I'm sorry but i need to let of some steam!!  I have just got back from taking my dogs for a walk and had a shall we say a heated discussion with a man who had a Jack Russell.  We were walking along minding our own business when this bloke appeared, my dogs started to go over ( friendly i might add) i was just about to call them back when this bloke started waving a metal pole in the air.  My heart went in my mouth, i honestly thought he was going to hit my pup.   I shouted to the bloke to stop waving the pole and that he was making the stuation worse and the reponse i got was, " i should keep them under control!" they where at least 5 metres away from him and as soon as i called them back they both came.  I called him a very stupid man and that waving a stick at any dog in that manner however gentle would get a reaction he certainly would not want. Why do people carry sticks, poles when walking dogs? I will certainly be keeping my distance from this bloke, my tummy is still feeling funny!!

Hi,
Think this man maybe reacted a bit OTT and could have handled the situation a bit better, but I must admit, I don't like strange dogs coming up to mine when they're out for their walk either (I have one who is very fearful of strange dogs and the others will back her up to protect her).  I usually ask the other owner to call their dog back, but I have had to have "words" with people that have ignored me and come out with the usual "mine are fine with other dogs".

Sarah.

Hi sarah,
I understand that not all dogs are happy to have strange dogs coming up to them but this bloke didn't give me time to reponse before the pole was in the air!! If i come across someone else with a dog that is on the lead then mine ALWAYS go on theirs. 

Responsible owners do as you do and call them back, but unfortuantely, there are a lot of irresponsible owners out there!  Maybe this owner just panicked (and over-reacted).  Hopefully you won't come across him again.

Sarah.

Ummm it's a hard one this, although he shouldn't of done what he did I also have a dog that doesn't get on with other dogs until he gets to know them and it annoys me so much the amount of people who let their dogs stroll right up to him when they can see that I've got hold of him and trying to make him ignore the dogs and do something else.  And the number who say, but he/she's friendly!

Why was he welding a metal pole? was it a walking stick to aid mobility and was frightened of being knocked over? as i dont know anyone as a rule that just walks around with a metal pole! maybe he had a hip operation and as part of his physio was gentle walking? you just don't know do you and as a responsible owner its never right in this day and age to presume anything (shame as it is)

As a rule i don't let mine off lead however gentle i perceive them to be saves all this.

If he waved the pole and said 'keep them under control!' then he felt threatened. 

We have a middle aged bloke who walks with a big stick.  His dog has been attacked twice by out of control dogs off lead requiring vet attention.  He now carries the stick and has said; he'll use it if another dog attacks his girl.  He's not a nasty bloke at all; just fed up with irresponsible owners and untrained dogs. 

I'm certainly not a irresponsible owner and my dogs are trained.  He caught us all by surprise himself included and if i had seen him sooner my dogs would have been on their leads.

.... Very tricky topic. Whilst understanding dogs with social problems may find approaching dogs intimidating, should one walk in public places in the fear of bejesus, praying that someone with a touchy dog isn't behind every bush or round every bend as your dogs skip along happily enjoying the walk and meeting other canines?

Its hard when someone has happy, socialised dogs full of the joys of meeting new friends to be shouted at shrieked at, waved at, threatened with sticks, snapped at by other dogs and have mum walking around on tenderhooks twitching and calling them back every two minutes incae the approaching owner needs 'special allowances' (I find its rarely the dogs, usually the owners, who are fearful and aggressive, left alone, the 'problem' dog has a growl and a mutter, has a stiff legged brief chat and go their seperate ways).

I know for those who work hard at taking on problem dogs and rescue dogs with aggression and fear problems its not a popular view, and whilst its thought mad to think THEY should be the ones who walk late at night or early in the morning away from any dogs to avoid other, balanced, sociable dogs who like to trot up and ask to play and chat with their dogs, maybe its not such a crazy idea.

