Ok I have a Halti which does pull up into her eyes, although not too badly and I have tried a Gencon which she nearly strangled herself on and was left wheezing and gasping.  So can anyone reccomend a headcollar for a very strong GSD x Rottie.  She walks beautifully most the time until something upsets her like a cat etc or she takes a dislike to a certain dog.
I want a headcollar that doesn't ride up and squeeze her eyes shut and that doesn't pull tight round her throat. Anyone got any reccomendations please?

Bev

She walks beautifully most the time until something upsets her like a cat etc or she takes a dislike to a certain dog.

When I walk my neighbour's rescue, big, strong and of similar mix, she behaves in exactly the same way except she can't stand children, cats or other dogs!  I'm only 5'2" as opposed to her large owner and can't just hold onto the lead like he does. 

When I take her out I have to concentrate 100% all the time and if I see something that would affect her, I anticipate and start training to keep her attention with me.  I only get involved when her owner is unwell, but even my part time training has made her much more tolerant of things that would have made her pull (or snap) before.  She will now stay in a down, quite relaxed, while children go past on skateboards.  Might be worth a try.

Just a general question please from someone who has never used a head collar/harness etc? 
If they are used for temporary control while training a large dog, why aren't there loads of second hand ones for sale once the dogs are trained?  

I suppose because they get grubby, worn and soiled.

Probably because we all hang on to them in case the dog reverts! :D  Seriously though Val, it is probably because like most collars people don't usually think of selling them on.  Giving them to someone you know is much more likely.  The only ones you see for sale are generally ones that haven't worked out and are in almost new condition.

I stick my collars (not leather!) in the washing machine JG! :) 
Thanks Annie ns, but head collars and harnesses are sooo expensive - well they are to me who is tight :D !  I've picked up haltis at car boots for a few pence and given them to groomers/clients who I thought might find them useful, but I've never seen any of the other head collars or harnesses mentioned here.  I just wondered if owners find them the easy option and always use them rather than train the dog to walk comfortably and safely.

i brought my dogs harnesses as they were awful on lead but i never got on with them, the dog just would not stay still long enough to get them on so i went back to collar and lead and with a little more time and patiance they are fine on lead. the harnesses just sit on the coat rack gatering dust.

Yes they are certainly an easy option but I'm only intending to use mine until young Angus gets the idea that he is supposed to walk quietly and calmly by my side - of course that could be for the next 12-14 years! :D

QUOTE[I just wondered if owners find them the easy option and always use them rather than train the dog to walk comfortably and safely.]

I have trained dogs of all breeds for 32 years now and everyone has walked calmly by my side.  perhaps I've just been lucky but this girl of mine is setting me some new challenges.  She is trained to walk nicely does lovely, sits, stays, downs, recalls and retrieves, but on the lead if something distracts her like a cat or a dog she takes a dislike to or lorries and motorbikes she suddenly becomes deaf and forgets everything.  But she is only just 10 months old so I hope with the headcollar not allowing her to pit her strength against me to be able to teach her to listen at ALL times much quicker. It allows me to use distraction tecniques instead of just trying to hang on.  To me it is definatly not a substitute for good training but an aid to help me along the way.

Bev

my dog is very comfy in his headcollar,when i dont want him to pull, & my very noise sensitive bitch is actually reasssured by the feeling of the headcollar around her noise if she hears a noise.

bearing in mind they all have competed (some better than others) in obedience, i dont see them as a "cop out" of training.
i think they are safer than a collar when walking multiple high drive dogs near roads ,around country fairs etc.

id much prefer to have a headcollar or harness,than have to "nag,check,nag" all the time

my vizsla is very good at walking to heel etc..
EXCEPT when she gets worked up about another dog and i then have control of the bitting end which i find is my safest option.
alot of people use headcollars instead of training, and use them not because the dogs walk perfectly to heel but instead find that the dog can not pull as much
anna

they dont train a dog not to pull,imo,
they stop the dog from pulling so hard. they arent a training aid,but a control aid.

however id much prefer to see them used than people yanking heads off in the name of training on choke chains,

Because they are a management device, they don't actually train the dog to walk nicely when they're not being used, only when they are being used.  So the people end up keeping them and using them always!

I do not use headcollars for training, I use them when entering situations or going somewhere I know there will be something to set her off.
At dog training club she does not wear one and her heel work is fantastic, and when i do training on walks the Halti as i have at the moment is removed.
When using the headcollar I always have 2 leads one to her normal collar and one to the headcollar.  The one to the headcollar is only bought into play when she sees a cat or something that upsets her and she fails to listen to me.  That then gives me the immeadiate control to start using distraction methods and she listens again.

