take her out. Can anyone tell me if that is the normal amount of time to leave before the first outing. We feel it is quite a while and she is so keen to get out of the front door every time it is opened. Obviously we will wait that long if necessary as we dont want to take any chances but we also want her to got to puppy classes to start to socialise. Any comments?

Thanks

Linda

Two weeks does seem a bit on the long side. Most people say a week and our vets says 5 days. He also gives their vaccinations at 6 and 10 weeks to get them out sooner. But all vets are different and you can guarantee they all say something different than each other, just to confuse us mere mortals :-)

It seems a long time, but is necessary to provide full protection. However, you can still take her about, carfeully monitoring where she goes - visits to family & friends who have no pets or have fully protected ones are OK, visits to local shops, held in your arms - that sort of thing, just never put the pup on the floor or ground in any public place until the full 2 weeks are up. There is a newish vaccine which can be administered at 10 weeks, and allows the pups out immediately - I have discussed this with my Vet, but she doesn't feel that the data produced by the manufacutrers gives enough facts to prove tis is full effective. Quite a lot of puppy classes now allow pups as soon as they have had vaccine on the principal that all the pups are at the same stage of protection - many of these are run at vets surgeries - you could query with yours?
Gwen

Well from a personnal point of view, I do not hold with all this stuff. Pups have their jabs and I get them out & about as soon as possible. Luckily I have a good down to earth vet who thinks the same and she has her pups out & about at 7 weeks old!

I think it's better to be safe than sorry. I had to wait for a week after the final jab to take Lacey out, but when I had waited so long to have her and then all the waiting until the 12 week jab, I don't see the point in then risking anything all for the matter of a few days more. I was so anxious to get her on her feet (instead of having to carry her everywhere) but better wait a little longer than perhaps see her very ill or worse if she cought Parvo or something. I would have felt so bad if that had happened. I think 2 weeks seems a long time, but the vet probably knows best, perhaps it,s a different injection to what my puppy had.

Hi Linda

When my pup had her final vaccination, my vet told me to leave her 36 hours before taking her out...which I did.,..and have had no problems...

I used to work as a veterinary nurse, and we always advised between 24 & 36 hours...I've never heard of a vet stating 2 weeks after a final jab...

HTH

Natasha

Vaccine manufactures have their own protocol regarding when it is safe to expose pups to the outside & vets are supposed to follow these protocols, thats why it depends upon which make of vaccine as to when the pup goes out. If the vet were to say it`s ok to take pup out 3 days after vax & the manufacturer says something else & pup catches a disease the vet is incompetent/negligent. It is the vets duty to follow manufactures protocol & instuctions & pass this info on to the client. Its then up to the client to heed or ignore this info.
Christine2

All vets I have dealt with have said two weeks - in reality I have given it 7 - 10 days but it does not stop you taking them out -- the restriction is on putting them on public ground where other unvaccinated dogs and other animals may have been. My puppies have always been taken almost everywhere from day one with me.

hth

Pam n the boys

My last two dogs were vaccinated using Kavac, and I was advised one week after last vaccination. I've just had a look at a few sites having put Nobivac in search on Google(which is what my vet will use on my new bc pup), and they all say two weeks after last jab.
LynnT

New to this, anyway thought this might be of some interest. I lost a pup to parvo last year. I took it out straight after the 2nd vacc, despite my vet's recommendation to wait 10 days, and 8 days later the bloody diarrhoea started, despite intensive treatment ther pup died. The vet explained that th eway vaccines work is to give a modified version of the virus by injection, which the dog then has to develop antibodies to, and it takes 10-14 days for the pup to have full immunity.

So sorry to hear about your pup Snud, Parvo is very nasty I know. Like I said as long as you have been informed, it`s up to you whether are not to take notice.
Christine2

Hi All
My pup is getting his second vacc on Monday and my vet said to wait for 3 days before taking him out. Could the difference in times have anything to do with the area in which you live. My vet has told me that we are in a very low risk area for canine diseases (Western Isles). I wouldn't risk it if the vet says 2 weeks though.
Shirley

Hi Shirley, it depends on what the vaccine manufactures protocol is regarding their vaccine. Your vet is duty bound to follow them & if you want to see them for your self why don`t you ask him to show them to you. They come in the box the vaccines come in, you know the pamphlet that come with our drugs? It states on there when you can take your pup out. Whether you want to follow them is up to you.
Christine2

I was told a week and my pup had Nobivac My pup's 19 weeks old now and I can hardly believe the rate she's growing and changing;) I asked this very same question to a wise owl on here (Dizzy:D) since I was dying to take my girl out and I was told to wait the full 7 days- there would be plenty of time for walks later;) And I can say that yes- the wait was worthwhile although it killed me but the time does pass so quickly afterwards- although that initial wait seems like forever- hang on in there:) Enjoy your puppy:)

Stacey x x x

Stacey, my puppy (Lacey) is 18 weeks old now and I agree with all you said. The wait is really worth it when you see your healthy, happy puppy running around in the weeks to follow that never ending wait.