Quite frankly, I'm tired of having my dogs yelled at, shoved away, bashed and so on, just because they come round a bend and there is someone who has a dog with a problem, walking at peak walking time, with stacks of dogs about but wanting no dog/dog contact at all. Whilst my dogs are working gundogs with a fast stop whistle and a reliable recall, I see others with friendly dogs abused and owners given mouthfuls just because - gasp - their dog might canter up to try and see a dog sometimes on a lead, sometimes not, sometimes aggresive but not muzzled and no idea it is yet another problem dog.

Di (panting and puffing and waiting to duck!)

Yes, I've always found it sad when people condemn friendly dogs for being friendly. :(

Well to give the other side of the coin here -I have a breed NOT known for being friendly with dogs they do not know, and I know that mine WILL be unfriendly if approached. They are however extremely good at recall, will walk to heel off lead if told to if I spot a dog, and I also do not walk more than 2 at a time as I find it's impossible to REALLY control more than that. So I DO take great exception to  anyone who lets their dog wander up to mine, because mine would NOT go near others. Then if one of mine reacts (after all, their space around ME is invaded then, as I will have made sure mine are right by my side), I should be seen as the one in the wrong? It would be wrong if my dogs approached others, but they do not, so I expect the courtesy to NOT be approached either.

I have 8 dogs, they go to training classes and they mix with my friend's dogs that they know, so I see no reason at all for any of them to mix with dogs they see outside. Just like I prefer not to talk to strangers either. :)

I agree JG :)

There is an old git who walks his dog around one of the walks we go on and he is a nightmare :rolleyes:

He is so abusive even if you have the girls on a lead :rolleyes: We live in a village that is surrounded by such good walks and get so annoyed we have to limit our walks because of these type of people

No need to duck from me, I agree, but then for me and my dogs the chief point of going to to the country park/recreation ground what have you is for the girls to get a free run and meet up with their canine pals and for me to chat to their like minded owners.

If I want not to meet other dogs loose (as at the moment with two girls in season) I stick to road walking.

After al if the walks are for excersise and for training good lead manners this does the job perfectly.

Di

You've made my day, No ducking from me either.

Blush I rarely make anyones day, because, like Marianne says above, I am an unsociable old cow on a walk sometimes myself ;-) I positively avoid many, not because of their dogs but because of their unbelieveably long shaggy dog stories  .....   " During the war....... " etc etc ;-) Whilst i am trying to supervise responsibly several labradors - a couple of ancients who are making for the car park and pretending they are deaf, a puppy who is trying to dig to Australia right next to picnic'ers, two teenagers who have spotted a fox in the distance and are pin-pricks, a horny retired stud dog who is trying to chat up this chaps spayed bitch ("Have you any chocolate on you? Want some....? No strings....." etc) and a new-to-it young pretender who thinks he is hilarious and closely related to Jimmy Tarbuck, whilst noone is laughing....

I can see most probably WOULDN'T want to meet us even if we brought flowers and good champagne ;-)

Di

("Have you any chocolate on you? Want some....? No strings....." etc)

ROFL - what a chat-up line!

:-D at the whole picture of you on your walk. Makes my single goldie pin-prick sound easy.

I completely agree, as the owner of a dog agressive dog, I walk him round the streets or take him in the car to an empty field. I would never dream of taking him to the country park or other places where I might meet off lead dogs. I take the collies down the country park to meet and play with other dogs. It is the responsibility of the agressive dogs owner to ensure it's kept away from other dogs. I can understand if you have a dog with a problem you may not want to always avoid other dogs, you may want it to see them in order to work through it's problems, but again this shouldn't be done in a place where dogs are off lead playing as you've no control over the situation then. I've spent months standing around street corners (never made a penny either :D ) with my boy (muzzled) letting him see other dogs on leads, rewarding him for good behaviour. I can now walk past other dogs on lead but would still never trust him off lead - or with a loose dog running past him.

Not going to have a "go" at you Di, but my Malinois (who's coming up to 6), wasn't socialised as a youngster (didn't get her til she was 9 months old) IS very fearful, she doesn't bite or snarl, but panics and flys backwards, and if she's on the lead, she has no opportunity to get away.  If you're road walking, dogs should be on a lead.  I have no problems with dogs coming up to mine when they're in the park, free running, because mine have to opportunity to get away.  It's the amount of dogs that are not on leads when walking on the road and come running up to mine that concern me! :rolleyes:  Then, yes, I will shout at the owner to call their dog back.  It's taken me over 5 years to "sort" out this girls problems and the last thing I need is an out of control dog coming barging up to mine and ruining all the hard work I've put in!

