Hi does anyone have a contract that they give to the bitch owners ? if so please could i see a copy if you dont mind regards dawn

sadly contracts don't hold a lot of water in this country currently, Dawn. You can make up a sheet of the terms by which you are offering your dog to them, and what you will offer if no puppies occur and so on, but a signed and sealed contract is not really worth the paper it is written on. Its important you do put in writing your terms and conditions of stud, but its more 'asking' them to complyand laying out your responsibilties as you see them,  rather than insisting.

Until there are a few more test cases in court which highlight various issues in this field and we can see how courts or magistrates would rule, you can bet your boots they will agree with your contract, sign it and take a copy away, but if there is a real problem, a contract won't allow you to be any more confident of winning if it goes to the legal stage than just a verbal contract. It will HELP to make your case stronger in the bitch owners eyes but it won't actually in the eyes of the law. Each case would still be taken on its legal merits.

Di

contract won't allow you to be any more confident of winning if it goes to the legal stage than just a verbal contract

Hmmmmm no sure if I 100% agree with the Di. :-)  sorry ..Don't mean to discredit you but I have to say I support contracts that demonstrate intentions for most things in life and they generally are more helpful than harmful.

Stud contracts are slightly different to a puppy sale where I think most people agree the issues with these.

A stud contract laid out shows the intentions of the stud dog owner and the terms of service .

You have to remember that civil law is judged on the balance of probability , who is believed more.  It only takes 51% doubt or belief. A stud contract that is laid out correctly and followed through will certainly have weight. Depending on the issue being challenged  of course.

Stud work is a contract of Service.

An example where a stud contract is vital is if a bitch owner thinks that they are entitled to a second mating with a bitch and try to bring another because the misinterpretated the wording " free return".. it happens a lot. :-)

Just an example.

I'm very happy to stand corrected or disagreed with, Blue ;-) I am admittedly going by advice given by my solicitor and my company solicitor which is a couple of years old now. Maybe these things have taken on more worth in the interim period. I can quite believe they would as we move to a more 'have to cover your back' society like North America.

I must admit I have never used a stud contract, nor have I ever laid out my terms and conditions in writing other than a note in the 'comment' box on my stud reciept pad saying 'free return on next convenient season for this bitch if no puppies occur', its always been a verbal thing up to now, and in around 100 bitches maybe more through my own sires and sires I handle for others, thankfully never had a problem as I am fairly clear and straightforward about it - BUT - that was until recently, when, for the first time, I did have a dispute.
Briefly, one boy is coming up 11. He had three good litters last year, reduced use obviously due to his age and recently discovered Late onset PRA Carrier status. I used him myself on one of my own girls and he had a litter of 8 whelped Oct 05'. Someone then used him Jan, the bitch missed and all hell let loose ;-) Suddenly despite having a younger dog here to use (along with every other dog in the country) her choice was this dog in full knowledge of his age. Of course he was the bee's knees then suiddenly an ancient infertile old crock I should be ashamed to stand at stud ;-) (This old crock won a huge class at Crufts just 9 months before against dogs 8 years younger than him ;-) )

Anyway, she wanted her stud fee back, had asked 'experts' who said all stud dogs should be retired around 8 years of age (hmmmm) and I was mortified. So, a strongly worded letter thankfully set her straight, but it could have escalated as I wouldn't have backed down. So yes, from there on in I am thinking a terms and conditions page might be a good idea. Especially if knowledge is now that they ARE worth using and DO hold water.

Di

People often forget that verbally or in writing that we enter into contracts everyday , some are implied and some are laid down in writing.

I think people know their rights now more than ever , even if their idea of what is right is actually wrong :-)

Over controlling written contracts would be a waste of time as it would paint a negaitive picture but a well structure and very fair one says a whole different ball game to a decision maker :-)

A dog I bred and hadled at stud had 4 bitches last year at 6 1/2 to 7 years of age (a maiden until then).

I tried a 7 year old dog on two of my bitches and they both missed, and he had only sired one litter previously.  His woner did not take a fee, though I had paid her traveling expenses the first time (she was considering taking a pup in lieu of fee depending on what was born).

Males in my breed unless of a particulary compatible or new bloodline often don't get the opportunity to sire a litter at all, or often as mature adults, and the majority wouldn't sire more than a handful of litters in their lives (often well spaced), and are usually used until about 10 years old, or until they miss to more than one bitch on the trot when bitch owners decide not to risk it.

Barbara, absolutely Age is meaningless as a guide and its down to performance and results that count! In this case the dog in question has sired many hundreds of puppies through 1.5 - 9.5 years of age. Then at 9 I found him a carrier and reduced his stud work as I required further health tests from the bitches that I would accept to him. All the bitches he had last year he produced from. Then my own girl, who carried 8 although we lost a couple. Absolutely not a dog to retire willingly ;-)

Di

A well structured contract signed and agreed by both parties is very important, although I have to say that not everyone can write a contract.  If the content of the contract is vitally important I would have it written by a solicitor.  If it is something that I know I would have no control over anyway then I would not enter into the contract in the first place.

Stud contracts are as important as any other if you need to state terms which must be agreed and understood by both parties and the contract and copy signed by both parties.  That done if someone wanted to bring a different bitch to my stud after the original bitch had missed or produced only one live puppy, after having been mated to my stud, I would refuse because the contract signed and understood by both parties would clearly state that only the original bitch should be returned for a repeat mating.  A new bitch could be brought under a new agreement.

I use that as an example there are other things you would might want to set out also.

Just my opinion

Don't know about the legal side but with racehorses you have a 'Nomination Agreement' that lays out the terms of that nomination. So you sign to say you have 'bought' a nomination and that you will send a mare (usually named but you can alter the mare if you discuss with the stud) and that you agree to the terms, (usually 1st Oct terms ie. fee payable when mare is confirmed in foal no later than 1st Oct of the year bred.)

What i am trying to say is, i don't know if the terms set out would hold more water legally if the service of the stud dog was being 'bought' and you understood terms and conditions of that rather than the usual 'understanding' of using a dog. With the horses once you have signed the form you have to send a mare. An example of a horse nomination form is on www.bearstonestud.co.uk and look down the tool bar or click on a stallion. BTW their horse Firebreak is one we bred!

hope this may be helpful

Helen