Debbie :)

There is a book called "Compendium of Data Sheets for Veterinary Products", published by National Office of Animal Health, NOAH for short. It lists a lot of the major drug companies & their products & data on these products. Its available from the above office & anyone can purchase it. It also contains other good info.
Interestingly, Intervet, who produce Nobivac vaccines state in their contra indications for it "following completion of the primary course vaccination, dogs should not be exposed to infection for at least 14 days"
Christine2

I've got it wrong- she had Nobivac at the breeders- then her 1st Injection was Vanguard 7 then the 2nd was Vanguard Lepto- what does it say for these Christine/ If you don't mind looking for me;)

Stacey x x x

Hi Christine
Sorry to be a pest, but could you look up mine aswell? My vet's writing is not the easiest to read but I think it says Euricon??? I would like to think that my vet is giving me all the information but Morgan's 2nd jab is on Monday so I will be asking her more in depth questions then.
thanks in advance
Shirley

Hi Shirley & Kash, Vanguard doesn`t say anything about it and Eurocan says "dogs should be healthy & not exposed to infection or severe physical exercise until full immunity has developed". Will try & post some info later but it`s very long so I`m trying to edit it first.
Christine2

I went to a seminar last year about early vaccination, and I think it was Nobivac which was being promoted as the 'early' vaccination (2nd vac. at 10 weeks and can go straight out). I will dig out the 'bumff' they handed out and post tomorrow Gwen

I have a list here of some Q & A on vaccines didn`t really know where to put it so hope you don`t mind me pinching this thread & putting it here. I also have a very long sheet of info on vacc which I`ve been trying to edit but have failed miserably cos I can`t decide which bits to leave out ( it`s not been done by me) so if any one would like it I would be happy to foward it on to you.
Christine2

Pet Vaccination - Common Questions

Q: Should I vaccinate my dog or cat every year?

A: There is absolutely no scientific justification for annual
vaccination.
According to Dr Ronald D Schultz, head of pathobiology at Wisconsin
University, and the world's most voiceful and eminent expert on
canine and
feline immunology, "once immunity to a virus exists, it persists for
years
or for the life of an animal". This is why we don't vaccinate
children
every year - because there is no need.

In America during 1997, veterinary specialists advised vaccination
only once
every three years. Now, however, specialists are advising puppy and
kitten
shots only - because not only is boosting unnecessary, but they
subject pets
to the potential risk of allergic reactions and diseases of the immune
system.

Q: I thought vaccines were safe - what are the adverse effects?

A: Inflammatory ('itis') diseases in dogs and cats are becoming
increasingly common, due largely to vaccines. Vaccines contain
modified
live viruses; formaldehyde (a cancer-causing preservative used to
embalm
corpses); mercury and aluminium salts (both toxins); serum (blood
products); and other worrying substances. The medical and veterinary
professions readily acknowledge that both humans and animals can have
allergic reactions to serum. But add all the other components, and
it's no
wonder some individuals have allergic reactions.

In addition, vaccines are often cultivated on dog and cat brains and
kidneys, on hamsters, on monkeys, and on chick embryos. If any of
these
animals' tissues are inadequately removed from the vaccine, the
patient can
have a hypersensitivity reaction to them. The
words 'hypersensitivity',
'allergy', and 'inflammation' are interchangeable. Sometimes the
hypersensitivity reaction is so severe that the patient must be
immediately
injected with adrenaline or they will die.

Because vaccines are generally injected straight into the bloodstream,
components can be carried around the body. Depending upon the
animal's
genetic predisposition, the allergic reaction could manifest as
inflammation
of the brain, inflammation of the digestive system, inflammation of
the
bones and joints - in fact, any of the many inflammatory conditions.
This
is why scientists have written and produced scientific papers that
link
vaccines in with brain damage, epilepsy, behavioural problems,
colitis,
arthritis, thyroid disease, heart failure, kidney failure, cancer,
leukaemia, diabetes and more.

The practice of cultivating vaccines on animal tissue has also been
called
into question. The Salk Polio vaccine illustrated the dangers of
this when
it was discovered that it was contaminated with a range of monkey
retroviruses. SV40, a monkey retrovirus found in the Salk vaccine,
has been
found at the cancer sites of people who received this vaccine.
Worryingly,
it has also been found at the cancer sites of their children. SV40
switches
off the part of the DNA that protects from cancer.

SIV, another monkey retrovirus, was also a contaminant in the Salk
vaccine.
SIV and HIV are closely related viruses, and independent scientists
have
traced the emergence of AIDS to mass polio vaccination in the Belgian
Congo
and amongst male homosexuals in New York who were given the vaccine
in an
attempt to protect against genital herpes (however strange this might
sound!).

Similarly, an avian (bird) retrovirus has been found in leukaemia
patients,
and it is thought that the retrovirus came from the MMR vaccine.
Distemper
and measles are virtually identical viruses, and both vaccines are
cultivated on chick embryos.