Sarah.

See Sarah you understand what I mean. :) It's not just Storm and her poor early socialisation either (and you've worked wonders with her!) my Matilda the half Malinois will panic totally and bolt if approached -she once ran all the way home including across the road as she got so scared she simply could not listen to me calling, all she could think was that she had to get back to safety. More common with Malis is that they will simply not accept other dogs and will defend themselves/us.

Know exactly what you mean.  These Belgians can be v. flighty!  Storm did exactly the same as Matilda, not long after I got her.  She got in a panic and ran all the way home (not in a direct route, but did the whole walk, with us following in the car!! )  Also, when you walk a pack together and one gets frightened, the others will try to protect it!

Sarah.

Marianne,

I'm absolutely in sympathy with you that you have a dog that reacts in this way and admire your skills in taking this on, but its not really the free running dogs fault that your dog flees..... is it? I do appreciate its not nice to have to put a dog on a lead or walk away from other dogs, but if you fear for your own dogs safety by other dogs approaching her, or the safety of other peoples dogs, might it not be less nerveracking all round to walk where others are not?

Its a hidious suggestion, I know, I know. Its a self obsessed, snobby reaction as if those of us with sociable dogs havemore 'rights' - its not that to my mind, just that a walk is for fun. Its for exercise, and toning muscles and letting off steam and relaxing. To that purpose its important that sociable dog owners are not hindered by people who want to try and create the unnatural situation of dogs not approaching other dogs to investigate?

Di

You got me slightly wrong Di. I didn't mean people should stop their dogs from going up to other dogs because I have one scared dog out of 8, I mean in general they ALL should, because nobody can ever know what kind of dogs theirs is approaching. It could be one that doesn't like other dogs or it could be one that is scared, but which will be 100 % fine as long as left alone. Mine would never be off lead if they couldn't cope with dogs and other things in the general vicinity. Other dogs can walk past, people, bikes, motorbikes (loads of those awful quad bikes were I walk) etc. I just don't want any dogs ever to actually approach mine -everyone should ASK first, it's just common courtesy. :) 4 of my others if approached would not run, they'd growl and snap. And that would be exactly the same whether they were on a lead or not. Yet at the same time they can have any dog walk past them, NO problems. Just like they can do stays in a group.

I can't argue with your lucid and sensible reasoning, and see of course that the worry in allowing dogs to mix with other dogs on walks ARE the bad penny's, but I just can't agree with you on this occasion ;-) When I walk my dogs, I find the idea of keeping them away from all other dogs tiresome and against the grain of a relaxed walk in company ;-) Of course one can debate till the cows come home that in allowing them to approach other dogs one is risking them being bitten, but weighing that against constant lead walks or a panic attack everytime another walker comes into view (and I am speaking mostly for the average pet owner who has a decent level of training but not an instant recall or a dog who gets all the dog/dog contact they crave at home) I'd be running on nervous exhaustion in some of the places I have to walk.

I have to train my workers mostly on public land too. I go there to share the land, otherwise i'd stay home in my own garden if I felt there was a 'them and us' territory thing on a public space. Even when training, dogs bowl up to us frequently to chat or throw their weight about. It comes with walking in public spaces and not owning aprivate estate - which, of course, i'd love to do, but would miss the walking friends i've made!
I think possibly because you have a nervous dog, it colours your view of it, as me having confident grinning fools, it colours mine. But i do respect your view here and of course Do control my dogs when out if a dog on a lead approaches, even if it IS tiresome sometimes ;-) However if it has no muzzle and is freerunning, then I absolutely do not stop my dogs going up to talk about the weather.
Di

Di

I know we've been down a similar road before, but I have to repeat that I've NEVER ever had anyone ask if their dogs could approach mine. It just doesn't happen with the many dog owners who use the country parks I go to. It's generally accepted that if your dog is down the park and off lead then it's fine. I love my trips down there, the dogs get to meet and play with so many other dogs and we've never had a bad experience.