Bev

Thanks for the replies.  I had no idea because I've never used one.  There's always something to learn about dogs. ;)
So if they are a 'management device' and are used forever, are you saying that some dogs can never be taught to walk to heel on a normal lead, or to not chase inappropriate things?  I've not been involved with 'official' dog training for 20+ years, but never came across a dog that couldn't be trained to walk safely on a lead.  Now OFF lead and distant control - that's another matter! :D  Or are you saying that people are chosing to live with dogs that they can't train or control?

It's a safety measure. I know that, if a rabbit, squirrel or cat (they stopped in surprise at the muntjac yesterday!) runs across our path, if the boys lunge after it I won't be able to hold them, having twisted my back doing just that recently. Headcollars give me the security of knowing that they won't cause an accident. :)

Mine must just be thick, slow or both!  Even off the lead they look at me and say 'Please can I go and chase that seagull?'  And I either say 'Go play' or 'Leave it'! :rolleyes:
If a rabbit comes onto the path, they just wag at it.

Obviously aren't Malamutes then :rolleyes:

They would appear to be 'thick' Rough Collies! :rolleyes:  I do always say to puppy people that if they can't manage a Rough Collie then they can manage anything!  I've walked up to 4 at a time and do no formal training at all, just a few basic commands (leave is always one of the first because I don't move stuff indoors, even when I have puppies around) and good manners.

I used to breed and show and work obedience with Rough Collies years ago when my husband was alive, and I have to say they were one of the easiest breeds to teach to walk to heel without pulling and never had that chase thing built in them.  A few no's if they got interested and they were sorted for life. They are intelligent like the border collie in a much more laid back way, so I can understand how your dogs look as if to ask and don't chase.
But many other breeds and cross breeds are much stronger in strength and will and need far more work for much longer to get to the same point when it comes to getting over excited about a chase.
For safety to dogs and owners of especially large strong breeds a headcollar can save the unexpected becoming a problem with maybe injury, however well trained they are.

Mine know that rabbits are made of dinner! ;) :D

Love it!! 
Mine had raw mackrel for supper the other evening and I DID wonder what they'd do when I saw a dead (fresh) fish on the beach in the morning.  They went to investigate, I said 'leave' and called them back, when they got a piece of homebaked liver treat.  They seemed happy enough with that. :)

Yes, rabbits, hares, pheasants, squirrels ..well anything that runs away really :D

my  obedience C dog (3/4s qualified for CH C) wears a headcollar when walking near roads . errr i do have a trained dog!!!!???? dont i? or how does each week he do 5mins = of competition HW at 3 different paces, _with no talking_,including positions on the move, do 6 position DC at 10-20 paces away,etc etc, oh and 10 minute out of sight down stays. ohhh he must be really badly trained for a dog just under 3.

That's brilliant Michelle.  Mine couldn't even begin to do any of that!  If he concentrates on your pace when doing heel work, why don't you do the same near roads?  As you can tell, obedience really isn't my thing, although I did manage prebeginners and beginners with an afghan many years ago!! :rolleyes:

cos i want him to relax & chill out on his walks cdont want him doing hw all the time,ewe would both go nuts!!!!

pre bees & beg with a AFGHAN is bloody good BTW!!!!

i have two friends with rough pups that are going to be competing!!!!!

:D
Roughs are easy to train.  I hope your friends Rough pups are sparky enough.  I have one who is on her toes, waiting all the time to be told what to do next and another who is a couch potato, and while obedient, does everything in slow motion! ;)

well the one ive seen is sparky. the owner has got two shelties to C only & really wanted to try a rough. shes about 5 months now, & just stunning, shes got tons of drive & attitude & is totally into her food,also got a really nice natural retrieve.
shes really blonde & fluffy too,just gorg.
i will let you know how she does if you like.

i cant remeber her affix,but its a well known show line,beginning with L ? from midlands somewhere,derby???? maybe,

the other one,i havent seen (only piccies) but her owner has had roughs (&  ob competed) for years.