Where did parvovirus come from in the 1970s, killing thousands of
dogs?
Scientists have been quoted as saying that it was a cross-species
disease,
created by a vaccine manufacturer who cultivated the distemper
vaccine on
cats infected with feline enteritis. The first vaccine for this new
disease
was a stopgap: the feline enteritis vaccine. The disease occurred
simultaneously around the world. Naturally occurring diseases spread
slowly, but vaccine manufacturers send their products out in batches
around
the world, easily creating a worldwide epidemic.

By looking at scientific data from both human and animal-based
research, we
are able to say that vaccines are proven to cause inflammatory and
immune-mediated diseases. The UK vet Christopher Day observed that,
where
the start date of an illness in his patients is known, around 80% of
patients started to be ill within three months of vaccination. CHC
put this
theory to the test by inviting pet owners to complete a short
questionnaire.

So far, there are over 4,000 dogs in the survey, and we invite you to
take
part whether your dog is vaccinated or not, whether he is ill nor
not, and
irrespective of your own views on vaccines. We asked, if your dog is
ill,
when did he become ill in relation to the vaccine? We have been
astounded
by the results so far.

91% of Ataxia cases occurred within three months of a vaccine event

81% of dogs who had tumours at their vaccine sites, first developed
the
tumours within three months of being vaccinated

78.6% of dogs with encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) first
developed
the condition within three months of being vaccinated

73.1% of epileptic dogs first became epileptic within three months of
being
vaccinated

65.9% of dogs with colitis developed the condition within that first
three
months

64.9% of dogs with behavioural problems started to be a problem
within three
months of vaccination

61.5% of dogs developed liver failure within three months of being
vaccinated

The above figures were chosen at random from our findings to
illustrate the
principle to you: vaccines may be protecting our dogs against viral
disease,
but they are doing this at a very high price. If vaccination had no
bearing
on subsequent illness, only 25% of dogs should become ill in each
three-month period.

Q: Is CHC saying that we should leave our dogs unprotected against
horrible
diseases like distemper and parvovirus?

A: No, certainly not. In fact, we would say you should not leave
your dogs
unprotected. But you can minimise the risks.

Firstly, if you choose to continue vaccinating, you could have puppy
shots
and possibly the first year's booster, and leave it at that. This is
the
advice being given now by veterinary colleges in America.

Secondly, you could use the homoeopathic alternative instead. This
has been
used by many breeders and show people for years. Reports indicate
that
homoeopathically protected dogs are far healthier than vaccinated
dogs.
There are several scientific studies showing that the homoeopathic
alternative works. Nosodes are discussed at length in the
book, 'What Vets
Don't Tell You About Vaccines. The book is available from CHC in the
UK,
address at the end of this mail. Or from Norm and Janice Starr in
North
America, email star.pwd@s...

Vaccine manufacturers are currently trying to tell us that dogs need
annual
boosters against leptospirosis, which is a bacterin rather than a
virus.
However, many eminent scientists say that this vaccine should
actually be
withdrawn as it is not very protective, and it is the vaccine most
associated with adverse reactions.

The kennel cough virus mutates (like the flu) so you can't guarantee
permanent immunity from the vaccine. However, scientific research
has shown
that the homoeopathic nosode is more protective against kennel cough
than
the vaccine - and it's safer.

Q: My vet tells me that you are scaremongering and that I should
continue
to vaccinate every year. I don't know what to do.

A: Vets, however well-meaning, are educated in colleges that rely upon
vaccine and pharmaceutical companies for funding in the form of
sponsorship,
research grants, scholarships and bursaries. Colleges are reliant
upon them
for funding, and few people are willing to bite the hand that feeds
them.
Vets' education with regard to vaccines tends to stop beyond "do it".

The practice of medicine is a continuously evolving entity of new
knowledge
and technology. Keeping abreast of the latest information requires a
passionate commitment to continuing education. Our knowledge about
immunity
has improved greatly over the past five years. Some of the
information
coming to light about vaccines will present an ethical and economic
challenge to veterinarians. But your pet deserves to come first,
over and
above any such challenges.

If your vet says annual vaccination is necessary, ask him if he has
heard of
the research coming out of America, and the advice that annual
vaccination
is unnecessary. If he has heard of this research, he cannot dismiss
your
questions. If he has not heard of it, then he lacks the knowledge to
advise.

Finally, your dog looks at you with love and trust in his eyes, not
at a
stranger in a white coat. It is vitally important that you do as
much as
you can to understand the facts. Please don't do as I did and allow
your
dogs to die before you discover the truth. I wish you and your animals
friends many happy and healthy years together.

Catherine O'Driscoll
Canine Health Concern
PO Box 6943
Forfar
Angus
DD8 3WG

Research, reports etc are at CHC's web site
http://www.asr-svcs.dircon.co.uk/wwwchc/
List archives are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k9health

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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--- End forwarded message ---

With reference to homeopathic vaccines- I know 2 people who have lost dogs, one with parvo, and one with distemper who had used homeopathic vaccines. I for one do not believe they give adequate civer for these potentially fatal diseases.

There is no guarantee for conventional or homoeopathic vacc. I know several people who have lost a pup to parvo caused by conventional vacc myself being one of them.
Christine2

Both the dogs I mentioned had house mates which had been vaccinated conventionally, and none of them even showed any sign of disease.