It is interesting though the different views of people with different dogs. Years ago I used to take the borzois down the country park (not the ones I have now) and shout ahead asking people to call their dogs back - it was no fun for any of us. Now I've realised that it's much more relaxing to walk the 'zois where they won't meet other dogs and the collies where they will - happy dogs all round :)

I know we've been down a similar road before, but I have to repeat that I've NEVER ever had anyone ask if their dogs could approach mine.

I've hardly ever had a problem here in fact, because when people see me calling mine to heel the moment I spot another dog most take the hint. :) Some even say thank you.

To be honest you ahve every rigth on a road to complain about a dog being off lead (unless it is a working dog doing it's job) and I woudl complain long and loud to the Council that they get the Dog warden to patrol where there are a lot of offenders.

Oh no Sarah, I am absolutely not talking about road walking. ALL dogs should be on leads by roads - period. I am talking about areas for freerunning such as parks, country parks, the downs, commons and so on. Absolutely NOT anywhere near a road or on a road.... goodness no.

Di

just saw a really scary incident while i was at traffic lights. two teenagers were running across as the lights were about to change with their dog OFF LEAD. this was a busy main road in LONDON and they only just stopped the dog being squished on the other side - they didn't put the lead on even then tho. this behaviour really annoys me.
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

No ducking from me either. When my dog was recovering from surgery I wanted to avoid any possibility of meeting off-lead dogs so I avoided the areas where they went. I assumed that if I went to the local dog park that we would get 4-legged visitors.

Ditto for me with bitches coming in or going out of season, recovering from ops or if I have a certain dog who comes to lodge now and again who can be bad tempered on occasio with other dogs.

I take myself into no mans land despite the 20 minutes drive each way ;-)
Di

I suppose another view is that if you have a dog, friendly or not, you might enjoy walking in the park or whatever as opposed to along the road.  Many people get dogs to accompany them on their walks, but maybe sometimes the dog doesn't turn out as friendly as they hope.

My dog is very friendly and as a youngster did approach all and sundry.  She now knows if I call her she should be wary and wait.  It would be nice however not to have to worry is another dog appears. I can understand the man in question though as my dog has been attacked a few times by dogs approaching us and not being under control.  I suppose road walking if you dog is unfriendly maybe the best answer.

Your so right Di, and you try getting out of the way when you are on a canal towpath on a sunny Saturday. Why do these people walk in these places when they know full well that there will be partying, happy and friendly dogs out to have some fun?

Completely agree Di - it's NORMAL dog behaviour to greet other dogs - if your dog cannot cope with this then don't walk them where other dogs are usually let off. My lot are fine with others and I generally only walk them in pairs as I do realise that any more could be quite scary for some folk ( I have BSD mostly Groens ). I think it' really important that youngsters are allowed to socialise with a wide range of other dogs so that they learn the 'social rules' - those that are always put on a lead when another dog comes into view are - in my opinion - most likely to have problems later on.

Yvonne

My Groenendael bitch was very dog orietated, adn I was know to shout to folk that I was leaving to get her attention, as then she woudl follow if she thought I might leave without her, otherwise she found dogs irresistible, but loved being chased, so would zoom up playbow and get them to chase her.

My current bred are sociable, but after saying hello usually carry on mooching, unless they are youngsters meeting another playful youngster, tehn they invite a game.

Unfortunatley you have proberbly got the brunt of this gentleman meeting previously untrained dogs, yes he over-reacted but who is to know which dogs are going to re-call and which are going to knock you over or hurt the dog you have.

I dare say it was not nice for either of you concerned. But I can see both sides.

I once met a man who over-reacted due to previous attacks his dog had had, my girl is extremely gentle and wonderful with other dogs and was walking to heal on a country path with myself and a friend, I was happily chatting to her with my off lead girl at my side, when I kept hearing these little stones landing near us, I looked up to find a rather large 6ft man 200 yards infront throwing stones at my dog.