Ladnar or Lanlin??  A retrieve at 5 months is a good sign for the future in a Rough!  Mine wouldn't even dream of putting anything in their mouths, unless it's someone elses ball! :D  Just like they play with gundogs on the beach, who all run for all their worth through water.  Mine walk like ladies around the edge without getting their feet wet!!

ohhh not sure ladnar i think not 100% sure though. shes a lovely pup,lovely head ,gorg ears

I'd love to know how they do.  Always interested in anything Rough???!!!

I have walked up to 6 Elkhounds without using head collars, but al were well mannered lead trained dogs, but you do need to get the leave command out quick if a cat runs right across the apth(no probelmn with ones just siting about as they are cat freindly).

I think it does depend on the breed adn the persons strength and heatlh. 

I know I am strong enough to hold my lot, and tyey know it so don't play me up, and tend not to be reactive.

I did use one on my very reactive Belgian Shepherd, as I was plenty stron g enough to maage a 50 pound dog, but she tended to jerk for any of a thousand reasons making walking ehr a pain, especiallyw tih a pushchair.  On the other hand I could comfortably walk two Elkhounds with a pushchar without risk of it being pulled over.

I think even with obedient dogs their reactions can be too quick for their owners to get the commands in.

Thats exactly why I use a headcollar Brainless, when walking with a pushchair or with my toddler in tow as I wouldn't be able to react quick enough with liam being there!

Hi Bev,
I recommend the Dogmatic (leather).  It doesn't ride up into the eyes like others do and will control the most unruly of dogs   I've tried all the rest and this is the only one that seems to work properly.  Yes, they cost more than the rest, but I feel that it's well worth that bit extra.

Sarah.

Hi,

I also think the dogmatic is brilliant.  The material ones they do now aren't much different than others in price.  As far as I know you can only get them online though.

dogmatic - brilliant and best £17 i ever spent on my dog

Thanks will take a look at the Dogmatic but keep any other suggestions coming.
I am working on distraction at the moment and when she is working in obedience she is fantastic.  I try and incorporate it in our walks too but when something really gets her going nothing seems to distract her not commands, walking off the other way or tasty liver.  Still she is only 10 months so are taking this very seriously as want to try to nip it in the bud now.  A good headcollar makes it easier for me to bring the distraction into play though as it does not give her the strength to pit against me allowing me to work on different things.

Bev

Hi
Look up Canny Collar web site, they even have a video showing a Rottie wearing one, we have now got one and find it really good as it does not ride up over eyes or pull round the neck.
carol:rolleyes:

The Canny Collar is good - doesn't ride up into eyes and the part that goes round the neck is basically a non-tightening flat collar.  The only problem with it is that I don't think it gives you as much control as some of the other head collars because the "locus" of control is the neck, not the whole head as with other collars.  But if you're only using it for occasionally when you see a rabbit or cat, then it should be fine.

To all of you who have a dogmatic, could you tell me whether you use the leather, synthetic leather or material one please - I'm planning to get one and can't make up my mind which type to get. :)

I don't want one that controls from the neck. She wears a normal collar with a lead also attached but with her weight and power soon chokes herself and ends up wheezing when she does pull forward and the strain is taken on her neck.  The Halti would be perfect if it didn't rub up into her eyes.

Bev

hi bevb, i have'nt read the whole thread but though i would just let you know i have a 10 month old gsd cross rottie (more gsd) and i have been using the gentle leader for the last few months with no problems, except she has grown out of the medium size and i now need to buy the large!

i use a material one just because i thought it would be softer on her muzzle

I use the leather as I found the material one rubbed his nose.

I have leather ones for my Ridgebacks and they are great!  I did use saddle soap to soften them a bit before I used them, though.

I use the material one as my girl is a Dobe and has very fine hair around her muzzle I was worried about the leather one rubbing and also being heavier.  I have found the material one to be great - but I'm sure if you take the time first to oil and then saddle soap the leather one it will be pretty soft.

Karen

I use the material one on my Leo and it doesn't mark his nose at all. 

I use the leather one. Great for control and face comfort but I found it was rubbing the underside of Zac's (GSD) muzzle when he had one of his 'fits' in traffic. I must admit that, when he flips, he really goes for it with his whole body but it wouldn't be  problem under normal usage - but then what is normal usage for a headcollar? 

Because of this problem I have just ordered the 'stop-pull' harness recommended by another poster.  I will report back how we go.

as you say he "flips", when my dog panicks in traffic she can easily get out of a harness - including the stop pull kind so if you are using this, please use a double ended lead - just for security
anna

Thanks everyone for your feedback :).  I think I will probably try the material one as my dog is only 11 months old and it will be lighter for him.