Well as you can guess as big as he was I let rip and his only defence was that his dog was always being attacked (as if mine looked aggressive :rolleyes:) so he wanted to keep my dog away. After a rather large piece of my mind he walked off, with his dog cowering behind him.

I am now always just as wary of people as well as other dogs, you never know who or what you may meet.

No need to duck from me either, Di :)

My three recently met a young EBT male and they were all having a happy time playing with him.  Then the youngster over stepped the mark with my eldest male and he swiftly told the youngster to mind his p's & q's.  The owner was absolutely delighted with this because he found that people just weren't letting their dogs interact fully with his and he was very pleased that his dog had just been given a timely lesson in canine manners.  The owner told me he wished he could have more such experiences, for the sake of his dog's social skills.  It was a joy to meet and have a chat with this man :)

Pleasure to read that post. I always find that a dog who gives my youngsters a growl or a kicked backside do more in 10 seconds for their understanding of social situaions than I can ever recreate under artifical situations.

Of course I open myself to the 'so you like your dog attacked do you?' posts. No, absolutely not, but I find that for every REALLY aggressive dog there are 100, 1000 that are just undersocialised, not looking for a fight, just needing a bit of a chance to learn about other dogs and have time to grasp situations before being grabbed by their owners and dragged off with a kick and a mutter and a mope about 'too many dogs, one against five scaring anyone' or some such idiocy with 5 smiling faces and their dog creating hell!

Di

I can understand why someone would carry a stick to protect themselves, it hasn't happened very often but the few times a dog has ran over to us on lead i have been petrified. A lab came bolting over a few weeks ago and started growling and jumping on my dogs back, luckily Tyler didn't respond and eventually the dog ran off to the owner who was lamely calling it. My husband was with that time had i been on my own and the situation turned nasty what would i have done?

My neighbour always advised me to carry a stick with me and I wasn't happy to do so. I posted some time ago about 2 agressive dogs at the end of our lane - I had a lot of good advice at the time.  I did report it to the police several times and I have no idea whether they actually spoke to the owner or not.  However that was all resolved when the postman was bitten and the owner had to get rid of the agressive male.  Sad that all the warning did no good and someone had to get bitten before anything was done.  My neighbour carried a stick (for support) and used it when his dog (on the lead) was attacked by a loose dog.  The owner came up and threw the stick over the sea wall

Having been on both sides I can see why one might feel the need for a stick.  I carried a hockey stick with the end sharpened to a point for a while due to my neighbour's +110 lb. dog which constantly ran loose and threatened me (not my dog) on several occasions.  This after numerous complaints by our whole village to the owner, who did nothing till I called the police.  And after my poochie girl was attacked four times, twice with the dogs' owners present, I became very leery of loose dogs and even dogs with owners in attendance.  My feeling now is, unless I know the owner or the dog, I don't trust either. 

I actually go Nordic Walking when I walk my dogs (burns off 50% more calories than just walking) so I have 2 sticks!! Many people round where I live walk with sticks so anyone carrying a stick is not unusual in my book. A stick is very handy for placing between 2 dogs who are getting more excited or more challenging to each other and is just enough to distract them.
Becky

I was really glad a few weeks ago that a man had a stick because my dog went for another dog who had been snarling at her.  usually she would not rise to it and would ignore the other dog or run away but this time it was like the red mist descended and she flew at it.  I was totally horrified and asked the man with the walking stick to hit my dog to get her off the other one.  never have I been so glad to see anyone carrying a stick.

I have been on both sides too, as a kid I had Afghans, one of which hated other dogs so he was lead walked in areas where there weren't any other dogs.  Fortunately when he was let off the lead he was fine with other dogs, but mum always told me if another dog approached and a fight started just let go of his lead and let them get on with it, there is no point trying to break up a fight it usually only fuels it and most dog fights are over within minutes and are mostly just noise anyway (cant say the same for bitch fights though).  Now I have my own boys I have Fagan who is good as gold and cant really be bothered with other dogs and Alf who is bitch and castrated male obsessed :rolleyes: I have to really look in the distance for other dogs to see if they are on lead or not to grab him before he sees them.  I am always greatful for dogs/bitches who tell him off for going round them it knocks him down a peg or two, its not ever a nasty attack just a telling off which usually does the trick.

It does annoy me when people with dog aggressive dogs walk in popular dog walking areas because it isnt always possible to stop your dog going up to theres, especially if you have dogs like mine who range miles ahead of you :rolleyes: they do have a good recall but unfortunately Alf likes to say hello to other dogs before coming back

Why do you LET  your dogs range miles ahead of you, no wonder you cannot stop them from approaching another dog. I have a dog aggressive dog and he is always walked on lead. I don't drive so am restricted to taking him for walks in my locality. We have a walk which follows the river and most people walk their dogs along it. I have to go along it too for some of the way as I have to avoid places with too many people too. I have no choice (except to not walk him at all) than to take certain routes. I try to go at the least busy times of day, but chances are I will meet someone. He is okay passing another dog on lead at a distance, but he cannot cope with other dogs running up to him. All I ask is that owners of off lead dogs call them back before they get to mine. If recall has been taught properly they will go back. He is perfect in recall but I cannot let him off lead because of his stranger aggression. Please do not condem those of us with dog aggressive dogs to midnight walks when all it takes is a good recall and not letting your dog go too far away from you so that it will not come back. A dog that is too far away to be recalled is out of control.

Just this evening whilst i was walking my 4 month old pup molly, off lead in the woods opposite where i live, a rottweiler came bounding up to us out of nowhere, Molly was fine wagging her tail, just wanted to say hello the owner, after calling her to no avail, came running up saying "shes only a baby and shes pregnant so dont worry she wont hurt", with this the dog was standing over Molly growling and snarling which frightened the life out of her,the owner grabbed over her and said "i cant believe she just did that, we have 5 dogs and 8 children" god knows what that has to do with it???

I suppose there will always be these people that walk their unsocialised dogs off lead and unfortunately we will just always have to be on our guard!

>Why do you LET  your dogs range miles ahead of you

they are Setters and that is what Setters do :rolleyes: it does rather depend on the walk, if we are say on a tow path then they stay quite close as its quite a boring walk for them (either that or they are in the water) we were over the common today and they stay close (ish) until they see the river and then they are gone :rolleyes: its mostly forest/country walks that they range as they hunt and we dont see many other dogs, I do call them back occasionally to get them closer but they soon disapear again and why should I ruin their fun when they arent doing any harm ?  My boys have both been taught recall properly, but unfortunately Alf is very teenage and his recall isnt instant which is why I always walk away from roads and keep him close when there are other dogs about. 

I generally chose to walk in dog free places as it is less hassle, I live in the sticks so it is easy to do but I have to be careful during shooting seasons, pheasant rearing etc so often drive into the town to the common or to one of the few forrestry commison areas we have around here.

>we have 5 dogs and 8 children

how awful and the dog being pregnant too :(

this is an argument that will never be settled, I have been on both sides of it, my dog is very friendly but plays like a freight train so i recall him when i see a strange dog and take it from there, but when he was young i let him run up to strange dogs and he got bitten. you live and learn.

my pup is nervous of other dogs and in an attempt to socialise her with other dogs I do not stay entirely away from dog walking areas.
I do not take her up the park, as I feel it would be unfair on other dogs and their owners for me to expect them to keep their dogs with them whilst we walk.

If someone is approaching me with their dog - on or off lead - I will ask if there dog is friendly - if it is I will stop and, if my dog chooses, she can have a sniff.
If I see a dog charging towards my dog with no owner in sight, I do get very cross!!

I am putting a lot of effort into ensuring positive encounters with my puppy and the last thing she needs is a dog charginbg at her at full bolt with no owner around to control it - fortunately most people are very understanding and will stop and talk, or if my pup looks too stressed they will keep going.

I'd hate to be a twilight walker, but equally I remain cautious about charging dogs and also remain realistic about the potential dangers of a scared dog.

I would NEVER carry a weapon of any description to harm another dog, but then my dog has never been attacked. Maybe this person has had an awful experience before hence the 'weapon' - still that doesn't make his actions ok.